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Donny...As you are the champion for native rights then why don't you encourage the chiefs and councils to allow for private ownership on reserves. Instill some pride of ownership in your people. Rather than constantly demanding more lands do something with the lands you own. Take some of the profits from native run casinos and invest in infrastructure on the less fortunate reserves. Lobby the governments for more funds rather than blackmail them through blockades. Invest in resource companies so you can actually work at utilizing the resources available to all companies in Canada.

Get involved in Federal and Provincial politics so you can work with the governments rather than bitching about what they do.

If you can achieve this you will be a hero not only to your own people but the people who financially support them.

Your people have the same, if not better, access to education yet you underutilize it. Your population is growing faster than any other group of people yet you are the most misrepresented group in government. Why is that? Is it perhaps because you have an ingrained dependance upon the Federal and Provincial governments so you do not want that to change.

   

In Saskatchewan the province takes 37.5 percent of the profits right off the top.

25% of the profits go to Community Development Corporations which spend the majority of that money on non-native community projects.

The other 37.5% goes to the First Nations Trust fund and divied up between the 75 bands.

las year the profit from the casino's was less the $30 million (or something likethat.

Therefore every band got $150,000 on average.

That money is earmarked for economic and social developemnt.

And really, how far does that money go? A house or two, repair some stuff, pay some debt and what is left? Not much.

I agree, some people want handouts.

There are alot of programs in place to get people off welfare and to create jobs and businesses. No one wants to live in the slums on welfare. Its only been in the last few years that we've been making some real headway.

Support the positive things that are going on and remember it is a small minority who make us all look bad.

The programs that we are spending money on now will help ensure future generations become tax payers like you and I.

Some people worried that someone might get a hand up because of their skin colour would rather see proplr on welfare so they can complain about it.

   

WOW, thanks for the advice! You'd think we'd already thunk of that. Boy you sure are smart mr great white person!

You obviously have no clue about what is taking place across Canada to address these very issues.

   

I agree with you ther donny except mayby that last line.

I don't want anyone on welfare (if possible) however this is the real world..

and money should go where its needed.

The one thing I object to is race quotas. all it does is either a) make people think you got something cause u a minority or b) gets someone a spot they didn't deserve

   

Donny..Please enlighten me. If there was good news coming from native bands every once in a while people might just look differently at their situation. All we seem to be inundated with is "The whiteman did this to us and that to us and they owe us." Let's hear some positive things. I don't like reading about northern Manitoba bands asking Bill Gates for money on one hand and then hiding their books from their own people on the other.

   

What are you saying, that natives need a good marketing firm to sell you on their land claims?

   

No, I think democracy, accountability and equality would do the job.
I agree with PJB. It really is about time we stopped all these tax breaks, free schooling etc and our First Nations should take their rightful place in society instead of living in ethnic ghettoes.

And the first thing we should do about the 6 Nations claim is realise that they are not native to Canada, unlike say the Innu and Inuit, and they should be given exactly the same treatment as the United Empire Loyalists, who came to Upper Canada at the very same time.

Not all native land claims are equal and this one certainly deserves to be taken with a big fuck-off pinch of salt.

   

I'll start a thread and post all of the things that coma across my desk.

Thats the best idea you've ever had.

   

If they are not native to Canada then neither are you.

I wonder how the precedent of absconding with their land will affect Canada's assertion of sovereignty in the arctic once other countries move in with the claim:

"Canada is not native to this area nor have they used it or visited it for X amount of years. We will claim this land based on their own treatment of the Native inhabitants of Canada whom they have displaced using the same argument."

   

If they are not native, and trust me, neither am I, they should be treated the same as any other Canadian, not better, not more, not cheaper and tax free. Not able to thumb their nose at the laws that are applied to the rest of us.

I look forward to the day when the descendants of the United Empire Loyalists are given the same priviledges as the descendants of the Six Nations they came to Upper Canada with.

You are using the same old tired propaganda Donny. Research your arguments and you'll find not all native claims are equal.

   

Can you at least admit that the timing of this "protest", righteous or not, is dubious at best? The land was bequeathed by the Crown to the Six Nations people as both a haven and as recognition of the support the Six Nations people provided to the Crown. Over the course of years parcels of the land were severed to provide cash infusions necessary to continue. Some deals were good, some bad like any other real estate deal by any other resident. Cycle forward a few years to the purchase of the disbuted land by the current developers in 1991. There would have been notice on the county's books regarding the potential sale of the property and the ability to address any liens or concerns regarding the property. The sale went through and the developer owned the property. Now three assumptions can be made; one, there were no comments or concerns voiced by any concerned parties, two, concerns or claims were presented addressed and the sale was allowed to continue above board, or three, concerns or claims were voiced and summarily ignored. Now this is 1991 and supposedly an enlightened age. The forum to enter dispute of property is well documented for all parties to retain copies of. The claimant, defendant and the county all receive minutes from all meetings whether attended or not.

The ongoing investigation into the Six Nations claims will discover which of my assumptions are valid.

Next cycle through to 2005 when the Six Nations views the partially developed, (increased in value), property as something to which they are entitled and engage in legal proceedings with the developers lawyers as well as Haldimand County. Met by a legal stonewall they instigate a protest of their rights on provincial property.

Aside from the appearance of looking for a quick cash grab, I'm opposed to the way in which the representatives of the Six Nations are proceeding with their protest. For a media savvy group they seem to be unaware of the way they are being portrayed in the long run. The mish mash camp may appear to be the result of the poor and downtrodden underdog, but it further shows how little care and maintenance is being shown to their own homes.
The blocking of a public highway, open burning of dangerous goods, unsafe operation of motor vehicles and probably several other offences have already been commited in the name of a peacefull protest. The onsite trailers, computers and equipment have been broken, destroyed or stolen.
Area residents are fearful for the safety of themselves, their children and their property.

What I have noticed is that after Oka, Ipperwash, ( I do apologize if I spelled that incorrectly), is that "peaceful protests", are too prolonged leading to "police actions", which has usually proceeded to opening sorties of escalated violence.

My answer is to get the "warriors" off the line, back to work and their homes and families and let the representatives from the County, Province or whomever they choose to proceed, and the Elders and legal team from the Six Nations work this out.

The damage has been done in the community and will be a long time in healing. Native relations has been touchy for a long time and this will only cause more harm whatever the end outcome. If there is any resulting violence I'm worried the backlash would be very severe for both groups.

   

While I agree, like in all legal matters that land claims are not all equal, you might ask youself this.

Had you heard of this land claim, filed in 1987, prior to this?

The other arguement is why not wait until the site is fully developed and houses are ready for sale? THey could have moved into fresh new houses and claimed everything!

They didn't. Because they saw that the development would create a senerio that they would be unable to justify such actions.

The actions by the developers made it necessary for the Indians to say "wait a minute, we still own this land".

So I would be careful by saying this was an overly opportunistic moment to take a stand.

Imagine the shit that would fly around here if these Mohawk were holed up in brand spanking new houses on the same site a few months later!

   

But why the 14 year lag? Why? Both groups have their own legal expertise or the ability to hire outside experts.
And now they have the mud is even murkier.
I don't accept the fact that they didn't wait until the homes were ready for possesion as a credit to the planning of the Six Nations representatives.
I'm sure this protest was not the desired outcome of the land claim, but in for a penny in for a pound.
There is a time to back down. They've made their point that the land is under dispute. An investigation is proceeding so the Six Nations is not going to gain anything further by staying on the line. Residents are disturbed and close to ready to consider vigilante action, the police are stuck in the middle and realize that no matter what action they have to take, someone is going to cry about their civil liberties being infringed upon! Hamiltonguy is talking about burning their food supply to the ground! Granted he's a 15 year old and likely to look to a direct solution, he's not going to be the only one. Some older resident is going to get a couple of brown pops in him and his friends and decide he's Rambo! And then the fan will truly be swamped!

If you've got any pull ask them to clear the line. They've done their job.

   

a) I have no pull

b) Ipperwash and Oka disputes led to the land being returned to the Natives who stood their ground

c) I am not aware of many land claims that get resolved faster then 14 years. 20 years is the norm for settlements. More if they end up in court.

d) I appreciate your rhetorical skill. It is refreshing.

   

a) I thought I'd try.
b) If the ends justify the means then by all means, but the fall out of both were too bitter and do not lead to any sort of future co-operation. Blamestorming. Only the liars, er, lawyers prosper.
c) If events were put into motion back in the 90's when the land was assuredly legally sold then there would be no issue today.

Thanks for keeping this debate civil.

   

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