How should Canada settle native land claims ?
saga @ Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:07 pm
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
saga saga:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
Next time just link the aped site http://www.schoolnet.ca/aboriginal/issues/claims-e.html
And why would anyone here enter into a dialogue with you about history when you’ve demonstrated quite well that you simply don’t know squat about the discipline? You’ve quoted amateur sites, pushed ahistorical agendas and been objectively wrong on numerous occasions and that doesn’t even cover your junky analysis.
Sorry, this is a “wait and see” thing
And why would anyone here enter into a dialogue with you about history when you’ve demonstrated quite well that you simply don’t know squat about the discipline? You’ve quoted amateur sites, pushed ahistorical agendas and been objectively wrong on numerous occasions and that doesn’t even cover your junky analysis.
Sorry, this is a “wait and see” thing
I agree, the entire thread is not nuetral question, but phrased in the way you wrote it indicates that if one supports the idea that Indians should be treated as any other Canadian, almost by defintion you ascribe to them the various accusations and intimations that seem to be your creed.
The question doesnt seem to able to be answered objectivley since the originator of the question refuses to accept other possiblities
What other possibilities would be consistent with our laws?
Which is precisely my point, you seem to interpret the situation where any other conclusion is impossible.
Antother thing, you have said many times that the so-called 'six-nations' tht they are not Canadians. And without official recognition of the UN it seems that if they're not Canadian and no recognition is coming from the UN then they are stateless people. One can state that a certain people are a nation, you can even print a passport and other such trvialities. but without official sanction from the UN the claim of statehood is empty.
To my mind in this situation why would the Canadian government and the tax-payer do anything. I notice that you stated that Conrad Black should have to meet the point system of immigration for returning to Canada.
$1:
How does Conrad shape up? Can he make the 67 point cutoff?
The situation to my point of view that if indians renounce thier citizenship (ie were not Canadians) and say they are different nation in of themselves - but have no accrediatation. To my mind the indians in this country who do so have two option, they can apply for citizenship or immigrate.
They would have to aplly for citizenship under the same rules as anyone. and if they chose to the would have to live under the same law as 'Canadians' with no special treatment. Or if they so choose immigrate to another country that they feel better suits thier needs. In either case their claims are - and have been baseless.
There may well be many who will remain Canadians. I doubt they'd be asked to apply. Others may wish to reject Canadian citizenship. The UN supports the right to self-determination for Indigenous people, but I don't know whether that amounts to recognition by the UN or not. It's not all clear yet, of course ... but there are self-governing bands in BC. already I think.
You say that, in your opinion, 'their claims are and have been baseless. This, of course is blatantly wrong. Where do you get off making a stupid statement like that? You can't really believe that!
Their claims are valid. Otherwise the government wouldn't address them at all. In fact, our government never did address them until told it had to by the UN. You see, if Canada doesn't settle valid claims, they can take it to the international courts where they will win and Canada will be internationally humiliated.
Our governments have been wasting more money pretending to negotiate for 30 years than it would have taken to settle all the land claims.
saga @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:21 am
Mustang1 Mustang1:
saga saga:
Me included, though I've dug around for information and I'm convinced it is financially feasible for us to settle all land claims and have a new arrangement with native people.
Keep digging – so far, this is a fanciful pipedream based largely on a romantic (and extremely flawed examination of the past) notion of the past and it while it may appear “fair” it’s not as it completely ignores contemporary cultural norms and fails to demonstrate why Natives deserve any land not covered by historical ownership.
Tell you what – if they want land, then they should pay back (with interest) the Federal Government for every program, initiative, governmental handout and monetary advantage (that includes tax exemptions) as why should they receive special treatment AND questionable land claims? You can’t have it both ways – wards of the state, getting fat off the dole or self-determined sovereign peoples who want to be treated as such and recognized as such. Which is it?
The federal government has had a land claims system in place since 1979 to deal with land covered by 'historical ownership'. Those are the lands they are claiming. So you don't have a problem with that? All the land claims are about historical ownership. There are about a thousand already on the waiting list. Each one takes 10-30 years to resolve.
I find a real misunderstanding among people about the funds 'received' . As I have said elsewhere, if aboriginal communities were to receive the same government funding as our municipalities, WE WOULD HAVE TO IMMEDIATELY DOUBLE THEIR BUDGETS! The underfunding to Band Councils compared to Municipalities alone would account for all of the 'perks' you mentioned, with interest, and more, without cutting into the land claims and compensation at all.
"Wards of the state (?) getting fat off the dole" ... that's a pretty broad-brush stereotype. Where do you get off painting them all that way? Most of the native people I know keep joking ... 'So where's that monthly cheque I'm supposed to be getting?' Most people (and you) are ignorant of the huge disparity in community funding. Perhaps if their communities were funded at the same level as ours, there would be more options - e.g. more jobs and programs in the community - for more people. The government wants you to resent them ... helps them keep the Indians in 'their place' so they won't take the land back ... cos it's ALL about the land ...
Clearly, it is the latter ... "self-determined sovereign people who want to be treated as such and recognized as such". Exactly, and well said.
The government's process includes several options for self-governance. Not all arrangements would be the same.
HyperionTheEvil @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:06 am
saga saga:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
saga saga:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
Next time just link the aped site http://www.schoolnet.ca/aboriginal/issues/claims-e.html
And why would anyone here enter into a dialogue with you about history when you’ve demonstrated quite well that you simply don’t know squat about the discipline? You’ve quoted amateur sites, pushed ahistorical agendas and been objectively wrong on numerous occasions and that doesn’t even cover your junky analysis.
Sorry, this is a “wait and see” thing
And why would anyone here enter into a dialogue with you about history when you’ve demonstrated quite well that you simply don’t know squat about the discipline? You’ve quoted amateur sites, pushed ahistorical agendas and been objectively wrong on numerous occasions and that doesn’t even cover your junky analysis.
Sorry, this is a “wait and see” thing
I agree, the entire thread is not nuetral question, but phrased in the way you wrote it indicates that if one supports the idea that Indians should be treated as any other Canadian, almost by defintion you ascribe to them the various accusations and intimations that seem to be your creed.
The question doesnt seem to able to be answered objectivley since the originator of the question refuses to accept other possiblities
What other possibilities would be consistent with our laws?
Which is precisely my point, you seem to interpret the situation where any other conclusion is impossible.
Antother thing, you have said many times that the so-called 'six-nations' tht they are not Canadians. And without official recognition of the UN it seems that if they're not Canadian and no recognition is coming from the UN then they are stateless people. One can state that a certain people are a nation, you can even print a passport and other such trvialities. but without official sanction from the UN the claim of statehood is empty.
To my mind in this situation why would the Canadian government and the tax-payer do anything. I notice that you stated that Conrad Black should have to meet the point system of immigration for returning to Canada.
$1:
How does Conrad shape up? Can he make the 67 point cutoff?
The situation to my point of view that if indians renounce thier citizenship (ie were not Canadians) and say they are different nation in of themselves - but have no accrediatation. To my mind the indians in this country who do so have two option, they can apply for citizenship or immigrate.
They would have to aplly for citizenship under the same rules as anyone. and if they chose to the would have to live under the same law as 'Canadians' with no special treatment. Or if they so choose immigrate to another country that they feel better suits thier needs. In either case their claims are - and have been baseless.
There may well be many who will remain Canadians. I doubt they'd be asked to apply. Others may wish to reject Canadian citizenship. The UN supports the right to self-determination for Indigenous people, but I don't know whether that amounts to recognition by the UN or not. It's not all clear yet, of course ... but there are self-governing bands in BC. already I think.
You say that, in your opinion, 'their claims are and have been baseless. This, of course is blatantly wrong. Where do you get off making a stupid statement like that? You can't really believe that!
Their claims are valid. Otherwise the government wouldn't address them at all. In fact, our government never did address them until told it had to by the UN. You see, if Canada doesn't settle valid claims, they can take it to the international courts where they will win and Canada will be internationally humiliated.
Our governments have been wasting more money pretending to negotiate for 30 years than it would have taken to settle all the land claims.
I cant help it if your arguments make no sense.
First you're not canadians and that you're a seperate 'nation', and then you appeal to internal Canadian law to settle your 'claims' as opposed to dealing with a 'seperate' nation tha has never been recognized by the acreditation committe in the UN. . Seems to me that your simply trying to flip-flop from either being a Canadian to extract more money from the Tax-payer.
If you're not candians as you say then Canada has no repsonsbility to a group of pople that have in thier own words called referred themselves as not "canadians", you're also not a nation recognized by the UN. Your agruments are self-defeating. As i said before your argument bears out that if you're not Canadians, and you're not a nation. Then by your own definition you're stateless in which case you can apply for citizenship, or immigrate to another country that would like to have you.
If you are however Canadians you must abide by Canadian law, and specifically refer yourself in public as Canadians. Again the self described fantasy of 'nationhood' fails at first blush. As Canadians you have the right to ask for redress of grievance, but since you're Candians you must be treated equally as other Canadians - ie - no special treatment. And thereby your 'claims' as i have said were and are basless, based upon your own faulty arguments.
HyperionTheEvil @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:21 am
saga saga:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
saga saga:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
Next time just link the aped site http://www.schoolnet.ca/aboriginal/issues/claims-e.html
And why would anyone here enter into a dialogue with you about history when you’ve demonstrated quite well that you simply don’t know squat about the discipline? You’ve quoted amateur sites, pushed ahistorical agendas and been objectively wrong on numerous occasions and that doesn’t even cover your junky analysis.
Sorry, this is a “wait and see” thing
And why would anyone here enter into a dialogue with you about history when you’ve demonstrated quite well that you simply don’t know squat about the discipline? You’ve quoted amateur sites, pushed ahistorical agendas and been objectively wrong on numerous occasions and that doesn’t even cover your junky analysis.
Sorry, this is a “wait and see” thing
I agree, the entire thread is not nuetral question, but phrased in the way you wrote it indicates that if one supports the idea that Indians should be treated as any other Canadian, almost by defintion you ascribe to them the various accusations and intimations that seem to be your creed.
The question doesnt seem to able to be answered objectivley since the originator of the question refuses to accept other possiblities
What other possibilities would be consistent with our laws?
Which is precisely my point, you seem to interpret the situation where any other conclusion is impossible.
Antother thing, you have said many times that the so-called 'six-nations' tht they are not Canadians. And without official recognition of the UN it seems that if they're not Canadian and no recognition is coming from the UN then they are stateless people. One can state that a certain people are a nation, you can even print a passport and other such trvialities. but without official sanction from the UN the claim of statehood is empty.
To my mind in this situation why would the Canadian government and the tax-payer do anything. I notice that you stated that Conrad Black should have to meet the point system of immigration for returning to Canada.
$1:
How does Conrad shape up? Can he make the 67 point cutoff?
The situation to my point of view that if indians renounce thier citizenship (ie were not Canadians) and say they are different nation in of themselves - but have no accrediatation. To my mind the indians in this country who do so have two option, they can apply for citizenship or immigrate.
They would have to aplly for citizenship under the same rules as anyone. and if they chose to the would have to live under the same law as 'Canadians' with no special treatment. Or if they so choose immigrate to another country that they feel better suits thier needs. In either case their claims are - and have been baseless.
There may well be many who will remain Canadians. I doubt they'd be asked to apply. Others may wish to reject Canadian citizenship. The UN supports the right to self-determination for Indigenous people, but I don't know whether that amounts to recognition by the UN or not. It's not all clear yet, of course ... but there are self-governing bands in BC. already I think.
You say that, in your opinion, 'their claims are and have been baseless. This, of course is blatantly wrong. Where do you get off making a stupid statement like that? You can't really believe that!
Their claims are valid. Otherwise the government wouldn't address them at all. In fact, our government never did address them until told it had to by the UN. You see, if Canada doesn't settle valid claims, they can take it to the international courts where they will win and Canada will be internationally humiliated.
Our governments have been wasting more money pretending to negotiate for 30 years than it would have taken to settle all the land claims.
Another falacy of yours that needs to be looked at is that the world court is an optional body. By a similar token the Canadian government could take the indians who have tried to kill police officers and assualt retied people and bring them to the world court on charges of human rights abuses. The could also take members of of mohawk 'nation' (as they call themelves) and charge them with international crimes of smuggling, organized crime and even investigate them for terrorist activities.
As for adressing them the inidans in this country have become used the typical liberal tactic of simply rolling over when a group of indians burn some tires. Precisley what happned in Ontario. But for the moment lets treat your fantasy-thoery that your a seperate nation as a possible truth. Canada does not engage in negotiations with nations that sponsor terrorism. In fact if we then broaden your fevered imganioations of 'nationhood' to the point where indians in this country inhabit ( in thier own mind anyways ) a seperate nation. then the Canadian government is duty bound to not only protect it citizens, but also its national security. Hence by your own definition since the indians at Caledonia were and are not 'official' combatatants they can be treated as terrorists and military action is called for agasint a people that are intent on detroying Canada.
Setting up a roadblock and assulting old people is one thing. Trying to stop a Leopard II Main Battle Tank with a pile of smoking tires is another
In the end you say it would have been better to negotiate. and the issue is that every neogtiation costs taxpayers moeny to a indians who have no legitimate claim. You want to go down the road of extremism like indians did at caledonia. You reap the consequences
Mustang1 @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:11 pm
saga saga:
"Wards of the state (?) getting fat off the dole" ... that's a pretty broad-brush stereotype. Where do you get off painting them all that way?
Actually, it’s not a stereotype in this context as I was demonstrating the inherent contradictions within your argument – sorry, but you missed the point. Besides, weren’t Natives once considered Wards of the State? Weren’t they once on the dole? Please keep your ignorance to yourself and don’t ascribe positions to me that aren’t accurate
$1:
“Most people (and you) are ignorant of the huge disparity in community funding”
Actually, I couldn’t care less about their funding – if they’re sovereign people, as you incorrectly assert, then why are they getting any money?
$1:
“if their communities were funded at the same level as ours, there would be more options - e.g. more jobs and programs in the community - for more people.”
That’s pure speculation. They shouldn’t receive ANYTHING if they’re a sovereign nation! You’re painting yourself into a corner, Granny.
$1:
“The government wants you to resent them”
Typical horsehit from you Granny. Prove it. Let’s see you demonstrate that the federal government is currently promoting a campaign of resentment towards Natives. You’ll dodge and when you do, I’ll label you a coward.
$1:
“Clearly, it is the latter ... "self-determined sovereign people who want to be treated as such and recognized as such". Exactly, and well said.”
You didn’t get the point as it was clearly beyond your intellect. Please read up on the issue and then send someone else a little brighter next time so I can at least be challenged. Damn.
Sorry, but so far, all you’ve demonstrated here is that you possess very little knowledge regarding the issue other than your sorry aped sites that you incessantly parrot. It’s not my job to educate you. Read a book.
saga @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:42 pm
Well, I guess I need to clarify a few things for mustard and hyperweevil:
I am Canadian.
irish-CANADIAN grandmother.
The Haudenosaunee Confederacy people, however, arrived in Canada with a treaty saying that they were a sovereign nation. That treaty is still in effect, and is protected by the Constitution of Canada. However, Canada has violated its own constitution and laws by treating them sort of like Canadians ... second class Canadians, because they are not funded equally with other Canadian communities. (ALL First Nations communities are government-funded at HALF the rate of our municipalities, and that INCLUDES their education budget, which is separate funding for us.)
They never did want to be Canadians, and certainly no longer wish to be second class citizens. When Canada returns the land that was taken illegally, and compensates them according to existing agreements for land that cannot be returned (e.g., Caledonia) they will be economically independent from Canada.
That is their purpose. That is what the reclamation of the Haldimand Tract is about.
Mustard ... I don't get your perverted point about "fat...dole" and if you think it's worth trying to explain it again ... go ahead ... or not ... but don't embarass yourself on my behalf!
Hyperidiot ...
Another falacy of yours that needs to be looked at is that the world court is an optional body. By a similar token the Canadian government could take the indians who have tried to kill police officers and assualt retied people and bring them to the world court on charges of human rights abuses.
He who "tried to kill A police officer" (NOT MORE THAN ONE ... see ... that's how rumours grow into lies about "terrorism") actually never touched said officer, just drove a vehicle near him. Frightened him, I am sure (but what were they doing there in the first place HMMMMM??? Do you know? Do you really know anything about the real events AT ALL??)
Charge has already been reduced, so get over that, eh?
And ... for the 500th time on here ... the DRUNKEN AND FILTHYRACISTMOUTHED old couple who drove through the barricade at DCE without an invitation ..came closer to killing someone. They swerved to try to hit two people, tried to grab Audra's arm from a moving vehicle. I am not excusing what happened later, and charges have been laid, etc. However, few people bother to find out the real facts. A Six Nations man followed them to the police line BECAUSE HE WANTED THEM TO GET THE DRUNK DRIVER OFF THE ROAD. OPP just waved them by, into the huge mass of people in the parking lot. Brilliant.
The could also take members of of mohawk 'nation' (as they call themelves) and charge them with international crimes of smuggling, organized crime and even investigate them for terrorist activities.
You can investigate organized crime in any community you want ... there's some individuals involved in that in my neighbourhood too, I expect. That doesn't make ME a criminal. Guilt by association is crap. It's only because they are easy to identify by skin colour that the crime of one gets everyone of them labelled. Isn't that RACIAL PROFILING??
TANK ... only in your dreams jerkoff! ... and only over my dead body and those of a lot of other CANADIAN SUPPORTERS OF SIX NATIONS.
If you really knew the facts about what you are talking about... maybe you'd be worth listening to, but you don't.
NEXT!
saga @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:53 pm
To get back to the topic of land claims ... which this thread is about ...
The Haudenosaunee Confederacy of Six Nations currently occupies a piece of land which is part of the Plank Road (old hwy 6) claim. This claim is for a mile wide strip through the Haldimand tract , which is itself 12 miles long (6 miles on either side of the Grand River.
Definition...
Surrender: The federal government routinely got Indigenous people to 'surrender' their land to the government IN TRUST to the band. The government was supposed to put any money made from the land into the band account. They seldom did. They sold the land instead and pocketed the money in most cases.
The land was 'surrendered' to the government in 1841. Six Nations surrendered it for LEASE so the govt. could build the road. The government IMMEDIATELY turned around and sold the lots along the road. Six Nations has protested this illegal surrender ever since 1841, and been ignored. In 1987, they submitted a claim to the federal government. It was rejected without a hearing. In 1992, the property was sold to the developers. They were informed by Six Nations that the land was in dispute. In 1995, Six Nations submitted a lawsuit and pursued court action for several years. The government, knowing that things would not go its way, talked them into negotiating the claim instead. This dance lasted several years ... then the developers started developing on the property... pretty clear evidence that the government was not negotiating in good faith ... so they reclaimed it themselves.
Negotiation are going well for Six Nations, for the Plank Road Tract and the entire Haldimand Tract. They have their documents in order, and the government is now finally FORCED to negotiate with them (by public opinion).
And guess what?
A month ago, the government negotiators and other government reps met with all of the local mayors and showed them this map that they had all along ... which shows the Plank Road Tract UNCEDED (not surrendered) as of 1900 (59 years after the supposed 'surrender'). They showed them this map to soften them up for what they now know is inevitable: Six Nations still has title to the Plank Road Tract, including the 'Douglas Creek Estates' property now called Kanonhstaton.
Government map of Haldimand Tract, 1900
The government knew it all along. They have spent more of our money trying to avoid settling than it would have cost to settle the claim ... and they knew that all along ... and now they have to settle anyway.
Another thing: In 1987 and 1995, it was the elected Band Council making the claim, and they would have accepted compen$ation instead of the land. Unfortunately, the government delayed and spent millions playing games ... and now the Confederacy is in charge and they want the land back.
I don't know about you folks, but I am tired of our government wasting our money on pretend 'negotiations'. I want them to settle all the claims now. It's been 30 years since they set up the land claims process, and it is time they actually did it.
I have contacted INAC for a financial accounting of money spent on 'negotiations' in comparison to money spent actually settling claims. I am sure it will be revealing ... if they will reveal it.
And by the time I die, I hope this is an honourable country.
Donny_Brasco @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:57 pm
WHAT LAND CLAIMS?
saga @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:02 pm
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
WHAT LAND CLAIMS?
ALL OF THEM !!! RIGHT NOW !!!
Nice to meet you, Donny. I've been told that we two are are the 'annoying ones' when it comes to land claims,etc. In fact ... I have been awarded the "most annoying" tribute. I haven't received it yet, but I am hoping it is something really annoying!
cheers!
Donny_Brasco @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:14 pm
These folks are alot better then they used to be.
Mainly because they are sick of my shit, not because they actually know any better.
Nice to meet you too.
I stay out of the arguements for now, not because I know any better but because I'm sick of their shit too.
Regina @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:56 pm
saga saga:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
WHAT LAND CLAIMS?
ALL OF THEM !!! RIGHT NOW !!!
Nice to meet you, Donny. I've been told that we two are are the 'annoying ones' when it comes to land claims,etc. In fact ... I have been awarded the "most annoying" tribute. I haven't received it yet, but I am hoping it is something really annoying!
cheers!
saga @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:18 pm
Regina Regina:
saga saga:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
WHAT LAND CLAIMS?
ALL OF THEM !!! RIGHT NOW !!!
Nice to meet you, Donny. I've been told that we two are are the 'annoying ones' when it comes to land claims,etc. In fact ... I have been awarded the "most annoying" tribute. I haven't received it yet, but I am hoping it is something really annoying!
cheers!
Well ... it's lovely (gulp) ... but ... how the fuck am I going to put THAT on my mantle!
Not that I'm not grateful and all ... I mean thanks and all that ...
and no parade either ... sigh ...
I was SO looking forward to wearing my new teeth that day!
Mustang1 @ Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:37 am
saga saga:
Mustard ...
“mustard”?!?!? That’s the best you’ve got, Driving Miss Dumb? Please. This is like sparring with a monkey and all you’ve done so far is fling your poop. I almost pity you. Tell you what Granny – you’re getting schooled here and while your only defence is to ape Mad Magazine with quaint little names, your still getting beat like a rented mule, so perhaps you need a little Matlock time and save the big issues to the kids that actually understand their particulars. There’s a good Granny.
Oh…and don’t think I missed your little chickenshit dodge when I challenged you to substantiate your moronic notion that “The government wants you to resent them”.
Keep running coward.
$1:
“I don't get your perverted point about "fat...dole" and if you think it's worth trying to explain it again”
You don’t get much, do you? Sorry, it’s not my job to dumb everything down for you. Next
$1:
“but don't embarass yourself on my behalf”
So says the fucktard that can’t spell “embarrass” – damn, this is far too easy. It’s way past your bedtime, my geriatric chump, and you’re getting more senile. Push the “nurse” button. Now.
HyperionTheEvil @ Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:24 am
saga saga:
Well, I guess I need to clarify a few things for mustard and hyperweevil:
I am Canadian.
irish-CANADIAN grandmother.
The Haudenosaunee Confederacy people, however, arrived in Canada with a treaty saying that they were a sovereign nation. That treaty is still in effect, and is protected by the Constitution of Canada. However, Canada has violated its own constitution and laws by treating them sort of like Canadians ... second class Canadians, because they are not funded equally with other Canadian communities. (ALL First Nations communities are government-funded at HALF the rate of our municipalities, and that INCLUDES their education budget, which is separate funding for us.)
They never did want to be Canadians, and certainly no longer wish to be second class citizens. When Canada returns the land that was taken illegally, and compensates them according to existing agreements for land that cannot be returned (e.g., Caledonia) they will be economically independent from Canada.
That is their purpose. That is what the reclamation of the Haldimand Tract is about.
Mustard ... I don't get your perverted point about "fat...dole" and if you think it's worth trying to explain it again ... go ahead ... or not ... but don't embarass yourself on my behalf!
Hyperidiot ...
Another falacy of yours that needs to be looked at is that the world court is an optional body. By a similar token the Canadian government could take the indians who have tried to kill police officers and assualt retied people and bring them to the world court on charges of human rights abuses.
He who "tried to kill A police officer" (NOT MORE THAN ONE ... see ... that's how rumours grow into lies about "terrorism") actually never touched said officer, just drove a vehicle near him. Frightened him, I am sure (but what were they doing there in the first place HMMMMM??? Do you know? Do you really know anything about the real events AT ALL??)
Charge has already been reduced, so get over that, eh?
And ... for the 500th time on here ... the DRUNKEN AND FILTHYRACISTMOUTHED old couple who drove through the barricade at DCE without an invitation ..came closer to killing someone. They swerved to try to hit two people, tried to grab Audra's arm from a moving vehicle. I am not excusing what happened later, and charges have been laid, etc. However, few people bother to find out the real facts. A Six Nations man followed them to the police line BECAUSE HE WANTED THEM TO GET THE DRUNK DRIVER OFF THE ROAD. OPP just waved them by, into the huge mass of people in the parking lot. Brilliant.
The could also take members of of mohawk 'nation' (as they call themelves) and charge them with international crimes of smuggling, organized crime and even investigate them for terrorist activities.
You can investigate organized crime in any community you want ... there's some individuals involved in that in my neighbourhood too, I expect. That doesn't make ME a criminal. Guilt by association is crap. It's only because they are easy to identify by skin colour that the crime of one gets everyone of them labelled. Isn't that RACIAL PROFILING??
TANK ... only in your dreams jerkoff! ... and only over my dead body and those of a lot of other CANADIAN SUPPORTERS OF SIX NATIONS.
If you really knew the facts about what you are talking about... maybe you'd be worth listening to, but you don't.
NEXT!
I am Canadian.
irish-CANADIAN grandmother.
The Haudenosaunee Confederacy people, however, arrived in Canada with a treaty saying that they were a sovereign nation. That treaty is still in effect, and is protected by the Constitution of Canada. However, Canada has violated its own constitution and laws by treating them sort of like Canadians ... second class Canadians, because they are not funded equally with other Canadian communities. (ALL First Nations communities are government-funded at HALF the rate of our municipalities, and that INCLUDES their education budget, which is separate funding for us.)
They never did want to be Canadians, and certainly no longer wish to be second class citizens. When Canada returns the land that was taken illegally, and compensates them according to existing agreements for land that cannot be returned (e.g., Caledonia) they will be economically independent from Canada.
That is their purpose. That is what the reclamation of the Haldimand Tract is about.
Mustard ... I don't get your perverted point about "fat...dole" and if you think it's worth trying to explain it again ... go ahead ... or not ... but don't embarass yourself on my behalf!
Hyperidiot ...
Another falacy of yours that needs to be looked at is that the world court is an optional body. By a similar token the Canadian government could take the indians who have tried to kill police officers and assualt retied people and bring them to the world court on charges of human rights abuses.
He who "tried to kill A police officer" (NOT MORE THAN ONE ... see ... that's how rumours grow into lies about "terrorism") actually never touched said officer, just drove a vehicle near him. Frightened him, I am sure (but what were they doing there in the first place HMMMMM??? Do you know? Do you really know anything about the real events AT ALL??)
Charge has already been reduced, so get over that, eh?
And ... for the 500th time on here ... the DRUNKEN AND FILTHYRACISTMOUTHED old couple who drove through the barricade at DCE without an invitation ..came closer to killing someone. They swerved to try to hit two people, tried to grab Audra's arm from a moving vehicle. I am not excusing what happened later, and charges have been laid, etc. However, few people bother to find out the real facts. A Six Nations man followed them to the police line BECAUSE HE WANTED THEM TO GET THE DRUNK DRIVER OFF THE ROAD. OPP just waved them by, into the huge mass of people in the parking lot. Brilliant.
The could also take members of of mohawk 'nation' (as they call themelves) and charge them with international crimes of smuggling, organized crime and even investigate them for terrorist activities.
You can investigate organized crime in any community you want ... there's some individuals involved in that in my neighbourhood too, I expect. That doesn't make ME a criminal. Guilt by association is crap. It's only because they are easy to identify by skin colour that the crime of one gets everyone of them labelled. Isn't that RACIAL PROFILING??
TANK ... only in your dreams jerkoff! ... and only over my dead body and those of a lot of other CANADIAN SUPPORTERS OF SIX NATIONS.
If you really knew the facts about what you are talking about... maybe you'd be worth listening to, but you don't.
NEXT!
Don't get mad at me if you conflicting arguments end up making no sense. I was merely following your own extremist views to what seems in your own mind a logical conslusion
You want o be a canadian as long as being candian suits your purpose. Once you think your purposes you believe or not being met, then you claim not to be a canadian. So at what point along your logical thinking do indians start and stop being canadian? At what point to indians who make thier 'claims' based on canadian law start living by it peacefully. and as for your claims that the couple was 'racist, you have nothing more than your own indian generated propagana and the indian who triled to kill the cop, did try to kill the cop, in canadian law thats called 'attempted murder' dont know what they call it under 'indian' law but i iamgine they call it negotiations
Frankly, as ive said before the tax-payer owes nothing to indians whether they claim to be canadian or not. The conservative government should disband the DNIA, send the moeny to help all canadians by either investing in Education, Health Care or defence. And eventually they will.
It's time for indians to grow up and figure out whether they're canadians or not, if so they can live by the same rules other canadians live under law (and that includes it being illegal to try to kill cops). If not they can emmigrate to some other country that may want a group of people who use violence and terorism when they dont get what they want.
good luck with that
BartSimpson @ Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:15 am
Regina Regina:
saga saga:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
WHAT LAND CLAIMS?
ALL OF THEM !!! RIGHT NOW !!!
Nice to meet you, Donny. I've been told that we two are are the 'annoying ones' when it comes to land claims,etc. In fact ... I have been awarded the "most annoying" tribute. I haven't received it yet, but I am hoping it is something really annoying!
cheers!
We could arrange a blanket party.