A cold war with USA and China, which will Canada help?
Clogeroo @ Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:34 pm
$1:
Absolutely. I just don't see the free people of Taiwan inviting the slavemasters of Beijing to come into Taiwan and execute a bunch of them for standing up to Communist domination for the past sixty years. *If* Taiwan votes to reunify it will be after mainland China becomes a democracy, and even then, they may still choose full independence once the threat of Communist aggression is past.
Taiwan is actually quite divided on this. You have to remember martial law in this country didn't end until 1987 and democracy followed after. Many Chinese in Taiwan are actually pro China and don't want independence while others are pushing for it.
stratos @ Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:37 pm
My thought is are we, the US, obligated to still protect Taiwan if they vote to unify with China? I know we have said we would protect them if invaded but if they vote for China's rule would we then have to back off if China started sending in troupes? Or would we in some form or fashion still have to protect them from "invasion" from the main land?
dog77_1999 @ Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:26 pm
stratos stratos:
My thought is are we, the US, obligated to still protect Taiwan if they vote to unify with China? I know we have said we would protect them if invaded but if they vote for China's rule would we then have to back off if China started sending in troupes? Or would we in some form or fashion still have to protect them from "invasion" from the main land?
If Taiwan wants to be part of China, then I don't think the US would or should stop them.
They probaly would try to buy back the weapons though.
BartSimpson @ Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:58 pm
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
Many Chinese in Taiwan are actually pro China
Don't jump to conclusions here. The folks who are opposed to declaring independence are not necessarily pro-China but are pro-not-getting-bombed-by-China. They don't want to provoke a war and are happy with the status quo.
Shepherds Dog would be a good person to ask on this subject as he actually lives in Taiwan and could provide you more info on the dynamics of Taiwan politics. Perhaps you could PM him and ask him to comment?
BartSimpson @ Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:59 pm
stratos stratos:
My thought is are we, the US, obligated to still protect Taiwan if they vote to unify with China?
Nope. The pact we have with Taiwan states that if the two countries peacefully reunify we'll stay out of it.
Lord-Beaverbrook @ Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:03 pm
People are similar in their functions not their nationality. I believe that should such an event occur we remain neutral. Wars and aggressive action has only bred more aggression. History has given us about eight millenia of examples. A third option for the survey should have been added.
BartSimpson @ Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:41 pm
Lord-Beaverbrook Lord-Beaverbrook:
People are similar in their functions not their nationality. I believe that should such an event occur we remain neutral. Wars and aggressive action has only bred more aggression. History has given us about eight millenia of examples. A third option for the survey should have been added.
The USA has a treaty with Taiwan on this and unless either side withdraws from the treaty we fully intend to honour it if necessary.
Your attitude that we should step aside in the face of Chinese aggression sounds awfully familiar coming from someone with an English appellation.
ShepherdsDog @ Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:09 pm
It's never going to come to bloodshed. The only place that is pro independence is in the south part of the island. The rest are either pro unification or pro status quo. Currently there are about 1 million Taiwanese living in China and they are the biggest investors in China. The DPP's incomptence had ensured that the KMT will be back in power and many are predicting that in Ma's second term. the unification or foundation for it will be firmly in place. Unification is inevitable, war is not.
BartSimpson @ Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:29 pm
Do you see reunification coming absent political reform on the mainland?
ShepherdsDog @ Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:33 pm
yes. Concrete economics is more important than abstract political reforms to most of the Chinese. Having a benz means more than having a vote.
ridenrain @ Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:21 pm
Tokimini Tokimini:
ridenrain ridenrain:
Tokimini Tokimini:
Probably something as simple as passing on information. As a member of NORAD Canada would have access to a wealth of classified American military information that the Chinese would find very useful.
Why not something easier like stealing the high speed train designs from Seimans or the next new Shrek movie? Could we get paid with cheap, fake plasma? How about a slightly used but fresh liver or set of kidneys? Do you have a big tank of religious and political prisoners so we can pick the ones we want, just like at the restaurants?
$1:
BEIJING - Eighteen big hospitals in northeastern China have been using fake human albumin, or plasma protein, to treat patients, state television reported in the latest food and medicine scandal to hit the country. In regular checks made by the food and drug administration in Jilin province, seven of 36 batches of the albumin, fed into the bloodstream by drip, contained zero protein. (Reuters)
$1:
Roughly half of Canada's counter-intelligence efforts are devoted to one country: China. Beijing runs a massive spy program in Canada. One defector estimates the Chinese government has 1,000 spies and informants in the country.
"Canada, like Australia, can access the U.S. high-technology military information because these countries share information," said Chen Yonglin, a former Chinese foreign affairs official who defected in 2005. He was in Toronto and Ottawa this week to urge Canada to crack down on Chinese spying. "If China can't get it from the U.S., it can get it from Canada or Australia."
China's spy services painstakingly and patiently collect little bits of intelligence from the large number of Chinese who visit Canada - exchange students, scholars, scientists and, increasingly, entrepreneurs in the science and technology and research and development sectors.
"Canada, like Australia, can access the U.S. high-technology military information because these countries share information," said Chen Yonglin, a former Chinese foreign affairs official who defected in 2005. He was in Toronto and Ottawa this week to urge Canada to crack down on Chinese spying. "If China can't get it from the U.S., it can get it from Canada or Australia."
China's spy services painstakingly and patiently collect little bits of intelligence from the large number of Chinese who visit Canada - exchange students, scholars, scientists and, increasingly, entrepreneurs in the science and technology and research and development sectors.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news ... b549bb&k=0
Blow it out you're ass China.
You have me a bit confused. You initially seemed to be ridiculing my comment about Canada providing intelligence about the US to China, but then you throw in two other quotes that prove my point. I find it hard to believe about the Aussies though.
Yes, I am ridiculing you're starements. I will be very clear and blunt. I don't like THE GOVERNMENT of China. The people are fine but the ones we see here are not the average, but those weathy enough to get out. I am very suspicious of new people who start threads on these subjects with little or no background information. China is not ignorant of the web and they do have a sizeble abet pathetic web presence. It is my belief that Iamacanadian is one of those state trolls.
again:
It wasn't Canadian but it rings as true for all of us:
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.