Have You Seen the Anti-Abortion Ad featuring...Barack Obama?
roger-roger @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:08 pm
RUEZ RUEZ:
Eisensapper Eisensapper:
Personally I feel life begins when the child leaves the womb, until then it is just a fetal growth. Im sure my view will change if I ever become a father, but until then that time I will hold the same position. I also do not edorse anyone else to have my position, and I admit my position is from an ignorant stance on pregnacy in general.
So two women get pregnant at the same time. One woman has a premature birth at 7 months. Is that baby more alive then the one still growing inside it's mothers womb?Yes.
Pseudonym @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:08 pm
Brenda Brenda:
Eisensapper Eisensapper:
Who was it on here that told me some 50% of all fertilized eggs auto abort?
According to this Wiki link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscarriage
$1:
Prospective studies using very sensitive early pregnancy tests have found that 25% of pregnancies are miscarried by the sixth week LMP (since the woman's Last Menstrual Period).[27][28] Clinical miscarriages (those occurring after the sixth week LMP) occur in 8% of pregnancies.[28]
The risk of miscarriage decreases sharply after the 10th week LMP, i.e. when the fetal stage begins.[29] The loss rate between 8.5 weeks LMP and birth is about two percent; loss is “virtually complete by the end of the embryonic period."[30]
The risk of miscarriage decreases sharply after the 10th week LMP, i.e. when the fetal stage begins.[29] The loss rate between 8.5 weeks LMP and birth is about two percent; loss is “virtually complete by the end of the embryonic period."[30]
The quick and easy response to this is "There is a difference between murder and natural death."
CanadianJeff @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:09 pm
and that's fine. I was ignorant as well until I took a few biology classes where we studied the process of pregnancy and Moises and Mitoses and chemical changes in the womb. It was science that convinced me of the pro life stance far before I ever came to the catholic fold later in life. It's actually a fairly funny stance when I talk with pro choice women because they are so used to having the argument come mostly from a faith based ideology. I base my pro life stance mostly on science and very little on faith if at all.
RUEZ @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:10 pm
Eisensapper Eisensapper:
RUEZ RUEZ:
Eisensapper Eisensapper:
Personally I feel life begins when the child leaves the womb, until then it is just a fetal growth. Im sure my view will change if I ever become a father, but until then that time I will hold the same position. I also do not edorse anyone else to have my position, and I admit my position is from an ignorant stance on pregnacy in general.
So two women get pregnant at the same time. One woman has a premature birth at 7 months. Is that baby more alive then the one still growing inside it's mothers womb?Yes.
Because? It's not good enough to just say yes.
Brenda @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:10 pm
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
The quick and easy response to this is "There is a difference between murder and natural death."
If you would call an early abortion murder, yes. I wouldn't go that far, though.
Pseudonym @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:12 pm
Eisensapper Eisensapper:
Yes.
![[B-o]](./images/smilies/drinkup.gif "Drink up")
Free beer for straight answers!
roger-roger @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:12 pm
Oh, then because one is still in construction, it has not been completed yet. The premature birth is out in the world and has reached the end of gestation period.
Pseudonym @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:14 pm
Brenda Brenda:
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
The quick and easy response to this is "There is a difference between murder and natural death."
If you would call an early abortion murder, yes. I wouldn't go that far, though.
I was arguing from the perspective that abortion is murder when the argument presented against me is that "Well, look at all these natural 'abortions'."
CanadianJeff @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:57 pm
well you know no matter how heated the debate ever gets I find people all agree on one thing. It is totally and utterly wrong for a man to run away from a pregnant woman after he gets her pregnant. I'd love to see our politicians put a law in place that makes men more legally bound to a woman if they get that woman pregnant. Running out on a woman after you knocked her up in my mind puts you as total and utter scum.
romanP @ Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:41 am
CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:
romanP romanP:
westmanguy westmanguy:
Nice.
Equating human life to animal life now? hmm?
Equating human life to animal life now? hmm?
You said "every life" not "human life". Still, I don't see what the difference is. Human life is animal life and vice versa. Why be speciesist? If life is sacred, then life is sacred, it shouldn't matter what shape or size it comes in.
Can a chicken for example think about the meaning of life or speculate about why the sky is blue?
Nobody knows.
$1:
What separates human life from animal life is extremely obvious. We are the only beings who can think on a fully scientific or philosophic level.
So what? You can contemplate the goo in your nose till you're blue in the face, but if an asteroid hits us tomorrow and wipes us all out, will it have mattered?
$1:
One does not care about stepping on an ant as much as one cares about running over a dog with good reason. One understands what the dog is capable of and what the ant is capable of. Our lives are much the same in comparison.
We think we're so high and mighty because we invented television and nuclear weapons. All of the other animals seem to function pretty well without them, and cause far less harm to their own environment in doing so. I don't see how it makes us superior.
romanP @ Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:47 am
CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:
Eisensapper Eisensapper:
Who was it on here that told me some 50% of all fertilized eggs auto abort?
were not talking about getting rid of an egg in the first few weeks. Were talking about embryos that have been around long enough to say with good evidence will develop further into human beings. If left alone those embryos DO have a very high chance of developing into human beings.
They also have a chance of miscarrying and becoming medical waste all on their own.
romanP @ Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:51 am
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
romanP romanP:
You said "every life" not "human life". Still, I don't see what the difference is. Human life is animal life and vice versa. Why be speciesist? If life is sacred, then life is sacred, it shouldn't matter what shape or size it comes in.
If you do not distinguish between animal and human life, then I foresee an enormous philosophical discussion before we could come to terms on this. Are you absolutely sure about that? It is one of the most depressing things I have read all day.
Why are you depressed about it? Humans are animals. That is a simple fact of biology. We are not superbeings exempt from the laws of physics.
romanP @ Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:56 am
CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:
well you know no matter how heated the debate ever gets I find people all agree on one thing. It is totally and utterly wrong for a man to run away from a pregnant woman after he gets her pregnant. I'd love to see our politicians put a law in place that makes men more legally bound to a woman if they get that woman pregnant. Running out on a woman after you knocked her up in my mind puts you as total and utter scum.
I think such a law would be an incredibly bad idea, unless you're talking about child support payments. Forcing a guy that runs away to take care of a child he doesn't want may sound noble in your mind, but it opens up the potential for abuse. Many of those men would probably make horrible fathers anyway.
Pseudonym @ Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:06 am
romanP romanP:
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
romanP romanP:
You said "every life" not "human life". Still, I don't see what the difference is. Human life is animal life and vice versa. Why be speciesist? If life is sacred, then life is sacred, it shouldn't matter what shape or size it comes in.
If you do not distinguish between animal and human life, then I foresee an enormous philosophical discussion before we could come to terms on this. Are you absolutely sure about that? It is one of the most depressing things I have read all day.
Why are you depressed about it? Humans are animals. That is a simple fact of biology. We are not superbeings exempt from the laws of physics.
I'm not depressed, but it seems like a rather depressing worldview. If there is nothing to separate man from animal, then there is no reason why killing a man should be any different from killing a dog, or a rat, or a mosquito.
roger-roger @ Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:10 am
Depends on the human I suppose...
Personally I see humans as superior beings, mainly due to our ability to have extremely complex societies and the capacity for increasing complex methods of communication.