In Congo, 1,000 die per day: Why isn't it a media story?

BartSimpson @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:17 pm

Scape Scape:

Boer War

Apartheid

Yes, British colonies like Canada, South Africa, India and Canada did prosper but the natives did not, they were treated like commodities. It was Cecil Rhodes who declared Africans as savages and exploited them as such.

And the Africans are working hard to prove Mr. Rhodes correct.

BartSimpson @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:19 pm

The Dark Canuck The Dark Canuck:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The Dark Canuck The Dark Canuck:

gideon gideon:

lily lily:

I think there was a 3rd party that didn't agree.

Or do you think people are actually commodities?

They're commodities if their countrymen trade them as commodities.

If the africans had a problem with the commercial transactions in which their countries engaged, they should have petitioned their leaders to stop the deal.

The fact that they allowed it to continue means that they condoned it and that accepted whatever consequences it brought.

Africa's problems are of her own making.

Your an idiot. The Africans didn't sell themselves, the British sold the Africans to other Brits, the African people were exploited to the bone. Don't you think they TRIED to fight back? Sure they did! But the Africans never had a chance againts the British. The British colonists used unknown tactics and weapons that the Africans could never have a need for, it was spears VS muskets. Who's going to win. It's just like the Aztecs and Cortez, you think that the Aztec people were used to fighting musketeers? No, they waged war in a much different and more honourable way, and thus they were sloughtered. I bet you blame the Native Americans for being massaccered out too, eh? :roll:

The Africans did sell other Africans into slavery. Check your facts. It still happens to this day, mind you.

The Aztecs did not wage war in an 'honourable' way. They captured people and ripped their living hearts out of their chests before tossing their corpses down the blood-stained steps of their pyramids. The Aztecs were cannibals and have been determined as the likely reason the Anasazi disappeared in the 1300s & 1400s. Aztec bodies have been found in the pueblo areas with human hemoglobin in their feces.
ish with stopping Aztec northward expansion. The Sun God was a hungry bastard and demanded blood to assure each new sunrise and the Aztecs were all too happy to appease that hunger.

The Native Americans failed to hold back Europ
The Navajo and Hopi tribes both credit the Spanean expansionism because the Europeans were superior culturally, militarily, and technologically. Had the Native Americans simply united themselves against the common foe they may well have driven the Europeans into the sea. But they could not set aside ancient hostilities long enough to defeat a common foe.

There is a lesson in that, I think, for everyone.

When I said honourable, I meant what was honourable by them. Different concepts of honour. I also meant that they faught face-to-face with the enamy and didn't just stand back and blast their enamy to hell. That was not my real point anyway.

The Africans weren't selling Africans, not the real Africans anyway. The only people in power were the ones put into power by the British, and they did the selling. Aye, probably some Africans sold other Africans, but I don't think that we shouldn't help a country simply because, what, 5% of their population did to the other 95%? They need our help and they're not getting it.

They've been getting our help and pissing it away as soon as it arrives. They will not arise from the darkness until they want to do it themselves.

Bigboy @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:20 pm

I heard Africa had East Indian slaves, anyone know when?

The Hoser @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:27 pm

How about this. Give me a REASONABLE situation in which Africa becomes a rich area. If you can, and it makes sense and is plausible, then I will gladly backdown and say that you are in fact right and that we should not help those less fortunate than us, even if it is againts everything I stand for.

gideon @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:33 pm

The Dark Canuck The Dark Canuck:

The Africans weren't selling Africans, not the real Africans anyway. The only people in power were the ones put into power by the British, and they did the selling. Aye, probably some Africans sold other Africans, but I don't think that we shouldn't help a country simply because, what, 5% of their population did to the other 95%? They need our help and they're not getting it.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you're correct.

Can you explain how this slave trade, which ended over 100 years ago, is keeping africa from getting its act together today?

Clearly they have no problem producing new africans to make up for the ones that were traded away. If anything, the slave trade improved the african economy, since it brought in money from abroad in exchange for a useful, renewable commodity.

gideon @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:38 pm

The Dark Canuck The Dark Canuck:

How about this. Give me a REASONABLE situation in which Africa becomes a rich area.

Typical leftist thinking. The reality of the situation is that they don't DESERVE to be rich. Nor do you, nor do I.

We are all born with different advantages and disadvantages. That's life. When you get out of grade school and enter the real world, you'll find out that it's up to each one of us to make the most of our own situation.

The fact that most africans have proven themselves utterly incompetent at contributing to the global economy is THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT. It is not the western world's job to bail them out, and indeed it hurts them in the long run when we take away their self sufficiency.

BartSimpson @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:39 pm

The Dark Canuck The Dark Canuck:

Sure...let them adopt whatever representational government they want and create a body of laws to live by. Then the test will come when they legislatively depose a corrupt leader and their military stands by the civilian government.

Ultimately, though, they must value individual rights in order for them to achieve collective success. If they can cherish the rights of their least citizens as much as they exalt their highest leaders then and only then will they arise and join the community of civilized nations.

Lord knows those people are sitting on a wealth of untapped resources and could be stultifyingly prosperous if only individuals were allowed to keep what they earned instead of losing it to some thug in a uniform.

The Hoser @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:03 pm

gideon gideon:

The Dark Canuck The Dark Canuck:

Oh, you are 100% correct. Having the strongest, healthies, fittist of the working force put on boats and shipped across the ocean REALLY does wonders for the econamy :roll:

BTW, What the fuck is up with that avatar?

The Hoser @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:08 pm

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The Dark Canuck The Dark Canuck:

The only problem is that the African people CAN'T rise up. for centuries the common people have been starved and completly destroyed. It would be 10,000 starving Africans againts 1,000 heavily armed soldiers on the Warlords payroll. For the 1,000, the Warlord pays them and feeds them, gave them a slightly better life than previously. Do you think that they would rise up againts them? Some would, sure. But not enough. Any attempt at a bloody coup without aide from another country would be a slaughter. And they can't simply depose a tyrannical leader who's family has ruled for a century, it cannot be done without bloodshed. Too much blood of the African people has already been shed.

gideon @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:22 pm

The Dark Canuck The Dark Canuck:

Oh, you are 100% correct. Having the strongest, healthies, fittist of the working force put on boats and shipped across the ocean REALLY does wonders for the econamy

If they were really the strongest, healthiest, and fittest, certainly they would have met with success back home and wouldn't have wound up in a situation where somebody was willing to trade them for a few bucks. It would be foolish to sell your best product at a below-market price, wouldn't it?

But hey, I'm not going to tell you what to think... YOU tell ME: judging from the work ethic and accomplishments displayed by the slaves' descendents, can you honestly say that the cream of Africa's crop was shipped overseas?

The Hoser @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:09 pm

gideon gideon:

The Dark Canuck The Dark Canuck:

Oh, you are 100% correct. Having the strongest, healthies, fittist of the working force put on boats and shipped across the ocean REALLY does wonders for the econamy

Market price? Product? Since when are human lives market products?

Heres a better question: If you had your very rights stripped down from you, and you were sold to some rich Penut farmer in the south, how high would your spirits be? How willing would you be to work? They were slaves, born and bred, they had no will power, no free thought! But they were still the strongest, the healthies, and the fittest people. They wouldn't have been shipped overseas otherwise.

BTW, WTF IS UP WITH THAT AVATAR.

Constantinople @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:11 pm

His avatar is of an innocent victim of Islamic Jihadists hungry for violence and the death of Westerners.

The Hoser @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:14 pm

Honestly.

Tman1 @ Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:15 pm

Pretty disturbing for an individual to go rooting around for pictures of dead people than posting it for an avatar.

gideon @ Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:00 am

The Dark Canuck The Dark Canuck:

Market price? Product? Since when are human lives market products?

In the days of the slave trade, that's exactly what they were. Your appeal to emotion distracts you from applying the basic principles of economics to the problem.

$1:

Heres a better question: If you had your very rights stripped down from you, and you were sold to some rich Penut farmer in the south, how high would your spirits be? How willing would you be to work?

You're dodging the question. The question pertains to the (free) descendents, not to the enslaved.

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