The "final solution": Made in Canada
saga saga:
Regina Regina:
Are you saying Canada as a country systematically tried to kill off the natives the same way the Nazis did with the Jews?
Yes.
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saga @ Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:52 pm
SireJoe SireJoe:
Seeing as how Im pretty sure 90% of the people here use the "most recent posts" section, I dont see your complaint as much of an issue.
And just as a little heads up....you are as much the PEANUT GALLERY as anyone else on this forum, try not to go to high on that pedestal. Your liable to find your face on the ground real quick.
As for the whole nazi = Canada thing....I aint really buying into that fruit cake myself. Sounds like more bitching from that side of the fence...could be me just being a bit close minded on the issue, but I cant really blame myself for that one. How many times do we have to hear about the poor hard done by native people.....I find native people get a hell of a lot more from Canada than any "white" guy ever has. Same thing again though, could just be me being pig headed.
Dont know if I care really....My feeling on all this is that there is WAY to much opportunity out there from anyone to have such a narrow focus on the issue. It always seems to be a give give give deal. And Canada seems to give give and give some more and it never is enough. Whatever. Im tired.I wanna hear the other side of this "debate" as it where.I sure as hell dont know enough about all the issues surrounding it.
OUT

and you are the "moderator " here?
No, it doesn't appear you do know much about it. Start with my first post if interested in learning. Without information, "opinions" are worth peanuts.
We owe Indigenous people a lot more than we have ever "given" them, and with resources stolen, interest accrual, etc. we're toast unless we start negotiating in good faith. Genocide won't work this time. UN is watching.
Where do you live? Toronto? gone ... Mississaugas Nations 2003 ... paying for that will cost us a bit, eh? Fortunately we don't have to pay for Toronto Islands as they still own them ... unceded land ... they will be reclaiming them soon. ... Windsor area?? Pelee Island ... also unceded ... waiting for them to reclaim it too.
Please reconsider my request... if indeed you are the moderator. Canadians need to KNOWLEDGE not knee JERK opinions. Otherwise, they won't know what hit them. Government doesn't tell us anything. They acknowledged Toronto Islands and Pelee Islands, and closed their file. That's the extent of their information for Canadians on this topic.
.... and ask an older Canadian what they know about Duncan Campbell Scott.
... and where my post is located is still an issue to me.

... because of what that says ... "go away ... shut up ... go back to your teepee"
thx.
saga @ Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:56 pm
Regina Regina:
1) Newbie comes for a visit and makes a post.
2) Newbie gets ass kicked to curb never to be seen again.
BOO!!
Wow.... What a profoundly idiotic, asinine thread.
Someone actually believes that Canada's treatment of aboriginals - admittedly nothing to be proud of - can be literally compared to the Holocaust. 
saga @ Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:07 pm
Virgil Virgil:
saga saga:
2006-08-27, 11:16:0
Haudenosaunee Six Nations are in negotiations with the federal and provincial governments to reclaim their land and their autonomy ... SIX MILES DEEP on either side of the Grand River, from source (Orangeville) to mouth (Lake Erie). SPRAWL development has HALTED on the Grand!
Those who love the land are in no jeopardy ... assuming our governments negotiate in good faith.
This is a turning point in Canada's history. This is where Canada grows up.
why is it that the White man can give him alchohol and greed, and then pat him on the back and say to him, "there my friend, now you are civilized"
Thank you, would one of my opponents on these issues at least try to stand up to me in debate this time?
If you want an explaination of why the Six Nations are right in their cause than ask the Ontario government. And as I have said many times, how many tribes or bands situations have been recognised without the establishement of blockades?
Virgil ... truth warrior ... welcome to my thread.
Nya:Weh for your important remarks and humane perspective.
Carry on!
Reprise ... especially for you
Youngblood speaks up for Haudenosaunee Six Nations
saga @ Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:26 pm
Canadaka Canadaka:
I say if your lands are given back then any and all special status should be given up. Its long enough natives have received the handouts from ottawa.
Social programs and things to combat alcoholism, violence and poverty should remain or be increased, but not the free hand-outs, disocunts, just for being native.
I think a lot of the native problems are because they get this "free ride" and the problem wil never be fixed unless they are treated as Canadian citizens, nothing more, nothing less. and that DOES not mean assimulation, any Canadian has there right to there own beleives, religion, way of life.
I also think reserves should be abolished, they only increase these negative things, and help to segregate. Does not mean there shouldn't be native communities, just means its not a rule, or a requirment.
As for this "final solution" and 6 Nations lands issue, I don't know enough about it to comment.
They would agree with that ... no more Canadian government "oversight" on their sovereign territory. They choose NOT to be Canadian. Unlike the rest of us, they did not 'come here' for that purpose, and we haven't been very nice to them. See "final solution" link in first post if you wonder why.
What free ride are you talking about? There is no monthly cheque. Their communities are government funded at HALF the rate of our municipalities (WITHOUT including local taxes). The ones I know are professionals, business people, iron workers, etc.
Where does this free ride rumour come from? Government maybe? I wonder why? Why are they trying to denigrate, dismiss, deny Indigenous rights and titles ... and people? (See final solution link.) The UN is onto Canada ... we are on the watch list.
saga @ Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:44 pm
Tricks Tricks:
So...The "white man" is to blame for the Native American's choices? We did not force it upon him, we showed it to him. He made to choice to abuse it.
Beg to differ ... see first post.
$1:
The rights that we fight for are not those of greed!;
YOU may not be fighting because of greed. But many are.[/quote]
Not the traditional people. They are reemerging as a powerful force, and they want the land.
$1:
No. It isn't. There was war fought here. The winner of that war got the land. It isn't the "white man's" problem that the NAtive American's were outsmarted. Or beaten in the war. It has happened all over the world. Do you see them demanding compensation?
There was no war against the Indigenous people in Canada!!
They were our allies!!
(WHERE do you GET this crap?)
If not for the Iroquois/Haudenosaunee warriors, WE WOULDN'T BE CANADA!!!
... we would be U.S. Read up on the war of 1812-1814 where they saved us from that fate. (Some of us still care about that.) We signed treaties and agreements with them, Royal Proclamations, etc. All of these are validated by our Constitution (1982).
We invited them to live in Canada as cherished allies, gave them the Grand River Valley, just like United Empire Loyalists who also had to flee the U.S. after the War of Independence were given land.
Canada has been in violation of its own laws for a VERY long time.
Haudenosaunee Six Nations are changing that now.
Grand River ... SIX MILES DEEP on either side... SOURCE TO MOUTH (Orangeville to Lake Erie)
It is theirs ... and they love the land.
saga @ Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:51 pm
Mustang1 Mustang1:
I already commented on this goof’s blog, but let’s see Herodotus here establish that Canada (and that’s the nation-state of Canada, genius) instituted systemic policies geared towards genocide. Oh, and let’s see you establish the parallels with Nazi Germany as it’s always fun seeing people like you actually go beyond the empty rhetoric.
I’ll wait while this amateur fumbles with that.
I'll wait until you learn who Duncan Campbell Scott was.
See first post.
Here's a clue: DCS (Superintendent of Indian Affairs Canada 1913-1932) coined the phrase "final solution". Hitler picked it up in 1933.
Then come on back, good buddy, cos I haven't eaten a youngun in a long time!
hehehehehehe
saga @ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:08 am
$1:
Well, yes and no. We actually did force stuff down the throats of the natives. But there were other things that merely influenced them.
Calling Canada's treatment of natives genocidal, is just plain stupid. It was nothing like genocide in it's truest form. You seem like someone who has been brainwashed from early on to see the white man as evil.
WWII - Extermination of the Jews
The current crisis in Sudan
Crisis in Rwanda
These, my friend, are example of true genocide.
Sure, the white man came and fucked our people royally, but we haven't exactly make things better. The natives have problems of their own that are not the White Man's fault.
Hmmm ... just checked my skin and it's still white!:wink:
I am a supporter of Haudenosaunee.
I am a Canadian ... of Irish descent and friggen fighting mad that MY country ... is an ASS!!
Re WWII ... see the link in frst post ... the "final solution" was invented here ... 1913-1932 officially. Hitler picked up on it in 1933.
Of course you know we Canadians are polite ... not going to go out and massacre people ... somebody might TELL on us!!
We did it over SIX GENERATIONS and counting. We had the churches do the dirtiest work for us (now how polite is that, eh?). Only half of the kids who went in to the residential schools came out alive. Last government run one one closed in 1986. There are still some to tell the tales ... and they do ... search residential schools, survivor, stories.
They are moving forward ... They know the way to health and dignity is through reclaiming their land and sovereignty. I, however, am only beginning a campaign of education for Canadians who may not be aware of what Canada's governments have done in our name.
Just like the court system ... gotta show remorse if you want leniency ... and healing. Otherwise, we are a festering bunch of puss-pots!
Interesting ... your history. Indigenous people from here have visited. The concerns about the rainforest there are the same as about the boreal forest here. They intend to preserve the land, and that will be good for all of us!
saga @ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:11 am
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
I feel sad that such a proud people fell from grace... to foreign invaders...
They were our allies ... saved us from being American.
saga @ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:17 am
canadian1971 canadian1971:
Hitler(and I capitalised it only because it's starting off a sentence) murdered people.....a whole fucking lot of people....whitey killed alot of people......indirectly through disease mostly.
Yes disease ... in the residential schools TB was the biggie ... kinda tends to spread if you put the well children in bed with two sick children ... systematically ... on purpose.
Only half of the kids who went to the schools (over 100 years in Canada) came out alive.
Traditional people who stayed on the land and kept their traditional ways were the targets.
Hitler learned it from us, but he did not have Canadian politeness and reserve ... he was MUCH too public about it!
See first post.
saga @ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:25 am
Mustang1 Mustang1:
This saga guy is yet another historical revisionist. He’s pushing an agenda and he’s misrepresenting (ok, he’s flat out wrong here) history as a means of somehow granting legitimacy to his contemporary cause. This won’t be about cause/effect relationships, ethno studies, comparative analysis or competent historical analysis, it’ll simply be another amateur looking to avoid accepting his people’s historical accountability by erroneously suggesting their akin to the plight of Jews, Roma, Sinti and other state-identified undesirables under the Third Reich. It’s smacks of banality and it’s easily rebuffed. You’ll notice how our little Thucydides has yet to return to substantiate his moronic claim. Typical.
Woman ... thanks ... fighting-Irish Canadian woman!!
If I am wrong ... where is YOUR evidence?
Mine is in the first post.
And for the record ... I did not say "Hitler" ... you guys did.
I was only quoting Duncan Campbell Scott, Superintendent of Indian Affairs Canada 1913-1932. He coined the phrase "the final solution". Appears Hitler picked it up in 1933.
And also for the record ... Canada was a racist country then ... would not take the Jews who were fleeing Europe. Not until the war was over and the death camps were discovered was Canada FORCED to reconsider.
If we know not our history, we know not ourselves ... for someone more knowledgeable can always come along and shake our foundations.
Read the first post ... and link.
saga @ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:33 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Virgil Virgil:
$1:
I think alcoholism beat Canada to the punch.
Unfortunately that's almost true. Why do you not strive to help the Indians, Metis and Inuits in the stead of sitting there making jokes about it? They are your cousins by evolution and creation, so why is it that you care for them so little? I would do my best to help the White people were the situation reversed, I do not only converse with Natives on the street who have alchohol problems, I discuss with people of all cultures.
Why do Indians not help themselves? The community spends more time fighting with the government over land claims while their people die and rot due to alcolholism.
For the 15 years I spent with the Chippewa's of Georgina Island, I learned something. It's all about the money. The money they get from the government, the non-taxation and the oodles of money they make from leasing their land back to the "white man".
They have no desire to advance their community and solve the issues that run deep. They have the desire to suck more money from the tit of the government while letting their community turn into a National joke.
Good for them. Got their land back eh?
Research shows that groups with land claims in process and self-governance are MUCH healthier. Adolescent suicide is a key indicator. Did you know there are places in Canada now where it is as high as 80%? "Problems" are relative ... and relative to the problems they had before, I'll bet they are doing better now.
I want to make a distinction between Canada's elected Band Councils and the Ongwehonwe traditional people. Very different motivations ... different as tories and liberals and in many of the same ways.
Haudenosaunee Six Nations Confederacy has assumed leadership from the Band Council, and operates administration in partnership with them. They want the land back so they can preserve it.
saga @ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:35 am
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Here in North vancouver, the Squamish Nation is erecting billboards at several locations that will toally spoil the view of the mountains as you drive north over the Lion's Gate bridge. Instead you'll see ads for toilet bowl cleaners. The community is outraged, pointing out that there was no propower consultation and that the idea was merely preented to them by the Squamish nation as fait accompli.
Ironic--that's exactly what the natives have been saying for generations when whitey wants to build a new dam on their ancestral homeland. I'm sure that there's a perverse sense of payback in the Squamish Nation's decision to do this.
On the other hand, it will probaboyl backfire on Squamish Nation. Things done for spite usually do.
They ar just giving you a sample of how it will look once the highway goes through.
saga @ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:38 am
canadian1971 canadian1971:
saga saga:
Regina Regina:
Are you saying Canada as a country systematically tried to kill off the natives the same way the Nazis did with the Jews?
$1:
Yes.
$1:
:roll:
And you would know, being 'Regina' and all.
Pls read the first post and the link, then do your own research to refute it.
I'm waiting ......