Abortion
Tricks @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:26 am
For it.
Brenda @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:42 am
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Brenda Brenda:
I guess everybody knows my opinion on this 
For, but with restrictions.
For, but with restrictions.
Me, too.
But while you tend to make posts that focus on the importance to allow abortions, I tend to make posts that focus on how we've abused it.
I keep coming back to the 43 abortions for every 100 live births in Canada. That number is disturbing. Even pro-choice advocates might want to show some compassion and concern for the way we have implemented abortion in this country.
I thought it was 32? Anywho, it still is too much.
I think it is important to educate women on the choices they have. I don't like they idea that abortions are obviously necessary, but I want women to have to choice to have it done clean, with the most minimal risk as possible. Not allowing it would make women grab for knitting needles to abort themselves, while by allowing it, they could have it done cleanly in a clinic.
I'd rather see NO abortions at all, but unfortunatly, we don't live in Utopia.
Blue_Nose @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:17 pm
Thanos Thanos:
I actually said none of the things that you used as a basis for your counter-arguments. You operated on pure assumption, nothing else. This is one of the goofiest straw men arguments I've ever had anyone attempt to use against me in the past five years of me trolling through internet fight rooms.
You didn't say much at all in your first post, so its no wonder your argument didn't hold up.Thanos Thanos:
1) I opposed abortion, I do not oppose other contraceptives.
Why is that, if your concern is merely population growth rates? You're obviously concerned with immigration, so what does opposing abortion offer to increasing the birth rate that opposing contraceptives does not?Thanos Thanos:
2) I'd prefer that the state provide the resources and mechanisms that would encourage adoption over abortion. This is a far cry from forcing women to birth and care for an unwanted child.
I'd prefer they ensure citizens are completely free to choose either depending on their personal needs. Obviously more can be done in this regard, but it seems to me that making one favourable would be imposing on that individuals life.Thanos Thanos:
3) The destruction of a significant portion of our replacement population led to us adopting immigration policies that are proving, over the long term, to not have been such a good idea.
So those policies are to blame - not abortion.Thanos Thanos:
4) My secular pro-life bona fides are further made credible by my stating that I am opposed to the death penalty. I remain proud that my argument never came close to relying on any sort of religious crankery.
I actually prefer the moral argument over your population control argument, but that's just me.Thanos Thanos:
5) Not once did I mention imposing a tyranny or going to any reverse mutation of the already perverse Chinese policy. Your use of the word authoritarian is out of bounds. And any government that made adoption over abortion in order to save the lives of children a priority would most likely only be called a tyranny by the insane.
In imposing artificial boundaries that make one favourable over the other, your government is attempting to influence the personal decisions of its citizens in a way that favours state interests - that's wrong. Thanos Thanos:
6) Your appeal to the hysteria of the masses by using the already-discredited "out of control population growth" which, despite the propagand of the Suzuki-ites and their ilk, has never even been a problem in the history of the developed world, shows that you are relying of fantasy-land arguments rather than any sort of statistically proven fact or even anectdotal evidence.
That wasn't an argument I ever put forth, dolt.
Wally_Sconce @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:50 pm
the back alley with a coat hanger things is a bullshit story. Most illegal abortions were done by sympathetic yet competant medical practitioners.
romanP @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:05 pm
How would you know, with no statistical records of women who performed abortions on themselves?
Wally_Sconce @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:16 pm
romanP romanP:
How would you know, with no statistical records of women who performed abortions on themselves?
rather than disagree with you or declare your statement arguementive, lets for one moment consider that you are telling the truth.
that would mean that there would be no statistical records of dead women found in a back alley with a coat hanger shoved up their vagina.
Brenda @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:21 pm
You don't die instantly, that way. You slowly bleed to death, often not with the coathanger still inside of you...
Ruxpercnd @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:23 pm
Interesting to note that unlike the other industrialized nations, the United States is experiencing a decline in the abortion rate. I believe that it has decreased from about 16% to about 12%, a 25% decrease.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=4158048
Also... America is experiencing a new baby boom. More little taxpayers to pay for my retirement! We got 2.1 births per woman compared to Canada's 1.5 - 1.6. America just gets more imposing...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/01/15/ba ... newssearch
The original baby boom was 4.7 million births per year. Now we got 4.3 million per year.
Are Americans sexy or what?
xerxes @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:32 pm
What's also interesting about those new stats is that over half of the abortions performed in the US are done by women over 25.
romanP @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:59 pm
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
romanP romanP:
How would you know, with no statistical records of women who performed abortions on themselves?
rather than disagree with you or declare your statement arguementive, lets for one moment consider that you are telling the truth.
that would mean that there would be no statistical records of dead women found in a back alley with a coat hanger shoved up their vagina.
You haven't presented any and I don't have any. Therefore, between us, we have zero statistics on this matter . I'm going to bet it'll be difficult to find any, but I don't really care to look because I still think it's better to have a system that shows compassion for people making tough decisions rather than one that does nothing, ignores the entire issue and calls those people murderers for taking matters into their own hands since no other option was one they were willing to consider.
romanP @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:06 pm
Ruxpercnd Ruxpercnd:
The original baby boom was 4.7 million births per year. Now we got 4.3 million per year.
I don't consider this a good thing. We're already approaching a critical mass for population, the last thing we need is another baby boom. If you think everyone in China and India driving cars is a bad idea, consider what a third country with a billion people driving cars will do to the planet. Especially when that country already has more cars than people.
$1:
Are Americans sexy or what?
I think "oblivious" would be a better term.
Tricks @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:08 pm
romanP romanP:
Ruxpercnd Ruxpercnd:
The original baby boom was 4.7 million births per year. Now we got 4.3 million per year.
I don't consider this a good thing. We're already approaching a critical mass for population, the last thing we need is another baby boom. If you think everyone in China and India driving cars is a bad idea, consider what a third country with a billion people driving cars will do to the planet. Especially when that country already has more cars than people.
Ruxpercnd @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:59 pm
Tricks Tricks:
romanP romanP:
Ruxpercnd Ruxpercnd:
The original baby boom was 4.7 million births per year. Now we got 4.3 million per year.
I don't consider this a good thing. We're already approaching a critical mass for population, the last thing we need is another baby boom. If you think everyone in China and India driving cars is a bad idea, consider what a third country with a billion people driving cars will do to the planet. Especially when that country already has more cars than people.
I just love natural selection.... people who don't want children get selected out... sexy folks just get sexier... And after 30,000 years of modern human evolution (just enough time to create different skin colors), we humans are pretty much sex maniacs.... except for a certain few Canadians.
Some folks are pessimistic about the human condition... but you know what?... we have barely begun do decide what we really are and how we should live. There is an exciting future ahead... even for the Chinese.
romanP @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:03 pm
Tricks Tricks:
romanP romanP:
Ruxpercnd Ruxpercnd:
The original baby boom was 4.7 million births per year. Now we got 4.3 million per year.
I don't consider this a good thing. We're already approaching a critical mass for population, the last thing we need is another baby boom. If you think everyone in China and India driving cars is a bad idea, consider what a third country with a billion people driving cars will do to the planet. Especially when that country already has more cars than people.
Where did I say anything about forcing people to stop having children?
I'm talking about people using their head before they decide popping out another baby is the best idea. A lot of people have children for very selfish reasons. In America these days, there are probably a lot of people having babies because they're ignorant about how babies happen, due to abstinence-only "education."
Idiot.
Tricks @ Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:09 pm
romanP romanP:
Tricks Tricks:
romanP romanP:
Ruxpercnd Ruxpercnd:
The original baby boom was 4.7 million births per year. Now we got 4.3 million per year.
I don't consider this a good thing. We're already approaching a critical mass for population, the last thing we need is another baby boom. If you think everyone in China and India driving cars is a bad idea, consider what a third country with a billion people driving cars will do to the planet. Especially when that country already has more cars than people.
Where did I say anything about forcing people to stop having children?
I'm talking about people using their head before they decide popping out another baby is the best idea. A lot of people have children for very selfish reasons. In America these days, there are probably a lot of people having babies because they're ignorant about how babies happen, due to abstinence-only "education."
Idiot.
Ass.