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One of my favorites Democratic illusions; Kennedy was really a peace-nick and wanted America out of that war, and that's why the evil war-mongering Republicans had him killed.

   

All the vietnamese wanted us to leave, the south vietnamese may not have wanted northern rule but nor did they want to be under the thumb of some US installed fascist dictator like the US did to Chile a few years later.

The vietnamese more then anything else wanted to be independent of foreign rule, its why they fought the French, its why they fought the Americans, and its why they fought China. Anyone who thought that vietnam was taking orders from moscow, or beijing was a fool of themselves, the vietnamese only tolerated them so long as it helped them keep their country independent of colonial rule.

That exact same motivation, this time the fear of Chinese occupation, is what has pushed the US approval rating up in recent years.



You should watch the movie "Fog of War" if you want to know the real reason we lost.

   

Uh-huh.

   

The Vietnamese hated America. Right. That's why there's 80,000 of them here in Sacramento all flying the US and South Vietnamese flags and any of those people will happily hand you your head if you defend Communism. The press did not report it, but about 40,000 of them marched on the California capitol when the VC president spoke to the Commies in the California Legislature last month.

   

I'm sure when the US troops forced them into relocation camps, torched their villages, dumped agent orange on them, shot civilians in free fire zones, and subjected them to corrupt dictators that they absolutely loved the americans for it

Why is nationalism so hard for you to understand, you are after all highly nationalistic, imagine your reaction if a harsh muslim dictator took power of the midwest by having his troops assault anyone who voted against him, who preceded to have his police roam through the streets assualting christians, while he instituted a strict interpretation of sharia through his support from the middle east.

And when he was finally assaulted just exactly how would you react to the Saudi forces which came to forcibly occupy the mid-west, who using vicious chemical weapons and free fire zones, killed millions of civilians all the while burning towns, and throwing the inhabitants into relocation camps. And you just might have an idea of why the Vietnamese really didn't like the US.

And before you begin your criticism of my example, remember all you need to do is to switch muslim, for catholic, christian, for buddhist, Saudi-Arabia for US, and Midwest for Vietnam.

Oh and I almost forgot, as far as North Vietnam invading South Vietnam inviolation of the treaty, the two were supposed to be unified and have elections back in 56 but that was stopped by the US backed Diem.

   

I think you listened to John Kerry's bullshit to much about Ghengis Khan and the free fire zones.

   

They hated us. That's why they were all so happy to see us leave and that they all happily stayed in the Workers Paradise created by Uncle Ho. Yes, the whole exodus after the invasion never happened...in your world.



Why is linear logic so hard for you to understand?



You mean like what the Muslims want to do in Ontario?



And that's why so many of them died trying to reach the USA after the invasion - they were out for revenge by becoming productive American citizens.



Oops, too late.



WTF?



We were not in Indochina in 1956. France was.

Like it or not, a fairly recent thread on this site quoted a survey that showed more people in Vietnam approve of America than any other country in the world.

They freaking love us. Even their freaking Commies love us.

   

Oh gee it couldn't have been that the US effectively salted the earth for generations to come? That the US has massacred millions of civilians in the war and ensured that those who did remain would starve if they didn't succombe to the chemicals we left there. Anyone who could would go anywhere after what we did to their country.



Learn some history this will barely scratch the surface of what the US supported in Vietnam... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duong_Van_Minh



They were to the point where they would light themselves on fire to call attention to just what the US was doing to them for no other reason then that they were buddhist and of a different skin color the US looked the other way.



The French war was funded almost exclusively by the US. Further more they withdrew in 54, So no, france wasn't in vietnam in 56, they learned their lesson about engaging in a land war in asia.



What did I just say about the Vietnamese culture? Could it have been that they value their independence over all else? Could it be that we're seen as the only bulwark against the PLA, and thus its the only reason we are liked? Could it be that I was refering to those very poll figues?

The US ruined vietnam, and your bastardization and revisionism is an insult to the millions of civilians who died horrible deaths.

I'm done with this, I am not going to waste my time arguing with a bigot such as yourself.

   

TD curses like a sailor when he gets into it!

   

Agreed. The Americans did have auxiliary objectives (some were geopolitical) but their primary objective was certainly rebuffed by British Regulars, Canadian militia and Amerindian warriors. Besides, British North America certainly achieved its war aims.

   

Canada's part in the war was a huge success (obviously) over the U.S and in that was a Canadian/British victory. Second stage of the war between Britian/U.S was a stalemate with the U.S actually winning consessions but British to tired after the Napoleonic wars to care. Both invasions failed.

1st part of war = Victory
2nd part = stalemate..... you decide.

   

Care to try that war again big fella? Yeah, I thought so.

   

You thought so what?

   

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