A matter of compassion
fatbasturd @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:57 pm
snookums snookums:
At the risk of getting my head ripped off, I'll give my opinion on the whole seal/any animal hunt.
Cute or not, I don't usually have a big problem with hunting or killing an animal when its meant to be eaten. Humans are animals and it's part of nature that we do kill sometimes for our food. It's not really different than a lion killing a antelop for breakfast - we have to eat and meat is usually part of our diet (although I admit, I eat much less meat nowadays because I don't trust what the commercial 'farmers' are doing to the chicken/pig/cows, etc to get them so fat so fast.. But that's a whole other discussion
)
What I do have a big problem with is when we kill for our vanity. I understand that 300 years ago, synthetic fibres didn't exist and that fur (and wool) was the only thing that could keep us warm. Today, we don't NEED to kill a fox to keep warm, there are alternatives that don't involve killing.. Same thing for cosmetics and other 'enhancements' we use that has nothing to do with 'survival'. I wonder sometimes who the hell we think we are to decide that a fox/seal/any animal exist for our vanity. Imagine a wolf deciding to wear a moose jacket...
Hope I make sense
Cute or not, I don't usually have a big problem with hunting or killing an animal when its meant to be eaten. Humans are animals and it's part of nature that we do kill sometimes for our food. It's not really different than a lion killing a antelop for breakfast - we have to eat and meat is usually part of our diet (although I admit, I eat much less meat nowadays because I don't trust what the commercial 'farmers' are doing to the chicken/pig/cows, etc to get them so fat so fast.. But that's a whole other discussion
)What I do have a big problem with is when we kill for our vanity. I understand that 300 years ago, synthetic fibres didn't exist and that fur (and wool) was the only thing that could keep us warm. Today, we don't NEED to kill a fox to keep warm, there are alternatives that don't involve killing.. Same thing for cosmetics and other 'enhancements' we use that has nothing to do with 'survival'. I wonder sometimes who the hell we think we are to decide that a fox/seal/any animal exist for our vanity. Imagine a wolf deciding to wear a moose jacket...
$1:
So to go back to the seal hunt - I do have a problem with it, not because the pups are cute (I think cows are cute too!) but because most of the seals killed serve a purpose that I find disgusting (if it was for food only, that would be a different story)..
Hope I make sense
$1:
So to go back to the seal hunt - I do have a problem with it, not because the pups are cute (I think cows are cute too!) but because most of the seals killed serve a purpose that I find disgusting (if it was for food only, that would be a different story)..
So if I understand what you are saying correctly..you don't have any leather products in your home and you dont wear leather sneakers or shoes..and you have never used a wallet...ect ect ect.
fatbasturd @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:05 pm
lily lily:
fatbasturd fatbasturd:
...anyone think I should put my two cents in to a reply to our new member.
I get the impression she won't be back to read it anyway... she probably googled Canadian forums and post-spammed the lot of them.
"I'm interested though", she said with gleeful anticipation.
Well I could have typed out a long and well thought out responce...but I am getting pretty fucking tired of defending my region of our great country to people who don't live here , have no idea what they are talking about and really don't want to learn what really goes on in a seal harvast.
So in short what I will say is.....save the face for last it tastes the best.
VitaminC @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:21 pm
snookums snookums:
At the risk of getting my head ripped off, I'll give my opinion on the whole seal/any animal hunt.
Cute or not, I don't usually have a big problem with hunting or killing an animal when its meant to be eaten. Humans are animals and it's part of nature that we do kill sometimes for our food. It's not really different than a lion killing a antelop for breakfast - we have to eat and meat is usually part of our diet (although I admit, I eat much less meat nowadays because I don't trust what the commercial 'farmers' are doing to the chicken/pig/cows, etc to get them so fat so fast.. But that's a whole other discussion )
What I do have a big problem with is when we kill for our vanity. I understand that 300 years ago, synthetic fibres didn't exist and that fur (and wool) was the only thing that could keep us warm. Today, we don't NEED to kill a fox to keep warm, there are alternatives that don't involve killing.. Same thing for cosmetics and other 'enhancements' we use that has nothing to do with 'survival'. I wonder sometimes who the hell we think we are to decide that a fox/seal/any animal exist for our vanity. Imagine a wolf deciding to wear a moose jacket...
So to go back to the seal hunt - I do have a problem with it, not because the pups are cute (I think cows are cute too!) but because most of the seals killed serve a purpose that I find disgusting (if it was for food only, that would be a different story)..
Hope I make sense
Cute or not, I don't usually have a big problem with hunting or killing an animal when its meant to be eaten. Humans are animals and it's part of nature that we do kill sometimes for our food. It's not really different than a lion killing a antelop for breakfast - we have to eat and meat is usually part of our diet (although I admit, I eat much less meat nowadays because I don't trust what the commercial 'farmers' are doing to the chicken/pig/cows, etc to get them so fat so fast.. But that's a whole other discussion
)What I do have a big problem with is when we kill for our vanity. I understand that 300 years ago, synthetic fibres didn't exist and that fur (and wool) was the only thing that could keep us warm. Today, we don't NEED to kill a fox to keep warm, there are alternatives that don't involve killing.. Same thing for cosmetics and other 'enhancements' we use that has nothing to do with 'survival'. I wonder sometimes who the hell we think we are to decide that a fox/seal/any animal exist for our vanity. Imagine a wolf deciding to wear a moose jacket...
So to go back to the seal hunt - I do have a problem with it, not because the pups are cute (I think cows are cute too!) but because most of the seals killed serve a purpose that I find disgusting (if it was for food only, that would be a different story)..
Hope I make sense
I somewhat agree with your arguement. But the fact is that NewFoundlanders do kill seals for food. They do it for money that buys food and enables their survival....
If you have a problem with the killing for vanity thing, address the people who buy the fur, not the people who work for money for their families. You don't see seal seal hunters wearing fur coats.
I don't have a problem with showing someone a realistic portrayal of how an animal is killed and if that person eats or wears part of that animal.....But I doubt there is a factory somewhere full of people stabbing rabbits with a knife to make coats.....
More likely people from PETA killed the rabbit in the back of a van to make the recording.......
I do think if someone is prepared to wear a fur coat, they should be prepared to see how the animal is really treated, and then make a decision.
BluesBud @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:26 pm
Good point gang. Angell would have posted again by now if it wasn't a put up. I suspected as much. Come on one post to get their website out there. Hence my previous post.
fatbasturd @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:29 pm
lily lily:
That's exactly how I feel when the city folk and the famous foreigners come to my area and preach about the horrors of logging.
Spotted owl... almost as tasty as marbled murrelet.
Spotted owl... almost as tasty as marbled murrelet.
You meet me in let's say Winnipeg....and we will have a BBQ.
GunPlumber @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:41 pm
fatbasturd fatbasturd:
So in short what I will say is.....save the face for last it tastes the best.
I'll go along with that,... as long you concede that West Coast seal is far superior in texture and taste to the East Coast variety.
Seal - it's the other really dark meat.
snookums @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:45 pm
fatbasturd fatbasturd:
.
So if I understand what you are saying correctly..you don't have any leather products in your home and you dont wear leather sneakers or shoes..and you have never used a wallet...ect ect ect.[/quote]
Never heard of faux leather? They're really good now at imitating real leather
I actually do not wear real leather shoes (the only 'leather' shoes I have are faux leather, but you could never tell the difference), my wallet is made of synthetic fibre.. The more I think of it, I don't think I own anything that's made of real leather... (BTW, I get that question all the time). I'm just not a leather person, not because it's from an animal, but I don't like the feel or look of leather anyway.. Just not my cup of tea... My husband does own a leather chair, but I don't even sit in it because I don't find it's comfortable..
As lily asked - if they eat the meat, can they use the pelt/fur/whatever... Sure, if the MEAT was the primary reason why we're killing... But the first and foremost reason why they are killed is for the fur (the meat is the byproduct of it)... I'm talking about animals that are used primarily in the 'fashion' industry, not cows, pigs, etc. I mean after all the meat is gone from the cow, what happens to the rest? I guess it's a tricky question, like the chicken and the egg - what came first? The need for meat or the need to be vain?
Anyway, I had this discussion w/ a few people, and I don't expect everyone to understand my point of view, which is fine...
snookums @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:08 pm
VitaminC VitaminC:
snookums snookums:
If you have a problem with the killing for vanity thing, address the people who buy the fur, not the people who work for money for their families. You don't see seal seal hunters wearing fur coats.
I guess that's where my beef is (no pun intended!) - with the people who are actually wearing those things. If there's a demand, someone will supply it.. It's that simple.. but then again, making something illegal never stopped people from getting it
Anyway I do understand the whole concept of killing for food - I come from a farming family where half of them are hunters.. As for the rabbits, my uncle does 'hunt' them for the meat, but I wish he could use something that's a little bit more humane - I mean he uses those metal wires in a loop and the rabbit gets caught in it.. I've seen it, absolutely NOT pretty
Wullu @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:11 pm
Ok Snook, so the primary reason behind the hunt are the pelts? I take it you have never seen the adult pelt of a harp seal. The only folks I know of that make use of the pelt are the Inuit. The meat is used and not just by the sealers but by the population at large and lets not forget the oil from the fat layer that has numerous medicinal uses. The only thing truly wasted are the bones.
The hides have been of little use since the pup cull was ended 19 years ago.
fatbasturd @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:20 pm
Wait I have a great Idea ...lets stop killing all the plants to, they are a living organisms ...then we can all be naked and starve to death together.
snookums @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:36 pm
lily lily:
$1:
I actually do not wear real leather shoes (the only 'leather' shoes I have are faux leather, but you could never tell the difference),......I'm just not a leather person, not because it's from an animal, but I don't like the feel or look of leather anyway..
That doesn't make any sense. If you don't like the look and feel of real leather... and no-one can tell the difference between it and the fake stuff...
Do you like the look and feel of the fake leather?
Also... what difference does it make which is the primary and which is the secondary reason for killing the animal? If as many of the parts are being used as possible, who cares if it was killed more for the pelt than the meat?
No I don't like the feel or look of fake leather either - guess why I keep it to my feet?
The reason I said that it's because I got some ding dong before yelling at me last week that I was a hypocrite because I was wearing leather shoes - he couldn't tell the difference, that's all... I can't wear slippers to an interview, I needed a nice pair of shoes - hence the faux leather coming into my story. I don't wear them much anyway... Although NOT a leather person, I'm not going to get on someone's case just because they like leather - to each their own I guess. But if I ever had to buy something made of leather, I think I'd stick to the fake just because the 2-3 things I have now were much cheaper... But I don't buy stuff made of leather period (fake or not)
As for you other question - how often does it happen? I'm not being sarcastic, I honestly don't know. How many animals are just being skinned and the rest stays there to rot? As I said, I honestly don't know and would like to get an answer (and not just for the seals, but for any animals that are primarily used for other purposes than meat?)
ziggy @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:39 pm
He just wants all that seal meat for himself,after all,he is the walrus.
Koo Koo ka choo!
snookums @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:55 pm
I guess Wullu kinda answered my question before I even asked 
I have to say that I don't usually get into those discussion of animals issues because very rarely has my opinion been respected - I have been called every name in the book before and then some
I just find it interesting that the 'discussion' I had with some people on this particular subject (not on this board tho ) is never a rational one.. I do understand some of the points that people make - I just don't agree with parts of it... What's wrong with that??? I'm no tree hugger, veggie, bicycle lover type of person - I just don't like leather, fur and vain people
Anyway, I guess I'm just bored today and felt like punishing myself by posting in this thread 
Angell @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:13 pm
I've been called a one post wonder. That's cool, Ive been busy posting on other forums.
Anyways. This link argues both sides of the seal hunt in debate form.
http://banthehunt.50megs.com/Seal%20Hun ... sides.html
Seal pups lose their white coats after only 12 days of being born, after that the government does not consider them to be pups anymore and they are fair game for the kill. Some technicality, uh!
This stuff is on the link, check it out.
Angell @ Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:27 pm
You know, I don't oppose killing for food and survival, I am strongly oposed about the questionable method used for killing the seals or any other animal. If we are going to kill for food and survival, lets make sure is quick and humanely, failing to do that, lets ban the hunt until a better method is found.
By the way, I am Canadian!