How should Canada settle native land claims ?
saga @ Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:14 pm
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
saga saga:
Today I listened to a lawyer speak. She said that unless Canada honours the treaties with Indigenous people, there is no basis in law for us to be here. We are here in Canada by virtue of having the treaties by which the Indigenous peoples allowed us to share the land, and the treaties also state the terms of our use.
Without the treaties, we are not a legal country and not even welcome visitors. She also said the courts have in the past colluded with government and criminalized Indigenous people attempting to uphold the treaties, but this is changing as more and more courts recognize aboriginal rights as a reality.
And again I must say ... Canada's oppression of Indigenous people was all about the land ... about stealing the land.
Saga, when will you and many 1st Nations people stop being victims and bemoaning past treatment?
(...and blah blah blah )
For the umpteenth time ... I am not 'native'
.............................. I AM CANADIAN !! .................................
I AM NOT MOANING I am SHOUTING ... telling the truth about Canada.
Canada is a fraud ... not even a country ... we have no legal land mass ... (did you know that?) We exist only by the grace of the CROWN.
We oppressed Indigenous people, we tried to exterminate them, and WE STOLE THEIR LAND.
But it is still not legal, and never will be unless Canadians takes action.
Time for Canada to step up to the plate, HONOUR THE INDIGENOUS TREATIES by which they invited us to share their land ... and try to work out some arrangement that will allow us ... FINALLY ... to be a legal and honourable country.
I WOULD LIKE TO BE A CITIZEN OF A LEGAL AND HONOURABLE COUNTRY ... CANADA ... someday ... soon.
And ... I know many of you won't believe this because you are paid to uphold the status quo and that's your job ... and where would we be without you ... really ... I mean that sincerely ... BUT
There is going to be a 'sea change' soon ... and it will be a peaceful one I hope ... and you'll be able to say you saw it coming ... because grannysaga told you so!
Wait for it!
It starts this thursday ... October 5
... and ... when will tories stop MOANING about their wallets?
If there is one truth in this world, it is that the moaning about "somebody's taking my money" increases in proportion to how much money people have. There is truth in "the rich bitch" ... but bitch is a verb.
SireJoe @ Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:32 pm
saga saga:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
saga saga:
Today I listened to a lawyer speak. She said that unless Canada honours the treaties with Indigenous people, there is no basis in law for us to be here. We are here in Canada by virtue of having the treaties by which the Indigenous peoples allowed us to share the land, and the treaties also state the terms of our use.
Without the treaties, we are not a legal country and not even welcome visitors. She also said the courts have in the past colluded with government and criminalized Indigenous people attempting to uphold the treaties, but this is changing as more and more courts recognize aboriginal rights as a reality.
And again I must say ... Canada's oppression of Indigenous people was all about the land ... about stealing the land.
Saga, when will you and many 1st Nations people stop being victims and bemoaning past treatment?
(...and blah blah blah )
For the umpteenth time ... I am not 'native'
.............................. I AM CANADIAN !! .................................
I AM NOT MOANING I am SHOUTING ... telling the truth about Canada.
Canada is a fraud ... not even a country ... we have no legal land mass ... (did you know that?) We exist only by the grace of the CROWN.
We oppressed Indigenous people, we tried to exterminate them, and WE STOLE THEIR LAND.
But it is still not legal, and never will be unless Canadians takes action.
Time for Canada to step up to the plate, HONOUR THE INDIGENOUS TREATIES by which they invited us to share their land ... and try to work out some arrangement that will allow us ... FINALLY ... to be a legal and honourable country.
I WOULD LIKE TO BE A CITIZEN OF A LEGAL AND HONOURABLE COUNTRY ... CANADA ... someday ... soon.
And ... I know many of you won't believe this because you are paid to uphold the status quo and that's your job ... and where would we be without you ... really ... I mean that sincerely ... BUT
There is going to be a 'sea change' soon ... and it will be a peaceful one I hope ... and you'll be able to say you saw it coming ... because grannysaga told you so!
Wait for it!
It starts this thursday ... October 5
... and ... when will tories stop MOANING about their wallets?
If there is one truth in this world, it is that the moaning about "somebody's taking my money" increases in proportion to how much money people have. There is truth in "the rich bitch" ... but bitch is a verb.
Well obviously reading isnt your best subject, BUT he did NOT say YOU were native. He said that YOU and THE 1ST NATIONS. Which does NOT imply YOU being native. Got it? Good granny.
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Saga, when will you and many 1st Nations people stop being victims and bemoaning past treatment?
You do realize that this statement is akin to telling a murder victim's family to "get over it" right?
What you clearly are uneducated on is that the "treatment" is far from past, and is still occurring today. Its had a snowball effect, and is far from over & done with. What happens in the past, affects the future. What happened in the past, is still affecting us today. What's happening today, is going to be still affecting us years down the road... get it ? (Probably not, I've learned not to expect too much from the uneducated.)
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
First Nations deserve respect, but really the reservoir is drying up. You cannot subsist on welfare, deny property rights to women, abuse your kids and run corrupt and unaccountable band councils and defy the laws of the land you are happy to take cheques from for too much longer without losing even more sympathy.
Quit the whining and join the human race, or be consigned to the irrelevance that beckons.
And you cannot slander an entire nation of people, for the actions of a few. (This is mainly in regards to the 'corrupt & unaccountable band councils, for it is their actions who are affecting the rest you are grouping in with them)
saga saga:
... but the government dithers and spends millions on pretending to negotiate instead, and policing ... to keep them 'in their place'.
Seems a waste of money and energy when we could just implement the laws and live in peace.
I disagree with this bit. The government isn't 'dithering' in my opinion, they have been actually working on this quite a bit, but yes it is costing a lot of money. English words change meaning over time, and its difficult without the people from previous generations here to help us along... when we have to figure out A: What the intentions were by the people who wrote the treaties as well as B: What the interpretations were by the first nations people who signed the treaties. Keep in mind that they were not necessarily always signing "what was written" but what they were led to believe was written by the Indian Agents, and that is one of many things which has caused such a mess that we're still dealing with it today.
Saga I gotta say that I admire your spirit but you've gotta understand that when you allow upset & passion & emotion to rule your posts, your personal feelings override the objective argument aspect of it. Not saying you shouldn't be passionate about the subject, just understand that getting frustrated isn't going to make the uneducated listen to anything you have to say...
saga @ Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:23 pm
Persiana Persiana:
saga saga:
... but the government dithers and spends millions on pretending to negotiate instead, and policing ... to keep them 'in their place'.
Seems a waste of money and energy when we could just implement the laws and live in peace.
I disagree with this bit. The government isn't 'dithering' in my opinion, they have been actually working on this quite a bit, but yes it is costing a lot of money. English words change meaning over time, and its difficult without the people from previous generations here to help us along... when we have to figure out A: What the intentions were by the people who wrote the treaties as well as B: What the interpretations were by the first nations people who signed the treaties. Keep in mind that they were not necessarily always signing "what was written" but what they were led to believe was written by the Indian Agents, and that is one of many things which has caused such a mess that we're still dealing with it today.
Saga I gotta say that I admire your spirit but you've gotta understand that when you allow upset & passion & emotion to rule your posts, your personal feelings override the objective argument aspect of it. Not saying you shouldn't be passionate about the subject, just understand that getting frustrated isn't going to make the uneducated listen to anything you have to say...
Sigh ... you are right ... and I know it ... but I guess I didn't know about the "uneducated" part. Thanks for clarifying that. Explains why my valid responses are met with insults, I guess eh?
YOU, however, are one cool lady.
I wish I could agree with you on the 'not dithering' but I really do see that happening. The land claims system is so bogged down that the land is being developed, mined, logged, etc. before the claim comes to their attention, unless someone blockades something to bring it to their attention. I don't think it is lack of resources, I think it is lack of will. Frankly, I think they are trying to strip the resources before dealing with the claims.
It's a question of honourable treatment versus deviousness, in my opinion. I am tired of Canada besmirching its own reputation with regard to aboriginal rights and titles. The UN has already censured us, and nothing has really changed since then.
$1:
Explains why my valid responses are met with insults, I guess eh?
Oh please.

Stop playing innocent...
saga @ Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:37 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
$1:
Explains why my valid responses are met with insults, I guess eh?
Oh please.

Stop playing innocent...
Well, menace, if I have ever hurt your feelings ... I do regret that because jumping bean that you are ... I have come to enjoy your little visits.
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
At what point to indians who make thier 'claims' based on canadian law start living by it peacefully.
Actually claims are made and settled based on Canadian law.
If Canadians stole land that was legitimately Indian land then you defeat your own argument.
At Ipperwash, for example, there is no doubt that the Canadian government took Indian land under the war measures act and promised to return it when they were done with it.
If the law applies equally across the board then Canada has the duty and obligation to settle land claims based on Canadian law.
If you are advocating that land claims not be resolved (without proving that they are baseless) then you are dismissing the very foundation that Canadian laws and the legal system were built on.
You accuse us of ignoring Canadian laws, but by ignoring legally based claims you are indeed the pot calling the kettle black.
saga @ Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:18 pm
"Comprehensive land claims are about the illegal occupation of native land by Canadians..."
saga saga:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
$1:
Explains why my valid responses are met with insults, I guess eh?
Oh please.

Stop playing innocent...
Well, menace, if I have ever hurt your feelings ... I do regret that because jumping bean that you are ... I have come to enjoy your little visits.

Whatever drugs you have been smoking...stop. GO get help. There are doctors everywhere. People who love you, well...That remains to be seen...
saga @ Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:25 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
saga saga:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
$1:
Explains why my valid responses are met with insults, I guess eh?
Oh please.

Stop playing innocent...
Well, menace, if I have ever hurt your feelings ... I do regret that because jumping bean that you are ... I have come to enjoy your little visits.

Whatever drugs you have been smoking...stop. GO get help. There are doctors everywhere. People who love you, well...That remains to be seen...
Thank you for your concern.
Be well.
I feel like I'm talking to a wall. That's only supposed to happen when I'm high, which I am not at this point in time...Sadly. 
Persiana Persiana:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Saga, when will you and many 1st Nations people stop being victims and bemoaning past treatment?
You do realize that this statement is akin to telling a murder victim's family to "get over it" right?
What you clearly are uneducated on is that the "treatment" is far from past, and is still occurring today. Its had a snowball effect, and is far from over & done with. What happens in the past, affects the future. What happened in the past, is still affecting us today. What's happening today, is going to be still affecting us years down the road... get it ? (Probably not, I've learned not to expect too much from the uneducated.)
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
First Nations deserve respect, but really the reservoir is drying up. You cannot subsist on welfare, deny property rights to women, abuse your kids and run corrupt and unaccountable band councils and defy the laws of the land you are happy to take cheques from for too much longer without losing even more sympathy.
Quit the whining and join the human race, or be consigned to the irrelevance that beckons.
And you cannot slander an entire nation of people, for the actions of a few. (This is mainly in regards to the 'corrupt & unaccountable band councils, for it is their actions who are affecting the rest you are grouping in with them)
I don't see any role models of native nobility in Caledonia. Unlike a good chunk of you 'educated' lefties in here I lived in Labrador for three years and I have seen the Innu in action.
Not a pretty sight that we pay for by the bucket load.
Don't give me you're condescending 'uneducated' attitude.
I have an opinion and I will speak, whether you agree with it or not. Such snobbery should be saved for your little intellectual wimp club when you can all chuckle at us lowly plebs and proles.
I agree that the 6 Nations were an honourable gathering of tribes that were loyal to the Crown and saved Canada from invasion.
But this behaviour in Caledonia is unacceptable, as is the Governments response. The OPP are a rudderless ship and turn a blind eye to everything the natives do.
We have no leaders in this Province, just well paid managers who will not make the tough decisions.
If the 6 Nations have a case for reparations it should be examined, in court. Not by flag burning masked thugs who are on welfare.
If we compensate the Mohawks et al for their bad land deals then we should compensate the descendants of the UEL's for the similar bad decisions they made to land speculators.
There are always two sides to every argument and I'm sick of hearing the view rammed down our throats by the left leaning media and ‘educated’ pundits.
Its time we stood up for doing the right thing, not just pander to minority issues or whatever our ‘educated’ whiners believe we should be doing.
saga @ Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:28 pm
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Persiana Persiana:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Saga, when will you and many 1st Nations people stop being victims and bemoaning past treatment?
You do realize that this statement is akin to telling a murder victim's family to "get over it" right?
What you clearly are uneducated on is that the "treatment" is far from past, and is still occurring today. Its had a snowball effect, and is far from over & done with. What happens in the past, affects the future. What happened in the past, is still affecting us today. What's happening today, is going to be still affecting us years down the road... get it ? (Probably not, I've learned not to expect too much from the uneducated.)
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
First Nations deserve respect, but really the reservoir is drying up. You cannot subsist on welfare, deny property rights to women, abuse your kids and run corrupt and unaccountable band councils and defy the laws of the land you are happy to take cheques from for too much longer without losing even more sympathy.
Quit the whining and join the human race, or be consigned to the irrelevance that beckons.
And you cannot slander an entire nation of people, for the actions of a few. (This is mainly in regards to the 'corrupt & unaccountable band councils, for it is their actions who are affecting the rest you are grouping in with them)
I don't see any role models of native nobility in Caledonia. Unlike a good chunk of you 'educated' lefties in here I lived in Labrador for three years and I have seen the Innu in action.
Not a pretty sight that we pay for by the bucket load.
Don't give me you're condescending 'uneducated' attitude.
I have an opinion and I will speak, whether you agree with it or not. Such snobbery should be saved for your little intellectual wimp club when you can all chuckle at us lowly plebs and proles.
I agree that the 6 Nations were an honourable gathering of tribes that were loyal to the Crown and saved Canada from invasion.
But this behaviour in Caledonia is unacceptable, as is the Governments response. The OPP are a rudderless ship and turn a blind eye to everything the natives do.
We have no leaders in this Province, just well paid managers who will not make the tough decisions.
If the 6 Nations have a case for reparations it should be examined, in court. Not by flag burning masked thugs who are on welfare.
If we compensate the Mohawks et al for their bad land deals then we should compensate the descendants of the UEL's for the similar bad decisions they made to land speculators.
There are always two sides to every argument and I'm sick of hearing the view rammed down our throats by the left leaning media and ‘educated’ pundits.
Its time we stood up for doing the right thing, not just pander to minority issues or whatever our ‘educated’ whiners believe we should be doing.
The educated people ... and the government ... and Six Nations ... think the negotiations should carry on ... without the instigation from racists who make up LIES like "flag burning masked thugs who are on welfare":
NO flags burned. Security requires masks. Did you ask them if they are on welfare? A fair number are iron workers, you know.
You have no respect, EYEBrow, and no claim to the name you like to call yourself.
saga @ Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:35 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
I feel like I'm talking to a wall. That's only supposed to happen when I'm high, which I am not at this point in time...Sadly.

That's not a wall jumping bean, that's the inside of your mask.
(is twilight zone playing inside your head?)