Canada Kicks Ass
George Galloway on Israel and Lebanon

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BartSimpson @ Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:39 pm

Calgary123 Calgary123:
At any rate, allow me to apologize for getting rather nasty with my comments relative to some of your posts over the last week or so. Some of your thoughts on the Israeli/Lebanon conflict got under my skin, and I typically don't get quite that emotional. :oops: I'm sure deep down, you're a good guy.


I try to be a good guy. "Try" being the functional word here!

No worries about hard feelings, I don't hold grudges as they're unhealthy and life is too short for that crap. A fair number of folks on here can tell you that while we still don't always agree we are civil despite our periodic flame wars.

One of the people I'm closest to on this site would be DerbyX and he and I have had more than a few scorched-earth flame-wars.

I'm more than happy to consider you another of my friends from the other side of the aisle!

   



Banff @ Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:11 pm

Good post Calgary 123 , Opposition is a good thing George did an amazing job . Don't worry about what Bart says ...he's a patriot so regardless what he may feel deep down about Bush or this war he would still shake hands with Bush and support the cause .

   



Calgary123 @ Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:49 pm

BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Calgary123 Calgary123:
At any rate, allow me to apologize for getting rather nasty with my comments relative to some of your posts over the last week or so. Some of your thoughts on the Israeli/Lebanon conflict got under my skin, and I typically don't get quite that emotional. :oops: I'm sure deep down, you're a good guy.


I try to be a good guy. "Try" being the functional word here!

No worries about hard feelings, I don't hold grudges as they're unhealthy and life is too short for that crap. A fair number of folks on here can tell you that while we still don't always agree we are civil despite our periodic flame wars.

One of the people I'm closest to on this site would be DerbyX and he and I have had more than a few scorched-earth flame-wars.

I'm more than happy to consider you another of my friends from the other side of the aisle!


I hear ya... I "try" as well to not allow my emotions get the best of me in these exchanges. I'm actually a pretty even-keeled guy, and try to keep the debate on these issues to the facts. I'm well aware of the fact that there will be differences in opinions... I, (like yourself) happen to feel that I'm "right" when it comes to my perspective... but I've been proven to be wrong before, and will always entertain anothers opinion if it's delivered in logical and factual based argument.

I think we'll continue to have our "differences" when it comes to certain things... I have no doubt about that. But at the end of the day, you're still my neighbor, and will respect that.

I've got my Tin foil hat... you've got your M-16 :lol:

   



PluggyRug @ Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:53 pm

Hey Calgary123 consider the hatchet buried. :wink:

   



Calgary123 @ Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:03 pm

Banff Banff:
Good post Calgary 123 , Opposition is a good thing George did an amazing job . Don't worry about what Bart says ...he's a patriot so regardless what he may feel deep down about Bush or this war he would still shake hands with Bush and support the cause .


Thanks,

I thought he did a FANTASTIC job in articulating the case for how the media has "spun" this conflict into a "good guy victim" (Israel) vs. "bad guy" (Hezbolloh)...

Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, the fact that he is promoting a "peace" plan that makes sense... rather than support the war-mongering is admirable. At the end of the day, he is right about one thing:

There will be no peace, without justice. After this war is all said and done, there will be negotiations and a plan... one that hopefully works for both nations. My beef all along has been/ and always will be... that this could have taken place before Israel made a decision to invade and destroy Lebanon like they have. This type of action will only breed more contempt and hatred on the part of the Lebanese people, and will not solve the problems that goes back decades... like George stated.

The fact that America has rallied behind Israel and our media has picked a side in this conflict is not right IMO. The average Joe who watches 5 minutes of the news every day only has one choice... rally behind (the "victims") Israel as their settlements get bombed by random rocket fire. Without "fair and balanced" coverage, we have a media that is keeping the public "dumb" and uninformed. That to me, is injustice.

   



Scape @ Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:04 pm

Zipperfish Zipperfish:
My problem with Galloway is that he ascribes evil intent to those that disagree with him.


In reference to the video debate posted the crux of the argument is that this debacle goes back decades and the thousands of prisoners languishing in prisons from an illegal invasion in the 1st place. So yes, Galloway has every right to paint this in the most stark contrast because the current conflict is most deserving of it.

The issue of Shebaa farms isn't going to be resolved on its own.

   



Calgary123 @ Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:12 pm

PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Hey Calgary123 consider the hatchet buried. :wink:


I'm not so sure about you Pluggy... you really hurt my feelings with all the "tin-foil hat" cracks you've made through my 911 threads :cry:

8)

   



Tricks @ Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:17 pm

Calgary123 Calgary123:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Hey Calgary123 consider the hatchet buried. :wink:


I'm not so sure about you Pluggy... you really hurt my feelings with all the "tin-foil hat" cracks you've made through my 911 threads :cry:

8)
Want my tin foil kleenex? :twisted:

   



Calgary123 @ Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:21 pm

Tricks Tricks:
Calgary123 Calgary123:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Hey Calgary123 consider the hatchet buried. :wink:


I'm not so sure about you Pluggy... you really hurt my feelings with all the "tin-foil hat" cracks you've made through my 911 threads :cry:

8)
Want my tin foil kleenex? :twisted:


No thanks Tricks... already got a box. :wink:

   



PluggyRug @ Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:59 pm

Calgary123 Calgary123:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Hey Calgary123 consider the hatchet buried. :wink:


I'm not so sure about you Pluggy... you really hurt my feelings with all the "tin-foil hat" cracks you've made through my 911 threads :cry:

8)


Well I ran out of tinfoil, so now my hands are tied. PDT_Armataz_01_09

   



GunPlumber @ Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:09 am

Kind of a blah day-off (after 15 straight 12 hour shifts). Thought I'd do some cooking and cleaning and check-in what's new at CKA.

Mygawd does Galloway ever own that stupid bitch!

"Oh please, try to have a memory longer than four weeks,..."

That would've been the cue for a semi-intelligent person to suckback and reload, but this wench not only let's Galloway lead her to the edge of the minefield, she then proceeds to blaze a path of her own right thorugh it. Unfuckingbelievable!

If Israel had intended to unite the various faction grappling at power in Lebanon, their plan has succeeded brilliantly.

Hezbollah enjoys 87% support among Lebanese, Sunnis and Shiites are fighting side-by-side, the Druze are talking of joining the fight against the invasion and Lebanon's PM is threatening to call-up 15,000 Reservists and commit them to stopping Israel. I wouldn't be at all surprised if, when the U.N.'s crass ceasefires are rejected, that the Arab League puts it's weight behind the freedom fighters. If not militarily, then economically (can you say nineteen-seventy-three? I knew you could).

[hr]

Lebanon Will Not Accept a One-Sided Ceasefire That Seeks To Blame Someone Other Than Israel

Israel was taken by surprise when Lebanon announced Monday it would deploy 15,000 troops to southern Lebanon after a ceasefire and complete withdrawal of Israeli forces.

Olmert called the proposal "interesting" but aides said an international force would need to support those Lebanese soldiers.

Lebanese President Emile Lahoud, in an interview with CTV's Janis Mackey Frayer, was pessimistic about the outcome of the offer.

"Israel got us used to her and we know that every time it comes to a point where they could be a kind of peace, Israel will throw it away and find any excuse to continue its wars," he said.

He also said the Lebanese army would fight beside Hezbollah if necessary.

"If the army is being attacked, if the land of Lebanon is being occupied, it is the duty of the Lebanese army to fight Israel."


...

If that comes to pass, it would be virtually impossible for Syria (and possibly Iran) to stay on the sidelines.

[hr]

Eric Margolis (always a favourite target of the ultra-rightists) has an interesting perspective on the cause(s) of the latest flare-up.

A Foolardy War, Unleashed By Fools

To find out what’s really going on in Israel, I turn to that nation’s finest newspaper, `Haaretz.’

Last week, `Hareetz’ columnist Doron Rosenblum, wrote a remarkable, explosive analysis that no one would ever dare print in North America, where any criticism of Israel brings a storm of abuse and often terminates careers.

The real cause of the latest Lebanon war, wrote Rosenblum was not seizure of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbullah, but an earlier TV speech by Hezbullah’s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, that provoked Israel’s leaders to fury and an act of supreme folly.

Nasralleh taunted Israel’s new triumvirate of PM Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Amir Peretz, and Chief of Staff Dan Halutz, sneering they were `small’ compared to Ariel Sharon. `Adding fuel to the fire,’ wrote Rosenblum, `Nasrallah emphasized the `small’ with his fingers.’

According to Rosenblum, `bad-tempered’ Olmert, `egocentric’ Peretz, and `arrogant Halutz’ flew into rages at this grave Levantine insult to their manhood, and sought to prove they could out-Sharon Sharon by turning a minor skirmish into an all-out war.

This sounds bizarre, but remember, George Bush Sr invaded Panama after its ruler, Gen. Manuel Noriega, called him as a `wimp.’

Israel’s old Lebanese curse just keeps getting worse. A number of respected press agencies have reported the skirmish that triggered this war didn’t occur in Israel, as Israel claims, but just inside Lebanon.

If true, this would hugely embarrass Israel and sink it deeper into the hole it has already dug itself after laying waste Lebanon and killing scores of civilians at Qana with a US-supplied missile.

Israel first claimed it was targeting missile launchers firing from Qana. Its amen chorus in North America went into high volume to justify the attack.

But Israel’s military now admits there were no rockets being fired from Qana the day of the attack. A decade ago, Israeli artillery killed 106 civilians there.

   



BartSimpson @ Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:33 am

Banff Banff:
Good post Calgary 123 , Opposition is a good thing George did an amazing job . Don't worry about what Bart says ...he's a patriot so regardless what he may feel deep down about Bush or this war he would still shake hands with Bush and support the cause .


I thought Galloway did a much better job of articulating and defending his position than George Bush ever did.

Bush is awful at communicating his ideas but, still, no small number of moderate Democrats have supported his policies because they see past the political rhetoric to understand that the Iraq war is about more than just Iraq. It is merely the most recent battle in a greater war that started over a thousand years ago. Defeating Wahhabist islam is the goal of this war and it has become a war of attrition on multiple fronts.

It is a war that is being fought in the Phillipines, Thailand, Bali, Indonesia, Myanmar, western China, India, Sri Lanka, Denmark, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Canada, and so many more places than I care to list.

Leaving Iraq unilaterally will be a propaganda victory for the Wahhabists and it will embolden them to do more. Leaving the thousands of Iraqis who took us at our word and signed up to back their nascent democracy will be despicable.

Our withdrawal from Iraq before the job is done will consign these people to certain death. Thousands of very brave, decent, self-sacrificing people who believe that a democracy can succeed in an Arab country will die.

Any of those people would make fine Americans and they would also make fine Canadians.

Regardless of why the war started the reasons to win it include the thousands of people who believe in freedom the same as we do. I've had them fight by my side and I've trained them and they love their country and they love freedom and liberty and they absolutely know that they will be murdered by the Wahhabists and the radical shiites if we fail.

Let their blood be on the hands of those who would have us retreat from our obligations.

   



BartSimpson @ Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:36 am

PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Calgary123 Calgary123:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Hey Calgary123 consider the hatchet buried. :wink:


I'm not so sure about you Pluggy... you really hurt my feelings with all the "tin-foil hat" cracks you've made through my 911 threads :cry:

8)


Well I ran out of tinfoil, so now my hands are tied. PDT_Armataz_01_09


Here's some more for you...

Image

   



Zipperfish @ Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:39 am

Scape Scape:
In reference to the video debate posted the crux of the argument is that this debacle goes back decades and the thousands of prisoners languishing in prisons from an illegal invasion in the 1st place. So yes, Galloway has every right to paint this in the most stark contrast because the current conflict is most deserving of it.

The issue of Shebaa farms isn't going to be resolved on its own.


You've got Israel on one side, who claim not to target civilians and yet the large majority of the Lebanese casualites are civilian. Then you've got Hezbollah that "deliberately" targets civilians but have killed mostly Israeli soldiers. The kindest thing you could say about that is that both sides are incompetent in their stated goals.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned the debacle goes back to the Hebrews and Philistines and the book of Genesis. These people will never get along.

So my point of view is that we limit Canada's liability on the issue, which, in my opinion, would mean a neutral stance. We have limited stake in the region, and no power over events there. We should issue a few statements calling for peace in the region, but a policy of non-engagement and abstinence in UN votes concerned with the region.

   



Zipperfish @ Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:44 am

$1:
Hezbollah enjoys 87% support among Lebanese, Sunnis and Shiites are fighting side-by-side, the Druze are talking of joining the fight against the invasion and Lebanon's PM is threatening to call-up 15,000 Reservists and commit them to stopping Israel.


I don't think that it bothers Israel too much what kind of support Hezbollah has. Thye seem to have adopted a scorched earth policy whereby the piss off prtety much everyone in Lebanon but leave in a position of unable to do anything about it.

Every time someone says that Israel is uniting their enemy or creating more terrorists, I'm reminded of a great quote by iconclastic writer William Burroughs:

$1:
“I don’t care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it.”

   



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