Canada's rich get richer, poor get poorer, study finds
bootlegga @ Fri May 11, 2007 10:12 am
Brenda Brenda:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Well, in all fairness Brenda, working harder helps, but it doesn't help everyone. People can work 60 hours a week or more here in Alberta and still not manage to make ends meet. I work 40 hours a week and I'm looking for a P/T job right now to help with expenses.
Why? Housing prices have skyrocketed (both to own and to rent) for one thing. While jumps from $600 to $1000 monthly rent are the exception, it has become commonplace for rents to jump up to 20-30%. And to buy, it is even worse. A duplex last year that was $180,000 new is now selling for $350,000! That takes a bite out of anyone's income, no matter if you are working a service industry job or college educated.
While I agree that households with two well-educated people are one of the reasons for the rise in the gap between rich and poor, housing is another. Most people living below or near the poverty line don't own the property they live in, while the well-educated usually do.
Why? Housing prices have skyrocketed (both to own and to rent) for one thing. While jumps from $600 to $1000 monthly rent are the exception, it has become commonplace for rents to jump up to 20-30%. And to buy, it is even worse. A duplex last year that was $180,000 new is now selling for $350,000! That takes a bite out of anyone's income, no matter if you are working a service industry job or college educated.
While I agree that households with two well-educated people are one of the reasons for the rise in the gap between rich and poor, housing is another. Most people living below or near the poverty line don't own the property they live in, while the well-educated usually do.
I know, Boot, but will a raise of taxes help you with paying your rent? If you make 75.000 $, in 3 jobs, and they raise taxes, you'll still have a problem paying your 2000$ rent.
Oh no, I'm talking about the low end of the scale.
If someone is making $75,000 a year, you can afford (barely) your mortgage payment. My girlfriend makes only about $50,000 and makes a $1500 payment every month with little difficulty. It's the people making $20,000 a year that have trouble making rent payments, nevermind buying a home. They can work all they want, but with skyrocketing housing costs, they'll never be able to own a home/condo, which would enable them to build wealth (through equity) and get out of poverty.
Brenda @ Fri May 11, 2007 10:26 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
Oh no, I'm talking about the low end of the scale.
If someone is making $75,000 a year, you can afford (barely) your mortgage payment. My girlfriend makes only about $50,000 and makes a $1500 payment every month with little difficulty. It's the people making $20,000 a year that have trouble making rent payments, nevermind buying a home. They can work all they want, but with skyrocketing housing costs, they'll never be able to own a home/condo, which would enable them to build wealth (through equity) and get out of poverty.
If someone is making $75,000 a year, you can afford (barely) your mortgage payment. My girlfriend makes only about $50,000 and makes a $1500 payment every month with little difficulty. It's the people making $20,000 a year that have trouble making rent payments, nevermind buying a home. They can work all they want, but with skyrocketing housing costs, they'll never be able to own a home/condo, which would enable them to build wealth (through equity) and get out of poverty.
I know, and I agree, but... here I go again, when they had been to school earlier in their lives, maybe they would not be in the lower end of the scale.
Do that's why I say: Education.
bootlegga @ Fri May 11, 2007 10:34 am
Brenda Brenda:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Oh no, I'm talking about the low end of the scale.
If someone is making $75,000 a year, you can afford (barely) your mortgage payment. My girlfriend makes only about $50,000 and makes a $1500 payment every month with little difficulty. It's the people making $20,000 a year that have trouble making rent payments, nevermind buying a home. They can work all they want, but with skyrocketing housing costs, they'll never be able to own a home/condo, which would enable them to build wealth (through equity) and get out of poverty.
If someone is making $75,000 a year, you can afford (barely) your mortgage payment. My girlfriend makes only about $50,000 and makes a $1500 payment every month with little difficulty. It's the people making $20,000 a year that have trouble making rent payments, nevermind buying a home. They can work all they want, but with skyrocketing housing costs, they'll never be able to own a home/condo, which would enable them to build wealth (through equity) and get out of poverty.
I know, and I agree, but... here I go again, when they had been to school earlier in their lives, maybe they would not be in the lower end of the scale.
Do that's why I say: Education.
Education helps, but not everyone is smart enough to go to university and become a doctor. Otherwise we'd all be doctors earning the big bucks...
Still, if the government invested more in helping people retrain for things like trades (in short supply in Alberta), that would make a difference too.
Brenda @ Fri May 11, 2007 10:44 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
Brenda Brenda:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Oh no, I'm talking about the low end of the scale.
If someone is making $75,000 a year, you can afford (barely) your mortgage payment. My girlfriend makes only about $50,000 and makes a $1500 payment every month with little difficulty. It's the people making $20,000 a year that have trouble making rent payments, nevermind buying a home. They can work all they want, but with skyrocketing housing costs, they'll never be able to own a home/condo, which would enable them to build wealth (through equity) and get out of poverty.
If someone is making $75,000 a year, you can afford (barely) your mortgage payment. My girlfriend makes only about $50,000 and makes a $1500 payment every month with little difficulty. It's the people making $20,000 a year that have trouble making rent payments, nevermind buying a home. They can work all they want, but with skyrocketing housing costs, they'll never be able to own a home/condo, which would enable them to build wealth (through equity) and get out of poverty.
I know, and I agree, but... here I go again, when they had been to school earlier in their lives, maybe they would not be in the lower end of the scale.
Do that's why I say: Education.
Education helps, but not everyone is smart enough to go to university and become a doctor. Otherwise we'd all be doctors earning the big bucks...
Still, if the government invested more in helping people retrain for things like trades (in short supply in Alberta), that would make a difference too.
No, I'm not saying every one should be a doctor.. I think people who want to make their hands dirty AND know what they are doing are very important too. Without a plumber no fixed toilet right?
OPP @ Fri May 11, 2007 4:16 pm
Brenda Brenda:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Well, in all fairness Brenda, working harder helps, but it doesn't help everyone. People can work 60 hours a week or more here in Alberta and still not manage to make ends meet. I work 40 hours a week and I'm looking for a P/T job right now to help with expenses.
Why? Housing prices have skyrocketed (both to own and to rent) for one thing. While jumps from $600 to $1000 monthly rent are the exception, it has become commonplace for rents to jump up to 20-30%. And to buy, it is even worse. A duplex last year that was $180,000 new is now selling for $350,000! That takes a bite out of anyone's income, no matter if you are working a service industry job or college educated.
While I agree that households with two well-educated people are one of the reasons for the rise in the gap between rich and poor, housing is another. Most people living below or near the poverty line don't own the property they live in, while the well-educated usually do.
Why? Housing prices have skyrocketed (both to own and to rent) for one thing. While jumps from $600 to $1000 monthly rent are the exception, it has become commonplace for rents to jump up to 20-30%. And to buy, it is even worse. A duplex last year that was $180,000 new is now selling for $350,000! That takes a bite out of anyone's income, no matter if you are working a service industry job or college educated.
While I agree that households with two well-educated people are one of the reasons for the rise in the gap between rich and poor, housing is another. Most people living below or near the poverty line don't own the property they live in, while the well-educated usually do.
I know, Boot, but will a raise of taxes help you with paying your rent? If you make 75.000 $, in 3 jobs, and they raise taxes, you'll still have a problem paying your 2000$ rent.
You're just grasping for straws here. Increase minimum wage, as I've said before, and increase taxation on the rich. The combination of the two will increase the living standars of "ordinary" people.
OPP @ Fri May 11, 2007 4:18 pm
Brenda Brenda:
OPP OPP:
Brenda Brenda:
OPP OPP:
Brenda Brenda:
OPP OPP:
Brenda Brenda:
And why does that make someone "poor"?
Just don't spend more than you earn...
Just don't spend more than you earn...
There are many places in the world where the minimum wage they are paid just don't make the bill. They can't pay the rent and are forced to work two, thre jobs and it's still not enough. That is poverty.
Yep, I know... And that is very sad, but i am not willing to take the blame for that, nor am I willing to pay for it.
We live in the West here, and I am very willing to share, but there are limits. We have 52% taxes for the most wealthy people. And a savings tax of 29%. And road taxes. I think I pay my share.
I think people who need to work 3 jobs to get even every month should have been educated in an earlier state of their lifes.
But you're not listening to me! Education won't change a thing if theres not enough well paid jobs to go around and there aren't!
Excuse me, but what is wrong with making your own job? create one! Be your own boss!
You're not being realistic Brenda... I have to split, but keep this baby warm.
Why am I not realistic? We HAVE our own company, we created our own jobs... How more realistic do you want it?
Your talking about yourself. How many people do you know with a business of their own?
Do your seriously belive that every persone has that oportunity?
OPP @ Fri May 11, 2007 4:22 pm
Brenda Brenda:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Brenda Brenda:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Oh no, I'm talking about the low end of the scale.
If someone is making $75,000 a year, you can afford (barely) your mortgage payment. My girlfriend makes only about $50,000 and makes a $1500 payment every month with little difficulty. It's the people making $20,000 a year that have trouble making rent payments, nevermind buying a home. They can work all they want, but with skyrocketing housing costs, they'll never be able to own a home/condo, which would enable them to build wealth (through equity) and get out of poverty.
If someone is making $75,000 a year, you can afford (barely) your mortgage payment. My girlfriend makes only about $50,000 and makes a $1500 payment every month with little difficulty. It's the people making $20,000 a year that have trouble making rent payments, nevermind buying a home. They can work all they want, but with skyrocketing housing costs, they'll never be able to own a home/condo, which would enable them to build wealth (through equity) and get out of poverty.
I know, and I agree, but... here I go again, when they had been to school earlier in their lives, maybe they would not be in the lower end of the scale.
Do that's why I say: Education.
Education helps, but not everyone is smart enough to go to university and become a doctor. Otherwise we'd all be doctors earning the big bucks...
Still, if the government invested more in helping people retrain for things like trades (in short supply in Alberta), that would make a difference too.
No, I'm not saying every one should be a doctor.. I think people who want to make their hands dirty AND know what they are doing are very important too. Without a plumber no fixed toilet right?
All occupations are important and needed. That's why everyone should have a decent wage to live of.
Increase minimum wage and the economy overall will increase.
Knoss @ Fri May 11, 2007 4:54 pm
$1:
Simple.. better sallaries and more taxation on the rich.
$1:
You're just grasping for straws here. Increase minimum wage, as I've said before, and increase taxation on the rich. The combination of the two will increase the living standars of "ordinary" people.
Then we would all be broke.
$1:
If someone is making $75,000 a year, you can afford (barely) your mortgage payment. My girlfriend makes only about $50,000 and makes a $1500 payment every month with little difficulty. It's the people making $20,000 a year that have trouble making rent payments, nevermind buying a home. They can work all they want, but with skyrocketing housing costs, they'll never be able to own a home/condo, which would enable them to build wealth (through equity) and get out of poverty.
Poverty line is $365.25 annual income.If you make more then that your not in poverty.
$1:
Education helps, but not everyone is smart enough to go to university and become a doctor. Otherwise we'd all be doctors earning the big bucks...
Then doctors would make minimum wage.
$1:
You're just grasping for straws here. Increase minimum wage, as I've said before, and increase taxation on the rich. The combination of the two will increase the living standars of "ordinary" people.
but then everyone would be the same.
$1:
If someone is making $75,000 a year, you can afford (barely) your mortgage payment. My girlfriend makes only about $50,000 and makes a $1500 payment every month with little difficulty. It's the people making $20,000 a year that have trouble making rent payments, nevermind buying a home. They can work all they want, but with skyrocketing housing costs, they'll never be able to own a home/condo, which would enable them to build wealth (through equity) and get out of poverty.
Poverty line is $365.25 annual income.If you make more then that your not in poverty.
$1:
Education helps, but not everyone is smart enough to go to university and become a doctor. Otherwise we'd all be doctors earning the big bucks...
Then doctors would make minimum wage.
$1:
But you're not listening to me! Education won't change a thing if theres not enough well paid jobs to go around and there aren't!
I agree we should reduce the amount of subsidisation on university degrees then there would be less demand for degrees in a flooded market.
OPP @ Fri May 11, 2007 5:10 pm
Knoss Knoss:
but then everyone would be the same.
No.. no they would not. Rich people will always be rich. Making a decent wage as a dentist or doctor of any kind does not make you rich. There are people who have the most profound amount of money, which they will never manage to spend (and they have no intentions to do so eather), that any amount of taxation wouldn't be enough to bring them to the line of poverty.
That's ridiculous!
BartSimpson @ Fri May 11, 2007 5:14 pm
OPP OPP:
Increase minimum wage and the economy overall will increase.
Then why not increase it to $1000 per hour and make everyone a millionaire?
OPP @ Fri May 11, 2007 5:19 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
OPP OPP:
Increase minimum wage and the economy overall will increase.
Then why not increase it to $1000 per hour and make everyone a millionaire?
Becaus it's not feesable. There's such a thing as inflation which would prevent such an increas.
If we'd take the first couple of trillions from the pokets of the elite.. then it would be feesable for a while.
BartSimpson @ Fri May 11, 2007 5:46 pm
OPP OPP:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
OPP OPP:
Increase minimum wage and the economy overall will increase.
Then why not increase it to $1000 per hour and make everyone a millionaire?
Becaus it's not feesable. There's such a thing as inflation which would prevent such an increas.
If we'd take the first couple of trillions from the pokets of the elite.. then it would be feesable for a while.
Ah, then you see the effect of raising the minimum wage is inflationary and not only are the temporary gains of those working for that wage soon erased by inflation - as the wage moves up and tax rates remain static they actually LOSE purchasing power as inflation takes away their gains and the tax man takes more than he used to.
What's so ironic about this (and funny, at least to me) is that the very tax schemes you leftists call "progressive" end up hurting the poor more than anything the eeeeevil capitalists ever dreamed of.
Leftism makes the poor get poorer.
OPP @ Fri May 11, 2007 5:59 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
OPP OPP:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
OPP OPP:
Increase minimum wage and the economy overall will increase.
Then why not increase it to $1000 per hour and make everyone a millionaire?
Becaus it's not feesable. There's such a thing as inflation which would prevent such an increas.
If we'd take the first couple of trillions from the pokets of the elite.. then it would be feesable for a while.
Ah, then you see the effect of raising the minimum wage is inflationary and not only are the temporary gains of those working for that wage soon erased by inflation - as the wage moves up and tax rates remain static they actually LOSE purchasing power as inflation takes away their gains and the tax man takes more than he used to.
What's so ironic about this (and funny, at least to me) is that the very tax schemes you leftists call "progressive" end up hurting the poor more than anything the eeeeevil capitalists ever dreamed of.
Leftism makes the poor get poorer.
"Feesable for a while" untill the demand outweights the actual profit. Even soo. Wealth will be divided as equliy as possible among the people and all will return to normal as prises rise. The demand will then decrease and... why am I even doing this?
I'm starting to reason like a capitalist... look... The most important thing is to take the power away from those with too much of it.. Just as you would reason a dictatorship needs to turn into a democrasy for the balance of power to be more equaly devided omong the people.
Those who have accumulated wealth to a proportion where they find that they are above the state itself...
Those are the people I'm aiming for.
tritium @ Fri May 11, 2007 6:18 pm
Brenda Brenda:
Like raising taxes will do the trick 
I think Steve Forbes' Flat Tax Plan is the best idea.
It taxes everyone the same. However, if you are richer, your taxed more.
Education : ignorant suggestion when people with universities degrees are working at Burger King.
OPP @ Fri May 11, 2007 6:24 pm
tritium tritium:
Brenda Brenda:
Like raising taxes will do the trick
I think Steve Forbes' Flat Tax Plan is the best idea.
It taxes everyone the same. However, if you are richer, your taxed more.
Education : ignorant suggestion when people with universities degrees are working at Burger King.
My favourite conservative
