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What Sweden did or didn't do actually does indeed have a bearing on everything.

Nobody really gives a flying F*** what Sweden thinks.

One of their geologists recently exposed the IPCC as a bunch of politicized phonies and the lefties don't care.............

   

That must be why you guys keep belaboring the point!

   

Indeed they are, as is most of Europe.

   

Not that I disagree but how are we to ever get outside assistance without encouraging some sort of parley?

   

Agreed.
Some of my venom was directed at OPP who consistently annoys the crap out of me with his left-wing, anti-right wing, anti-military stance.
He knows little of Canada yet feels free to comment on something as sensitive to us all as Afghanistan.

As for the rest of Europe, there is little appetite for combat from those brave countries that make up Europe and the EU.
Save plucky Holland and those reliably warlike British, the Euros have been sadly lacking in the testicular dept when it comes to killing the enemies of our shared civilisation.

I think this democratic warrior stuff is a tad Anglo-Saxon for them. But we can always chat with them as our troops fight and die taking on our enemy.

   

I thought that was the case but wanted to be sure, carry on!



You forgot to mention Poland. I think Jon on the daily did a bit on that. Furthermore I think The Baltic states have been pitching in above their weight. France, Italy and Germany are the major absent NATO powers. Italy has been doing a bit but let face it their government it perpetually in the sate of an impending implosion so it's amazing they are deploying their troops at all. I wouldn't count on them. France seems to have a long history with its handling of Muslims and is gagged. They elected a right wing party but only by the slimmest of minorities. I wouldn't count on them either. Germany seems to be the best bet as long as Bush doesn't show up to give the Chancellor a back rub. I would love to see more Leo II in the field. The eastern block seem to be rather content to stay away from the mess that is the war on terror and I can't find fault really considering how botched a job was done on assembling the coalition of the willing to begin with. The best bet for aid would be India and Pakistan not the EU. If they can be kept on side then there may be hope yet.

   

Actually I forgot Poland. They do love to fight! I have worked with the Polish Military and we did get on rather well with them. There really is a big soft spot for Poland and the Polish in the UK, and I know the Poles are very grateful for US and EU support during the 1980's.

I totally agree with the rest of your post on the EU.

Re Afghanistan. That is an idea of brilliance. I never thought about India. They would be a major asset in this war.

That really is an excellent idea! India is poised for greatness. it's economy is booming. Mix that with a highly educated workforce they could improve the lot of it's vast and mostly poor population.

I do like that idea!

   

You are right in that there are EU NATO countries that simply are there for show and send token support like Spain and the former soviet eastern block countries (minus Romania of course). It's long since put up or shut up time for them. The major EU countries that have troops with caveats on them I'm not too concerned about like France and Germany because they are securing something at least.

   

This is so full of holes I don't know where to start...

First off, World War 2 and the war in Afghaistan are two very different wars.

One was a total war in which almost every Canadian/American/British citizen particpated (be it fighting, prducing weapons/ammunition/food/whatever), while the war in Afghanistan is a limited one in which it really only affects perhaps 100,000-300,000 Canadians (those deployed there and their families). Even if it affects 500,000, that is less than 2% of all Canadians.

The war against Nazi Germany and the Axis also had very clear goals, liberate Europe and crush them underfoot. Bomb a city, killing thousands, to shutdown a factory for a day or two, hey no problem. There was no postwar Nazi insurgency to deal with. The war in Afghanistan is far different. We can't just go in, bomb it into the Stone Age, occupy it for a few years and then leave. We have to rebuild the nation stome by stone, simply because it has been broken by decades of strife, mostly due to meddling by the superpowers. The supposed goal in Afghanistan is to rebuild their country to the point that they can stand on their feet again, but who judges when this will be? Us? Them? NATO? The USA? The UN?

Comparing this war to WW2 is a like comparing apples and oranges. THis is far more like Vietnam than most people realize. In that war, the Vietcong staged quite a successful guerilla campaign (at least until Tet), by operating from sanctuaries outside the US ability to bomb them. Same goes for this conflict; the Taliban show up where and when they want, hitting us and then slipping back into Pakistan. As long as they have a safe area to regroup, train and re-arm, we'll never truly be able to fully eliminate them.


Second off, the Western world are no longer world powers? You need to seriously re-evaluate what constitutes a world power. More than 2/3 of all defence spending is done by NATO/Western nations. Some people here (myself included) lament how much the CF has fallen from its levels in the 1960s, but the force we have today is far stronger than anything we had in peacetime before the Cold War started. Take a look at how big the navy was before WW1 or WW2, we are far ahead of where were then. Same goes for the air force and army. If you don't think the West are powers, then how come we haven't had a major war in more than 60 years. Trust me, even without the US, the West is still far more powerful than everyone else combined. Whether or not they have the will to use that force is another ballgame.

Lastly, this has nothing to do with "Liberal mentality' either. In case you have forgotten, the Liberals were in power for the entirety of WW2, and we won that conflict, so this is a total red herring.

   

Let me get this straight then because Sweden stayed neutral in the WW the people who live there Now have no say in what they think about Canadians being in Afganistan.? Like OPP ?Why not? I thought this Canadian Forums were for every body? From every country? OPP should not be blamed for what happened in the past .I like the different viewpoints from OPP personally.

   

and you telling me to f*ck off, 'cause I was not Canadian!

   

[quote="Avro2"]Leave on the deadline and let another NATO country take over, we've done our part and then some.[/quote

I read a couple of days ago that Canada is going to be still giving millions of dollars to help with the training of Judges,Canada has stated it will give 1 Billion more within 10 years time.

   

   

Plus the Dutch Army is kicking ass in Afghanistan. Unlike the rest of Euro NATO. I'll take a Dutch point of view on this topic.
But I won't take a view from a total pinky who comes from a country who's known for refusing to get involved while the world around it was invaded by Nazis, or the threats from the old Soviet Union.
Sweden has no credibility on these matters. Holland does.

   

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