Indian Apartheid
saga @ Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:36 pm
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
I have to address several of your points Saga.
First, Canada is not now, nor was in the past a particularly racist country. To judge the past by applying the values of the present is both unfair and misleading. For its day Canada was extremely tolerant taking in Black slaves, negotiating with Indians and excepting immigrants from the undesirable eastern Europe. You would be hard pressed to show me a more 'tolerant' country during any of the centuries of Canada's existence.
First, Canada is not now, nor was in the past a particularly racist country. To judge the past by applying the values of the present is both unfair and misleading. For its day Canada was extremely tolerant taking in Black slaves, negotiating with Indians and excepting immigrants from the undesirable eastern Europe. You would be hard pressed to show me a more 'tolerant' country during any of the centuries of Canada's existence.
Well, I don't know about you, but where I grew up in rural Ontario ... "immigrants" are still considered a drain on the economy, and no one can convince them differently, despite the fact that they don't personally know any! Mostly 'older' people like me and older ... but I've certainly run into quite a bit of it here on cka too, in regard to First Nations. Also, ... well here's the quote.
"The impact of postwar immigration on the Canadian Jewish community is perhaps the most significant difference between patterns in American and Canadian Jewish immigration. During World War II the Canadian government refused to allow Jews fleeing the Holocaust to enter the country. However, thousands of Jewish war survivors were permitted entry in the late 1940s and 1950s; thus, they came to constitute a more significant percentage of the total Jewish community in Canada than in the United States." Their reasons for refusal were not nice at all. Also, you have heard about the Chinese head tax, no doubt, but perhaps not about the thousands who built our cross canada railway, many dying in the process, some of them hunted for 'sport'. The underground railway ended here, but that didn't mean they had it easy. Many were driven out of their communities, and certainly there was severe discrimination in jobs, education, etc.
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
Secondly, it is our tolerance that has allowed the decedents of the aboriginals to even exist. Historically, throughout human history any conquered people have either been assimilated or annihilated. This situation exists anathematic to your accustaions of bigotry towards the natives.
AHHH ... now I see what blinders you are wearing. You think we conquered them. NOPE ... not in Canada. The Crown made treaties with them. They were our allies. The Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) Warriors (whose descendents now reclaim the Haldimand Tract) fought with us against the Americans in the War of 1812-1814 and if not for them, we'd be American today. That's not to say we didn't kill some of them here and there, (settler feuds, etc) but we never conducted wars, battles or massacres against them like south of the border. Assimilated or annihilated ... Well, obviously not all of them want to be assimilated. About half still live on reserves, and some who are assimilated are also still very much connected to the traditional practices of the reserves. If the rest haven't left yet ... it's pretty obvious that they prefer and intend to stay on their land. Not much we can do about that, because FORCED ASSIMILATION is called genocide (UN). It is not something that a government can just decide to do without HUGE political and international ramifications. It simply is not a solution. We did try to annihilate them and their culture through the residential school abuse and many thousands of children did 'disappear' there, and we by outlawed their traditional spiritual and governance practices in 1924 ... at gunpoint ... but no ... we never 'conquered them' in any real sense, though we have certainly mistreated them.
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
Thirdly, even if one Indian does not have to pay taxes because of his race and address in Canada then that is one indian too many. I cannot tolerate any race based taxation or other race laws for that matter as they are counter to the nation some of us want to build from the country that now exists. One Canada, One People must become our desire or we will watch Canada fragment into pieces.
They are untaxable on the reserve because they are on sovereign land, according to our treaties with them. Just like Americans who come here don't pay our taxes. If you don't like that ... take it up with the government. One Canada One People is naive and overly simplistic when applied to Indigenous people. It was their land and we need to learn to share it properly. We will always have some race/culturally based laws ... I believe there is one in the RCMP that allows wearing of certain religious articles, etc.
Canada is not a melting pot like the US, but a mosaic. That is supposed to respresent the right to retain their traditional ways within our society.
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
Forth. There are a sizable number of "educated" natives which are pushing hard to have their people assimilated into the Canadian experience to the same degree that the Italians, Ukrainians and Japanese have. Two, three, four or more Canada’s will eventually lead to not a religious but racial balkanisation.
There are many educated natives now, and the numbers are increasing rapidly. Some of them are full-fleged Canadians by their own wishes. Many of them are also traditional people, and they want to use their education to improve their communities and become self-sufficient and independent of Canada. This is a country of free choice. Do we tell Dutch farmers that they can't all live near each other? No. How is this different? They own land communally. How is this different than a corporation consisting of a lot of stakeholders owning land?
And they are using their education to get their land back so they can be economically self-sufficient.
There are already several self-governing First Nations in Canada, mostly in BC and up north.
Complete assimilation will never happen. There is in fact a resurgence of traditional spirituality and governance. For the first time, a land claim is beinf negotiated with a traditional Confederacy (Six Nations) rather than with an elected (canadian) Band Council.
Canada is commited to multiculturalism now, but it has been a very hard fought battle. It did not come about easily, and it is still despised by many. And through all of that equality and multicultural struggle for new immigrants ... we neglected our obligations to aboriginal people who were already here ... when we came as immigrants. They welcomed us, helped us survive, fought beside us ... signed treaties with us ... and we did not honour the treaties.
These are not simple issues, and require more than simplistic assimmilate-anihilate solutions ... and we already tried that, remember?
Traditional and Canadian aboriginal kids ... most of them went to high school in towns. They know about Canadian rights. They know how theirs were violated. They make a choice.
And we can't tell them anymore that they don't have a right to stand up for their rights. Because the Un is watching us very carefully.
HyperionTheEvil @ Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:09 pm
saga saga:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
I think the whole conept of Tax-Payers forking over billions of dollars every year to 'help' indians really does nothing more than exacerbate indians own self created issues.
It is $9b per year that goes to Indian Affairs. Lotta money. Most of it never leavesw Ottawa.
Hyper ... I think I have mentioned this fact to you before, but you don't seem to have grasped it.
The government money that goes to reserves - i.e., Band Councils - is only ONE HALF of what is received by our municipalities, and that already includes their education budget.
In your "one Canada" vision, would you immediately double their funding to make all communities equal?
Well if your right that the "X" billions never leave ottawa then you wont miss it all that much if its ended all together. To make Canada equal means no money to anyone based on the pigment of their skin.
You want to earn respect , you have to earn it. you want equality? Indians have to start acting like thier not special an no better than other Canadians
saga @ Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:50 pm
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
saga saga:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
I think the whole conept of Tax-Payers forking over billions of dollars every year to 'help' indians really does nothing more than exacerbate indians own self created issues.
It is $9b per year that goes to Indian Affairs. Lotta money. Most of it never leavesw Ottawa.
Hyper ... I think I have mentioned this fact to you before, but you don't seem to have grasped it.
The government money that goes to reserves - i.e., Band Councils - is only ONE HALF of what is received by our municipalities, and that already includes their education budget.
In your "one Canada" vision, would you immediately double their funding to make all communities equal?
Well if your right that the "X" billions never leave ottawa then you wont miss it all that much if its ended all together. To make Canada equal means no money to anyone based on the pigment of their skin.
You want to earn respect , you have to earn it. you want equality? Indians have to start acting like thier not special an no better than other Canadians
ya ya ya I hear Adolph Harpers pigswill coming from your mouth ... wish you xxconservative folks would get a clue:
pppsssstt ... it's not about skin colour ... cos about half of them live off the reserves, are Canadians and may well continue to be Canadians with family ties to a home community (this is a problem?).
Others (with the same skin colour) want the same freedom of spiritual traditions and governance they had prior to 1924, to live independently on the land, and to collect the restitution that Canada owes them.
And I will grant you it is legally complicated, but in the case of Six Nations they are well advanced in services (policing, fire, etc.) and quite prepared to live in peace once justice is done.
... and you never did answer my question ... but it doesn't matter ... point made and ... assimilating reserve communities as municipalites doesn't seem likely ... may happen in some cases perhaps ... I don't know ... certainly not Six Nations
... but if it did happen somewhere, their government funding would have to immediately double ... just to be equal.
How's that for special?
2Cdo @ Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:17 am
$1:
ya ya ya I hear Adolph Harpers pigswill coming from your mouth ... wish you xxconservative folks would get a clue:
You know a debate is lost when one side resorts to insults rather than addressing the issue!
Time to crawl back under your rock Saga, you lost, again!
saga @ Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:18 pm
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
saga saga:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
I think the whole conept of Tax-Payers forking over billions of dollars every year to 'help' indians really does nothing more than exacerbate indians own self created issues.
It is $9b per year that goes to Indian Affairs. Lotta money. Most of it never leavesw Ottawa.
Hyper ... I think I have mentioned this fact to you before, but you don't seem to have grasped it.
The government money that goes to reserves - i.e., Band Councils - is only ONE HALF of what is received by our municipalities, and that already includes their education budget.
In your "one Canada" vision, would you immediately double their funding to make all communities equal?
Well if your right that the "X" billions never leave ottawa then you wont miss it all that much if its ended all together. To make Canada equal means no money to anyone based on the pigment of their skin.
You want to earn respect , you have to earn it. you want equality? Indians have to start acting like thier not special an no better than other Canadians
ARE ALL PEOPLE IN CANADA EQUAL IN THE EYES OF THE LAW ... or not?
saga @ Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:02 pm
saga saga:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
saga saga:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
I think the whole conept of Tax-Payers forking over billions of dollars every year to 'help' indians really does nothing more than exacerbate indians own self created issues.
It is $9b per year that goes to Indian Affairs. Lotta money. Most of it never leavesw Ottawa.
Hyper ... I think I have mentioned this fact to you before, but you don't seem to have grasped it.
The government money that goes to reserves - i.e., Band Councils - is only ONE HALF of what is received by our municipalities, and that already includes their education budget.
In your "one Canada" vision, would you immediately double their funding to make all communities equal?
Well if your right that the "X" billions never leave ottawa then you wont miss it all that much if its ended all together. To make Canada equal means no money to anyone based on the pigment of their skin.
You want to earn respect , you have to earn it. you want equality? Indians have to start acting like thier not special an no better than other Canadians
ARE ALL PEOPLE IN CANADA EQUAL IN THE EYES OF THE LAW ... or not?
No answer ... I win!
ps. Those who think $9b is too much money for governance, social programs, cultural programs, education, health, etc. for a million people need to check something out:
- How much do Canadians 'receive' for governance, etc. each year ?
........................................
Regarding the topic of this thread ... "apartheid" is when you force someone to live where they don't want to live.
Indigenous reserves in Canada are the last bits of land we didn't steal from them. Believe me ... they are NOT leaving!
Arctic_Menace @ Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:05 pm
$1:
ARE ALL PEOPLE IN CANADA EQUAL IN THE EYES OF THE LAW
Yes.
Sorry I'm late.
saga @ Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:18 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
$1:
ARE ALL PEOPLE IN CANADA EQUAL IN THE EYES OF THE LAW
Yes.
Sorry I'm late.
no problem ... but ... you might want to read the thread before responding Menace ... because my next comment is this:
Then why do Canada's Indian Band Councils receive only HALF of the government funds that our municipalities do?
EyeBrock @ Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:26 pm
I posted this on another thread that was a little old, anyway it suits any of the threads Saga posts as they all are basically the same topic.
Saga, when will you and many 1st Nations people stop being victims and bemoaning past treatment?
If we ‘whites’ (or whatever you think we all are) bleated on about those who have oppressed us in the thousands of years of western civilisation we would still be in the Dark Ages.
I’m from Irish stock, we were oppressed by the English for centuries.
Every body in this forum has ancestors that were the focal point of one set of tyrants or another.
You need to stop harping on about the past and become Canadians.
Canada has been funding a good majority of 1st Nations peoples for decades now, without very much changing. It’s time to stop these ersatz ‘nations’ within our borders.
First Nations deserve respect, but really the reservoir of good will is rapidly drying up.
You cannot subsist on welfare, deny property rights to women, abuse your kids and run corrupt and unaccountable band councils while defying the laws of the land you are happy to take cheques from for too much longer without losing even more sympathy.
Quit the whining and join the human race, or be consigned to the irrelevance that beckons.
saga @ Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:38 pm
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
I posted this on another thread that was a little old, anyway it suits any of the threads Saga posts as they all are basically the same topic.
Saga, when will you and many 1st Nations people stop being victims and bemoaning past treatment?
If we ‘whites’ (or whatever you think we all are) bleated on about those who have oppressed us in the thousands of years of western civilisation we would still be in the Dark Ages.
I’m from Irish stock, we were oppressed by the English for centuries.
Every body in this forum has ancestors that were the focal point of one set of tyrants or another.
You need to stop harping on about the past and become Canadians.
Canada has been funding a good majority of 1st Nations peoples for decades now, without very much changing. It’s time to stop these ersatz ‘nations’ within our borders.
First Nations deserve respect, but really the reservoir of good will is rapidly drying up.
You cannot subsist on welfare, deny property rights to women, abuse your kids and run corrupt and unaccountable band councils while defying the laws of the land you are happy to take cheques from for too much longer without losing even more sympathy.
Quit the whining and join the human race, or be consigned to the irrelevance that beckons.
Saga, when will you and many 1st Nations people stop being victims and bemoaning past treatment?
If we ‘whites’ (or whatever you think we all are) bleated on about those who have oppressed us in the thousands of years of western civilisation we would still be in the Dark Ages.
I’m from Irish stock, we were oppressed by the English for centuries.
Every body in this forum has ancestors that were the focal point of one set of tyrants or another.
You need to stop harping on about the past and become Canadians.
Canada has been funding a good majority of 1st Nations peoples for decades now, without very much changing. It’s time to stop these ersatz ‘nations’ within our borders.
First Nations deserve respect, but really the reservoir of good will is rapidly drying up.
You cannot subsist on welfare, deny property rights to women, abuse your kids and run corrupt and unaccountable band councils while defying the laws of the land you are happy to take cheques from for too much longer without losing even more sympathy.
Quit the whining and join the human race, or be consigned to the irrelevance that beckons.
... and my response fits equally well here too.
I AM CANADIAN ... I am not an Indigenous person.
I am not moaning ... I AM SHOUTING!
You are not respectful of Indigenous people and never have been if you propogate those stereotypes.
Such crap! Canada funds us too! big deal! (And YES ... they pay taxes too ... off the reserve)
I am not talking about Band Councils ... they are Canadian governments imposed by Canada (at gunpoint, rcmp, 1924 at Six Nations), who sometimes emulate the white 'Indian Agents' they replaced.
I am talking about traditional councils ... like the Haudenosaunee Confederacy Council of Six Nations.
And they want their land back.
International and Canadian law support their right to have their land back.
... but the government dithers and spends millions on pretending to negotiate instead, and on policing and courts ... criminalizing land claims to keep them 'in their place'.
Seems a waste of money and energy when we could just implement the laws and live in peace, honourably (for a change).
EyeBrock @ Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:16 pm
saga saga:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
I posted this on another thread that was a little old, anyway it suits any of the threads Saga posts as they all are basically the same topic.
Saga, when will you and many 1st Nations people stop being victims and bemoaning past treatment?
If we ‘whites’ (or whatever you think we all are) bleated on about those who have oppressed us in the thousands of years of western civilisation we would still be in the Dark Ages.
I’m from Irish stock, we were oppressed by the English for centuries.
Every body in this forum has ancestors that were the focal point of one set of tyrants or another.
You need to stop harping on about the past and become Canadians.
Canada has been funding a good majority of 1st Nations peoples for decades now, without very much changing. It’s time to stop these ersatz ‘nations’ within our borders.
First Nations deserve respect, but really the reservoir of good will is rapidly drying up.
You cannot subsist on welfare, deny property rights to women, abuse your kids and run corrupt and unaccountable band councils while defying the laws of the land you are happy to take cheques from for too much longer without losing even more sympathy.
Quit the whining and join the human race, or be consigned to the irrelevance that beckons.
Saga, when will you and many 1st Nations people stop being victims and bemoaning past treatment?
If we ‘whites’ (or whatever you think we all are) bleated on about those who have oppressed us in the thousands of years of western civilisation we would still be in the Dark Ages.
I’m from Irish stock, we were oppressed by the English for centuries.
Every body in this forum has ancestors that were the focal point of one set of tyrants or another.
You need to stop harping on about the past and become Canadians.
Canada has been funding a good majority of 1st Nations peoples for decades now, without very much changing. It’s time to stop these ersatz ‘nations’ within our borders.
First Nations deserve respect, but really the reservoir of good will is rapidly drying up.
You cannot subsist on welfare, deny property rights to women, abuse your kids and run corrupt and unaccountable band councils while defying the laws of the land you are happy to take cheques from for too much longer without losing even more sympathy.
Quit the whining and join the human race, or be consigned to the irrelevance that beckons.
... and my response fits equally well here too.
I AM CANADIAN ... I am not an Indigenous person.
I am not moaning ... I AM SHOUTING!
You are not respectful of Indigenous people and never have been if you propogate those stereotypes.
Such crap! Canada funds us too! big deal! (And YES ... they pay taxes too ... off the reserve)
I am not talking about Band Councils ... they are Canadian governments imposed by Canada (at gunpoint, rcmp, 1924 at Six Nations), who sometimes emulate the white 'Indian Agents' they replaced.
I am talking about traditional councils ... like the Haudenosaunee Confederacy Council of Six Nations.
And they want their land back.
International and Canadian law support their right to have their land back.
... but the government dithers and spends millions on pretending to negotiate instead, and on policing and courts ... criminalizing land claims to keep them 'in their place'.
Seems a waste of money and energy when we could just implement the laws and live in peace, honourably (for a change).
Unfortunately they are not all stereotypes.
The lawlessness in Caledonia does the native cause absolutely no good and the fact that the Govt of Ontario refuses to enforce the laws of the land in Caledonia is a blight on our nation.
Appeasing bandits does nobody anygood.
Until natives start obeying Canadian laws and stop living outside society they will continue to be the marginalised minority that is better known for not doing much other than living off the rest of the tax payers in Canada.
I agree that there has been exploitation of the Haldimand Tract, but it is no different to the exploitation of the UEL's land grants in the 1830's by numerous speculators.
If we are to redress the 6 Nations issues then we should do the same to the descendants of the United Empire Loyalist land grants.
Both groups came at the same time and both deserve equal treatment.
saga @ Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:44 pm
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
saga saga:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
It’s time to stop these ersatz ‘nations’ within our borders.
....
You cannot subsist on welfare, deny property rights to women, abuse your kids and run corrupt and unaccountable band councils while defying the laws of the land you are happy to take cheques from for too much longer without losing even more sympathy.
....
You cannot subsist on welfare, deny property rights to women, abuse your kids and run corrupt and unaccountable band councils while defying the laws of the land you are happy to take cheques from for too much longer without losing even more sympathy.
I AM CANADIAN ... I am not an Indigenous person.
I am not moaning ... I AM SHOUTING!
You are not respectful of Indigenous people and never have been if you propogate those stereotypes.
Such crap! Canada funds us too! big deal! (And YES ... they pay taxes too ... off the reserve)
I am not talking about Band Councils ... they are Canadian governments imposed by Canada (at gunpoint, rcmp, 1924 at Six Nations), who sometimes emulate the white 'Indian Agents' they replaced.
I am talking about traditional councils ... like the Haudenosaunee Confederacy Council of Six Nations.
And they want their land back.
International and Canadian law support their right to have their land back.
... but the government dithers and spends millions on pretending to negotiate instead, and on policing and courts ... criminalizing land claims to keep them 'in their place'.
Seems a waste of money and energy when we could just implement the laws and live in peace, honourably (for a change).
Unfortunately they are not all stereotypes.
The lawlessness in Caledonia does the native cause absolutely no good and the fact that the Govt of Ontario refuses to enforce the laws of the land in Caledonia is a blight on our nation.
Appeasing bandits does nobody anygood.
Until natives start obeying Canadian laws and stop living outside society they will continue to be the marginalised minority that is better know for not doing much other than living off the rest of the tax payers in Canada.
I agree that there has been exploitation of the Haldimand Tract, but it is no different to the exploitation of the UEL's land grants in the 1830's by numerous speculators.
If we are to redress the 6 Nations issues then we should do the same to the descendants of the United Empire Loyalist land grants.
Both groups came at the same time and both deserve equal treatment.
Such ignorant balderdash!! The lawlessness is from the kkkaledonians (not to be confused with real Caledonians. That's why the OPP always face the townies, not Six Nations. (And btw ... the warriors got quite a chuckle out of looking at your backs!)
The private land transactions are one thing ... and will be gone over with a fine toothed comb by the historians to determine which were valid. However, the biggest land grabs were done by the government ... they called them 'surrenders'. It meant that the government held the land in trust for the Indigenous people, and whatever money accrued was to be paid into their account.The land was not to be sold. However, the government sold the land and pocketed the money in most cases. These are the 'accounts' that must be settled up.
Any UEL who can prove it with documentation is welcome to try suing the government. Good luck! I suggest blocckading the land if you want them to pay any attention, cos it's the only way!
What about the law, EYE?
The law ... back then when Joseph Brant sold off quite a bit of land ... said that only chiefs could sell the land and only with ratification of the people. Joseph Brant was never a chief ... not in the matrilineal line for such ... and yet the government granted him the right to sell the land against the wishes of the people ... and against the law.
The law says they have the right to reclaim their land.
The law says they own all the land ... and we are only here by virtue of the fact that they ceded some land to us.
The law also says ... that Canada is not a legal country ... only exists by the grace of the Crown ... because Canada has no legal land mass.
These are not new laws, but they have been ignored by the courts to please the governments. However, the courts are beginning to realize that their job is to uphold the law, not to uphold the government. So is yours.
And yes, it is time to stop this ersatz nation within their borders. It's time we grew up and took our lumps and negotiated ourselves a real country.
And about the cheques ... add them all up and it is a drop in the bucket compared to what we owe them. Now stop whining!
EyeBrock @ Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:34 am
Ok, show me the law that says Canada isn't a country.
As far as I know the BNA made the Dominion of Canada a self ruling country.
Pray do enlighten me.
And whatever little catch phrases you have for the anarchy in Caledonia doesn't excuse native bad behaviour or the Ontario Government's lack of moral fibre in refusing to enforce the law of the land.
Oh and our Joe Brant was a heriditary Mohawk Chief as well he held the Kings Commission and was the highest ranking Mohawk in the British Army.
But I'm sure you knew that.
saga @ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:12 pm
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Ok, show me the law that says Canada isn't a country.
As far as I know the BNA made the Dominion of Canada a self ruling country.
Pray do enlighten me.
And whatever little catch phrases you have for the anarchy in Caledonia doesn't excuse native bad behaviour or the Ontario Government's lack of moral fibre in refusing to enforce the law of the land.
Oh and our Joe Brant was a heriditary Mohawk Chief as well he held the Kings Commission and was the highest ranking Mohawk in the British Army.
But I'm sure you knew that.
As far as I know the BNA made the Dominion of Canada a self ruling country.
Pray do enlighten me.
And whatever little catch phrases you have for the anarchy in Caledonia doesn't excuse native bad behaviour or the Ontario Government's lack of moral fibre in refusing to enforce the law of the land.
Oh and our Joe Brant was a heriditary Mohawk Chief as well he held the Kings Commission and was the highest ranking Mohawk in the British Army.
But I'm sure you knew that.
He was not a "hereditary " chief. He was a "Pine Tree" which is someone who sits in Council as an advisor, but he was not in the hereditary line. Yes, he was a ranking officer in the British Army. Well liked by the brits and government, but not always trusted by his own people, perhaps because of that. His land sales were done by permission of the government, but did not have permission of his own people, I think. It will all be sorted out in the negotiations going on now, I guess, as they will have to sort out title for every parcel in the Haldimand Tract.
Canada exists by the grace of the Crown. Our Constitution was enacted through the British Parliament (1982) and required "the Queen's command". We had to fight for the right to make changes to it ourselves, but permission was granted. Howeverm the Governor General has the powers of the Queen ... the Head of State ... for Canada. The other issue is, of course, that a "nation" must have a legal land mass. Right now, with all of the outstanding aboriginal land titles, that is very unclear, and would be not a slam dunk if it ever came to the crunch in the International courts or at the UN. There is a discussion of these issues here:
http://www.reclamationinfo.com/phpBB2/v ... n&start=30Canada sovereign?
The Queen's Proclamation of our Constitution called us an "independent" country, but not a sovereign country. I recall there was quite a bit of uproar about that back then.
So ... we are independent, but not sovereign and our ownership of a land mass is questionable. I guess if push came to shove, we could dump the queen ... but I think she would have to agree, and our status would still be dicey, I think. For most purposes, it simply doesn't matter, but there could be times when it does, so I think it's good to be aware.
... and Caledonia ... I believe all crimes of note have been duly charged and as of yesterday, all arrested. None would have happened at all if there had not been a police raid, ordered by the Hennings (developers) in collusion with the Judge, himself an 'owner' of land in the disputed Haldimand Tract. Bit of a mistake on his part, and it is now in the Appeal Court.
The 'anarchy' that has reigned there this summer has been from a group of Caledonians who just don't like "Indians" and they are pretty clear about that. They live close to the site. Many of their neighbours have no problem and are supportive of the land claim, but there are those who just cannot tolerate the presence of Six Nations people, I guess, and they have made their feelings known sure have had the police hopping ... but just with foolishness ... very expensive foolishness. Their neighbours experience no problems, but the few seem to think they have ongoing problems. I don't know ... maybe they are just anxiety cases, but they are costing a lot of money in policing. There have been hoaxes pulled by them too, just to get the police hopping. I watched the 'timbit' ladies one night after they had called in a hoax. Cripes, the tactical squad was there, the MELT team and numerous other officers and vehicles ... and these timbit ladies are listening to their scanners and laughing at the mayhem they caused!
Well ... that's a long answer. I can only assume you are interested in these topics.
I am curious, EyeBrock fan, what is your take on the Mohawk role in the War of 1812 ... ?
VicVega @ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:33 pm
I see a lot of your people stole our land and we only have this little bit left, and how unfair the system is blah blah blah. Im not a racist by any means but by your logic the cajun peoples of Louisianna have a right to part of Nova Scotia as the english kicked thier asses out a few hundred years ago, and "Stole" their land.
Or even worse, imagine being ripped from your homeland completely and transported halfway around the world to be someone's slave. This is exactly what happened to groups of Africans a few hundred years ago when the slave trade was at its highest. Their decendants were given one time reperations and told to go about their lives.
In no other country do a conqured people have such rights as they do here. The spanish government does not pay natives in Mexico monthly stipends for being native, and the conquestadors were arguably worse to the indigionous population than the English or French were to our native people. Nor does the Australian government to the Aborigionies.
But the inherient problem in this issue is that of racism, on both sides. Travisty's were commited, admitedly. The residential schools were a mistake. Reserves are outdated. The problem occurs and continues to occur when non natives point their fingers and call them lazy, freeloaders, addicts, or otherwise. The problem further escalates when Native point their fingers back and say that it is the anglo and francophones of this country that did this, and continue to do this to them.
It is time to make good once and for all, in the form of a financial reperation payment. Then put all of our preconceptions, all of our hatred, and our racism aside and move together as one people, as Canadians. Because after all, we are no longer a seperate people with a seperate destiny like we were 100 years ago, we are all Canadian.
Vic