Indian Apartheid
saga @ Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:31 am
VicVega VicVega:
The main problem with your argument is that you seem dead set against aknowledging any wrong doing on the native side of things. It seems in your eyes that all the fault lies with the whites of this country, or at least our ancestors. The first step toward any solution is realizing the mistakes made on both sides.
maybe it's time to relook at the situations, and throw the treaties out. For the good of our nation it is time that all the people of this country, indigenous, generational, or landed, move together as a united force.
One land, one people, one Canada.
I wonder if you would feel the same in their position?
If your 'tenant' stole your home by getting you to sign it away deviously.
Then he says 'That's SO yesterday and I've been letting you live here free ... I even buy the groceries. Just get over it and let's move on, together in harmony!"
Would you agree? ... or would you take him to court?
VicVega @ Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:20 am
saga saga:
VicVega VicVega:
The main problem with your argument is that you seem dead set against aknowledging any wrong doing on the native side of things. It seems in your eyes that all the fault lies with the whites of this country, or at least our ancestors. The first step toward any solution is realizing the mistakes made on both sides.
maybe it's time to relook at the situations, and throw the treaties out. For the good of our nation it is time that all the people of this country, indigenous, generational, or landed, move together as a united force.
One land, one people, one Canada.
I wonder if you would feel the same in their position?
If your 'tenant' stole your home by getting you to sign it away deviously.
Then he says 'That's SO yesterday and I've been letting you live here free ... I even buy the groceries. Just get over it and let's move on, together in harmony!"
Would you agree? ... or would you take him to court?
If he did it to me, ya I would take him to court. If he did it to an ancestor of mine, I wouldnt do a damn thing. I certainly wouldnt expect his desendants to buy me a new house based on the fact that my great great great great grandfather got swindled. 200 hundred years is a long time, and it's high time to move on.
Well said USCAdad, one people, one contenient, one world.
saga @ Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:34 pm
What year would you pick as the cutoff, beyond which Canada would not honour its treaties? These things have to be looked at carefully you know ... wouldn't want to accidentally give ourselves away or anything, haha ... and it's a bit tricky because there are some other old treaties we might want to keep ... so where's the cutoff?
...........
One land one people one world ... whateverrrrr ... what you mean is 'my way or the highway'.
... but the highway is on their land too!
... and I am Canadian and I don't like your way either.
This will not be resolved by saying it should just go away.
There are laws involved.
Canadian laws.
And throwing the treaties out is not a new idea. That is why Canada cheated them out of the land in the first place ... because Indigenous people were supposed to disappear. Well they didn't, and our dishonourable behaviour has come back to bite us in the butt. Too bad it's y/our generation ... but that's life. Suck it up. Move on. It's just a rearrangement of the land, and a 1-2% tax increase. No big deal. Not worth a war.
The law is in progress through negotiations. Be prepared to accept the government's decision. After all, Canada is the 'accused' and the judge so I think Canada defends itself ably by stacking the deck! 
Knoss Knoss:
I think the problem is not with the reserves althought I am not sure about the rules for land ownership. there is the problem of first nations businesses, I think such state owned for profit buisinesses are too much risk and offer to little benifit tot he average citizen, but that is a differnt issue wich is begining to afect other municipalties.
I think the bigger problem are biased tax laws and laws for fur traplines or fisheries which presume all aboigenals have such rural occupations and that makes it difficult for a non aborigenal to live such a lifestyle, it closes off the reserves to mulit-culturalism, why can't a white person or an immagant from Nairobi live on the reserve run a trapline in winter and a fishery in summer, and why shouldn't this person be able to vote, or run for tribal counsil, or cheif?
Because of the color of your skin, whitey.........j/k
Knoss @ Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:00 pm
$1:
If your 'tenant' stole your home by getting you to sign it away deviously.
Then he says 'That's SO yesterday and I've been letting you live here free ... I even buy the groceries. Just get over it and let's move on, together in harmony!"
Would you agree? ... or would you take him to court?
What if that person sold the house who sold it someone elese who toer it down and sold it to someone elese who buildt an office tower worth 100 times as much covering 10 other lots in what is now a commericl district so you couldn't build a house their anyways. Menawhile you got old and died your children got old and died and you grandchildren have homes of their own?
Isn't there a statute of limitations for theft?ie I'm pretty sure that I have no legal claim over anything that was stolen from my great-grandfather. Is that because I'm a round eyed whitey?
Doesn't the CCHRF garantee me procedureal fairness? ie the laws are supposed to be enforced equally to all Canadians.
I want native indians to have all the rights that I have, but there's a catch to this....I want all their rights, too.
saga @ Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:54 pm
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Isn't there a statute of limitations for theft?ie I'm pretty sure that I have no legal claim over anything that was stolen from my great-grandfather. Is that because I'm a round eyed whitey?
Doesn't the CCHRF garantee me procedureal fairness? ie the laws are supposed to be enforced equally to all Canadians.
I want native indians to have all the rights that I have, but there's a catch to this....I want all their rights, too.
Aboriginal rights and freedoms not affected by Charter
25. The guarantee in this Charter of certain rights and freedoms shall not be construed so as to abrogate or derogate from any aboriginal, treaty or other rights or freedoms that pertain to the aboriginal peoples of Canada including
(a) any rights or freedoms that have been recognized by the Royal Proclamation of October 7, 1763; and
(b) any rights or freedoms that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired. (92)
This is Canada's Constitutional Law, and it is not just Canada dealing with issues of land and sovereignty rights of Indigenous peoples ... it is a worldwide thing. All former colonies have this issue.
How we deal with it will certainly affect our international reputation.
It's an open book now.
No hiding.
There will be new arrangements of land and governance.
Royal Proclamation, October 7, 1763
saga saga:
What year would you pick as the cutoff,
2006.
saga saga:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Isn't there a statute of limitations for theft?ie I'm pretty sure that I have no legal claim over anything that was stolen from my great-grandfather. Is that because I'm a round eyed whitey?
Doesn't the CCHRF garantee me procedureal fairness? ie the laws are supposed to be enforced equally to all Canadians.
I want native indians to have all the rights that I have, but there's a catch to this....I want all their rights, too.
Aboriginal rights and freedoms not affected by Charter25. The guarantee in this Charter of certain rights and freedoms shall not be construed so as to abrogate or derogate from any aboriginal, treaty or other rights or freedoms that pertain to the aboriginal peoples of Canada including
(a) any rights or freedoms that have been recognized by the Royal Proclamation of October 7, 1763; and
(b) any rights or freedoms that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired. (92)
This is Canada's Constitutional Law, and it is not just Canada dealing with issues of land and sovereignty rights of Indigenous peoples ... it is a worldwide thing. All former colonies have this issue.
How we deal with it will certainly affect our international reputation.
It's an open book now.
No hiding.
There will be new arrangements of land and governance.
Royal Proclamation, October 7, 1763
Thats a good find, thanks. But lets talk in terms that rednecks like me can understand...............so what you are saying is I really don't have no legal claim over anything that was stolen from my great-grandfather.And it is because I'm a round eyed whitey.
saga @ Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:51 pm
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
saga saga:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Isn't there a statute of limitations for theft?ie I'm pretty sure that I have no legal claim over anything that was stolen from my great-grandfather. Is that because I'm a round eyed whitey?
Doesn't the CCHRF garantee me procedureal fairness? ie the laws are supposed to be enforced equally to all Canadians.
I want native indians to have all the rights that I have, but there's a catch to this....I want all their rights, too.
Aboriginal rights and freedoms not affected by Charter25. The guarantee in this Charter of certain rights and freedoms shall not be construed so as to abrogate or derogate from any aboriginal, treaty or other rights or freedoms that pertain to the aboriginal peoples of Canada including
(a) any rights or freedoms that have been recognized by the Royal Proclamation of October 7, 1763; and
(b) any rights or freedoms that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired. (92)
This is Canada's Constitutional Law, and it is not just Canada dealing with issues of land and sovereignty rights of Indigenous peoples ... it is a worldwide thing. All former colonies have this issue.
How we deal with it will certainly affect our international reputation.
It's an open book now.
No hiding.
There will be new arrangements of land and governance.
Royal Proclamation, October 7, 1763Thats a good find, thanks. But lets talk in terms that rednecks like me can understand...............so what you are saying is I really don't have no legal claim over anything that was stolen from my great-grandfather.And it is because I'm a round eyed whitey.

Not exactly.
It's because you are not Aboriginal and do not have Aboriginal rights.
It is the rule of law in Canada.
It's a worldwide thing in former colonies.
Tricks @ Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:01 pm
saga saga:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
saga saga:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Isn't there a statute of limitations for theft?ie I'm pretty sure that I have no legal claim over anything that was stolen from my great-grandfather. Is that because I'm a round eyed whitey?
Doesn't the CCHRF garantee me procedureal fairness? ie the laws are supposed to be enforced equally to all Canadians.
I want native indians to have all the rights that I have, but there's a catch to this....I want all their rights, too.
Aboriginal rights and freedoms not affected by Charter25. The guarantee in this Charter of certain rights and freedoms shall not be construed so as to abrogate or derogate from any aboriginal, treaty or other rights or freedoms that pertain to the aboriginal peoples of Canada including
(a) any rights or freedoms that have been recognized by the Royal Proclamation of October 7, 1763; and
(b) any rights or freedoms that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired. (92)
This is Canada's Constitutional Law, and it is not just Canada dealing with issues of land and sovereignty rights of Indigenous peoples ... it is a worldwide thing. All former colonies have this issue.
How we deal with it will certainly affect our international reputation.
It's an open book now.
No hiding.
There will be new arrangements of land and governance.
Royal Proclamation, October 7, 1763Thats a good find, thanks. But lets talk in terms that rednecks like me can understand...............so what you are saying is I really don't have no legal claim over anything that was stolen from my great-grandfather.And it is because I'm a round eyed whitey.

Not exactly.
It's because you are not Aboriginal and do not have Aboriginal rights.
It is the rule of law in Canada.
It's a worldwide thing in former colonies.
So why is it that aboriginals have more rights then we do? Is this implying they are superior? Shall we come back to your rediculous Hitler idea?
Frankly, we have paid of the land. When we subsidise the natives like we have, we have more then paid for the land. So kiss my ass.
saga saga:
not exactly.
It's because you are not Aboriginal and do not have Aboriginal rights.
It is the rule of law in Canada.
It's a worldwide thing in former colonies.
You can dress up that hog with a buttermilk bath and a pretty bow in his hair but he's still a pig. Discrimination based on race, colour, creed or religion has no place in modern Canada. There was a time you could legally own a native in the colonies which would eventually become Canada. I don't see you pushing for the right to possess slaves.
This is a fairly liberal site and support for one Canada one People is running at 80%. Your time of exclusion and apartheid are coming to an end. You can’t keep natives from their rightful participation in Canadian society as full and equal citizens forever.
marge simpson: "Hmmmmmm...."
QBC @ Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:07 pm
Is it possible to give this subject a rest for awhile????????
Saga, you've basically posted the exaxt same post time, after time, after time, with only a slight wording change to make it look like it's a new post. People are simply going to tune you out if you keep flogging this dead horse day, after day. Isn't there anything else going on in this country that you have even a remote interest in? Maybe talk about those things from time to time.
Tman1 @ Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:21 pm
I was wondering why there was a "slight" increase in Native issues lately. Indeed, everytime I see Saga as the last poster on the topic I avoid it knowing full well what it will contain....