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How many times does this have to be proven to people before they get the idea that an embryo is a unique organism with it's own DNA and it's growing and expanding based on it's unique patterns. Science has proven that the moment the egg dies and a zygote is produced that is a unique life form. That is life. To end a life for the purpose of making your own more sustainable is murder. Many women feel very guilty after getting an abortion for a reason. What's even worse is that they feel that is is the best or only choice they have. It means they feel overwhelmed or that they feel they don't have the support they need.

As a society we need to step up to start supporting single moms and dads and start ending the behaviors that put children in these situations. The days of two parent families with a stay at home mom or dad are decreasing to an ever increasing number of single parent families. Most of them single moms. That's not cool.

Increasing the number of abortions isn't going to help the problem either. It's just going to make sex more of a one night no penalty affair and it's going to result in even more unplanned pregnancies. In a way you could say it's going to make the problem much much worse.

The solution is to stop and take a serious cross check of our sexual values as a society and start moving towards much better sex education for our kids and a more responsibility oriented approach for teens becoming sexually active.

They teach kids how to use a condom in grade 2 in Australia and it works pretty well for driving the message home that sex is a totally normal and functional means of everyday life but you need to put responsibility first.

   

Thats because it isn't. Biologically its the next stage for sperm/egg cells. Science has simply showed most stages along the way and the fact is that some 50% of fertilized eggs self abort or terminate for one reason or another. Biology says that it isn't life. It isn't anymore life then any of your other cells. It has the potential to generate a self sustaining organism in the long run assuming the mother stays alive.

That also assumes she wants to pursue that course.

Your assement that women get abortions because they believe its their only course is wrong.

Pro-Choice groups routinely make all choices readily available with full literature and support.

Pro-life groups provide only one and they lie about the other choices. The worst among them even lie about adoption in misguided beliefs that women should raise their children regardless of any other considerations.

They routinely lie about health risks both physically and mentally then produce stats claiming the amount of abortions far exceeds cases of said health effects.

Pro-choice groups are almost universally led by women with actual knowledge.

Pro-Life groups are very often fronted by men with a religous agenda.



We do.

What about rape? What about risk to a womens life? Where do you stand on that?

Some pro-lifers state that abortion is murder regardless. Even if it means they will likely die women shall carry their fetus to term and "their gods will be done".

Where do you sit?

   

It's actually kind of funny that we are talking about this when a play I am helping perform as a guy eating faces in it. It's a comedic version of Macbeth. And the curse of Macbeth, I fucking hate it.

   

Do you really hate it?

Don't you mean that its actually Legen (wait for it) dary?

   

notice how I choose to talk about zygotes and embryos. A fertilized egg is not a unique DNA organism at that point the DNA has not fused to make a new pattern. We have no debate here that a fertilized egg is not life. People however when presenting the information often misunderstand or twist the facts to imply that zygote = egg and that is NOT the case. Be very careful when you read any pro-choice materiel that they often have the misconception that all fertilized eggs are the same as an embryo that has not formed.



Well you asked and frankly I know your an intelligent person based on what I've seen you post so I'll give you an answer.

I think that there are some rare (very rare) circumstances that do call for an investigation of how an abortion would affect a woman's medical situation. However I also have a firm belief that in the case of any abortion the least violent method should be taken. Abortions in any case should always be as humane as possible.

Rape is honestly a case I'm still on the fence about. The baby has done nothing wrong and in 99% of cases won't threaten the health of the mother. I find it hard to justify killing an innocent life simply because it was the product of rape. But the mother also has the right to not want to go through 9 months of pregnancy after she has just been the victim of a horrible horrible crime. I think Rape is a lose lose situation all around the table and I can honestly say that I'm not sure if I could advocate abortion or not in that situation.



I can assure you I advocate sexual responsibility and not total and unwavering blind obsession with life at all costs.

   

Oh the play is legendary, no doubt. But shit keeps happening. One of our cast members had to go in for major lung surgery. We had a 6 hour tech rehearsal to program all the lights, those were lost by the next morning, completely erased. The smoke alarm went off TWICE in todays show. Fucking insanity.

   

Face eating, surgery, fire alarm panic and a tad of macbeth all in one show. Where do I get tickets.

   

Well in the show it's only the face eating... seriously though the play is so funny. Everything from Lady macbeth turning into a man, to a murderer never seeing a horse and calling it a four legged meat table or demon dog with a triangle head to fleance the son of banquo being a retarded monkey boy. Napoleon, Caeser and Hitler make an appearance too, we have it all.

   

What about fire? We all saw that episode where Data asks the doctor what is life and they repeat (the 80s version anyway) that fire meets the criteria.

With regards to things like plant life callus is as much life as a seedling. In fact our understanding of life is enhanced each year. Proteins previous thought to be a particle of life can be a life of its own as in Prions. Self-replication is a requisite for life and we have learned that RNA can do that.



Define humane though. My job required me to examine D&Cs for completion. That entailed the identification of enough visible material to confirm abortion. All ways are equally humane. The true question is of time and gestation. A fair period of reflection to decide and if its medically possible to sustain life outside the womb then the choice is obviously in favour of life.



Some rape victims raise beautiful healthy children. Some abort. Quite disgustingly some very very few people expect forgiveness and for the women to accept her situation and allow the rapist father to be in the childs life.



Pro-choice groups do more so then pro-life. We advocate sex-education, condoms, pills, etc.

Pro-life groups often consider birth control as a form of abortion.

The lines are blurry aren't they?

   

OUR CAST?

You are part of the ensemble?

You may take this as a great insult but you are much like me at your age. I was in highschool though but had the same attitude as you do.

Don't worry. You won't lose your hair.

   

I'm not part of the Cast, I'm a techie. I was part of the cast but they needed someone to run tech so I said I would.

   

Alright, let's say if a condom fails. What if that father and mother aren't ready to be parents both socially and economicly. Why should they have to ruin there lives based on a accident that isn't even alive yet?

What if a woman got raped and diddn't want the child? What right do people like you have to tell her she HAS to have the baby just because she was walking at the wrong place and the wrong time and because apparently killing something that isn't alive is 'wrong'.

By not allowing the parents to make there own choices based on there own situations you are only creating more pain for those kids lives.

Also as I said a million times, statisticly speaking kids who are born with parents who shouldn't be parents or in situations that are not fit for a kid. It sticks with them and fucks them up emotionally for life.

If a kid cannot deal with his surroundings he can generally shut down. Much like soldiers who go to war and see too much for there own good. Only kids are more vulnerable to it.

Anti-Abortion is a choice, those babies who get aborted are not your babies so why should somebody else dictate if a parent doesn't want there kid? Aborting a child while it's not even techniqally alive yet is soo much better than offering it a shitty child hood and statisticly speaking a shitty life or abandoning the kid in some underfunded and bad staffed facilities to be adopted where there has been many reports of child abuse in both the facility and by parents who adopt them.

   

Fire is not an organism complex enough to debate the natures of the universe. Human's are. Before you even start of the "baby's can't think like that" argument you have to realize neither can a lot of third world people or the mentally ill. But you can't take the exception as the rule.



The best example I can think of is a very blunt one. If you take your pet to the vet to be put down the vet puts it to sleep rather then cutting off it's head with a scalpel right in front of you.

Some methods chop the baby into small pieces inside the womb and they come out later bit by bit. That is freaking nasty. It's why I'm not a supporter of the freedom of choice act because it nullifies ALL state laws good and bad. Even if you legalized abortion there have to be medical and ethical standards for any procedure.

And yes I agree the lines are blurry. However I've found that there are many good pro-life groups out there and many bad ones. I've also found the same with pro-choice. Many a pro-choice activity has been a bald faced lie when I've done the search.

   

OF COURSE there have to be medical and ethical standards. Legalizing abortion is not the same as: hey, come on over, no problem, we "kill your baby, you're only 8 months pregnant". Legalizing it means you can SET rules and standards. Now there is nothing!

Anyway, you sound like you think that the pro-choice people always choose to have abortions... Newsflash!!! They don't!! Most don't! But having the choice is nice! It is my body! No one can force me to do things with my body or whats inside what I don't want... But I would like to have the choice to decide for myself.

   

Jealousy can kill
Jealousy can cure
Jealousy can make a rich man poor

Long live PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!!!

   

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