Previous  1  2  3  4

[QUOTE]French speaking Canadians were assaulted way before Trudeau and Chrétien. One just has to recall the forced closing of french schools in western provinces back in the 1800's. Francophones used to make up more than half of the population there and today, they are represented by a measly 4 %. Before the quiet revolution, with few exceptions to the rule, it was mostly a class system between the French and English which ruled everyone's rank and place in Québec society. The French were forced to stay within the lower ranks of the social ladder. It had nothing to do with Trudeau or Chrétien. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> There were past attempts to assimilate the French, but that was in the 1700s and early 1800s.....so the French were ruled. Controlling their own economy meant the head offices left Montreal.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Trudeau later implemented multiculturalism so Canadian francophones could be considered at par with any other 'foreign' immigrant population to Canada. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> To make them "just another group". Brilliant idea. That said the same policy was adopted in Australia and other places, so I doubt there was just one reason for it--probably dozens of reasons that would piss many people off.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]That his policy would turn around and eventually bite Canadians and their ill-defined cultural society was not anticipated back in the seventies but there you go. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> Our English society was well-defined until the insanity of the Post-W.W. II intellectually movements. It's very hard to control this kind of thing, when people collectively go insane at the same time.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Italic by michou. Samuel may know what you are talking about but I don't. If you mean forced to enroll in the French schooling system, then I understand. As far as I know, Canada does not have parallel school systems for Chinese, Indian or South Americans immigrants in their language of origin either. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Yeay, although you would be surprised how many foreign religious and culutural school there are in Canada. (i.e. Armenian schoo where people aren't taught anything about Canada--breaking our laws probably.)<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]What is this comment all about ? Could you elaborate. This is the first I hear of forced immigration on Québec. Forced immigration rules that do not agree with Québec society is one thing, and that is why Québec has fought and won a say in the matter but forced immigration populations on Québec ? Please elaborate on the matter.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> What I mean is that even though Quebec forces immigrants to learn French, their immigration policy is still awful. They still accpet way too many immigrants at once--Canada accepts 260,000--Quebec accepts about 125,000, but that is a lot too as the Quebec population is smaller than Canada's as a whole.<br /> <br /> Large numbers of even very similar immigrants will homogenize, weaken the distinct dialect(s) of French in Quebec. The key is to raise the birth rate while accpeting only very small numbers of simliar immigrants if any are needed at all.<br /> <br /> Quebec's attempt to raise the birth rate has been a failure, as it only worked in rural areas that already had higher birth rate.<br /> <br /> The globalization that is happening to Canada is happening to Quebec--Quebec takes immigrants from any French-speaking nation and even some that aren't. This is not traditional Quebec. <br /> <br /> The elitists who are forcing Canada to lost its distinctiveness and doing the same to Quebec via massive immigration from different ethnic groups. However, fear of being perceived as racist have created a situation where the "pur laine" who are the real Quebecois if anyone is will be pushed out of the way and become a minority in their own society. They may even die out eventually.<br /> <br /> This problem is compounded as the Catholic, traditional French society was decimated by the Quiet Revolution and urbanization among other things.<br /> <br /> Many Quebecois now think that promiscuity, abortion are more important than the traditional family and children. This has led to a birth rate that is not sustainable at 1.2/couple. The Quebecois are going extinct, but not why you think they are. They are due to non-traditional immigration, intermarriage and low birth rates. It is simply a mathematical inevitability if nothing changes.

   

You're so wrong purturbed, stop reading raw statistics and take a drive over to Québec some day. The québécois skin color may be taking on different shades, but the culture remains, is stronger than ever and is being adopted by newcomers. You can't say the same of English Canada, certainly not living in Toronto you can't.<br /> <br /> The key is managed immigration and integration, which the Feds have been a dismal failure at and no grass roots efforts seem to be pressuring them to take charge of. In fact, I believe their is a Sikh mouvement that have expressed the need for their community to embrace Canada's cultural heritage. It's a sad day when immigrants recognize and express this fact and not a single traditional Canadian is leading the cause. They're too busy watching American Idol, I guess <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'>

   

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] You're so wrong purturbed, stop reading raw statistics and take a drive over to Québec some day. The québécois skin color may be taking on different shades, but the culture remains, is stronger than ever and is being adopted by newcomers. You can't say the same of English Canada, certainly not living in Toronto you can't.<br /> <br /> The key is managed immigration and integration, which the Feds have been a dismal failure at and no grass roots efforts seem to be pressuring them to take charge of. In fact, I believe their is a Sikh mouvement that have expressed the need for their community to embrace Canada's cultural heritage. It's a sad day when immigrants recognize and express this fact and not a single traditional Canadian is leading the cause. They're too busy watching American Idol, I guess [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> English Canada is fine outside of the major city centres in some places, though there still are the homogenizing effects of technology. Toronto yes is not the same. This being said.....<br /> <br /> I still can't see Samuel for someone who is suuposedly anti-globalization how you can't see that multiracialism is also part of globalism--not just multiculturalism. Race is about more than cosmetic "shades" of colour.<br /> <br /> I have had many French Canadians tell me that the city of Montreal "is not the Quebecois". Montreal is your most important city and economic engine, as feeble as it might be compared to its past self. Montreal is your symbol more than Quebec City and Montreal may not be Toronto, but it is getting there.<br /> <br />

   

<br /> Thanks for your added thoughts on Québec immigration Perturbed but as Samuel has noted, « tu es à côté de tes bottines » with this one and a long vacation in Québec would provide you with a fresh outlook about immigrants and their place in la belle province’s society and culture. <br /> <br /> I just had to laugh when you wrote that immigrants would weaken Québec french. A living language is a language able to adapt and mutate with the times. Trying to keep a language frozen in time is a sure way of killing it for good. <br /> As for Québec accepting more immigrants in terms of population ratio than the rest of Canada, Québec is able to do it without being swallowed up because of the same reason invoked by Samuel. Québec culture is well-defined, strong, active, alive and inclusive. Québec culture is not one that lives on the back of its traditions but one that has learned to continuously and creatively reinvent itself. As for immigrants, not only do they find a specific and vibrant culture to integrate themselves in, but a culture welcoming of others and open to have them join in and add to it. Québec does not hang onto its traditions as a cultural lifebuoy. One example of this change is a "new" style of music very popular amongst the younger generation (and all others I may add), it is actually called ‘trad-music’. It has a definite Québec traditional beat but it is filled with a fresh new sound everyone can relate too, even immigrants...<br /> If as you say, Canada is losing its distinctiveness due to immigrant populations, the reverse seems to hold true in Québec. Not only is Québec still distinct, the immigration integration into its culture only seems to enrich it further. As for that « pure laine » concept and the way you interpret it, you can throw it out the window because that is what most Québécers have also done with it. Times change Perturbed. <br /> You write as one who truly believes in the white man supremacy. Québécers do not believe in ‘racial’ differences as much as they do towards ‘cultural’ ones. Cultures, like languages, are alive only when they have the ability to adapt and to keep up with the times. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Many Quebecois now think that promiscuity, abortion are more important than the traditional family and children.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Now that is one comment worth a thousand laughs.

   

[QUOTE]Thanks for your added thoughts on Québec immigration Perturbed but as Samuel has noted, « tu es à côté de tes bottines » with this one and a long vacation in Québec would provide you with a fresh outlook about immigrants and their place in la belle province’s society and culture. <br /> <br /> I just had to laugh when you wrote that immigrants would weaken Québec french.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> That's not what I said. What I said is LARGE numbers of immigrants at a time will make it hard for Quebec to absorb them and I stand by this. Many anglophones who HAVE vacationied in the beautiful province of Quebec have told me that the Quebecois are as worried about immigration as the Italians are, and why wouldn't they be?<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE] A living language is a language able to adapt and mutate with the times. Trying to keep a language frozen in time is a sure way of killing it for good. <br /> As for Québec accepting more immigrants in terms of population ratio than the rest of Canada, Québec is able to do it without being swallowed up because of the same reason invoked by Samuel. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> If a language is to change, it should evolve WITHOUT interference.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Québec culture is well-defined, strong, active, alive and inclusive. [/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> That sounds like something the Quebec Liberal pArty would say--straight out of their Marxist handbook.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Québec culture is not one that lives on the back of its traditions but one that has learned to continuously and creatively reinvent itself.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Then explain that little "Je me souviens: expression. <br /> <br /> What is the point of a separate Quebec if you want it to be culturally socialist? You want to destroy the very reasons for a separate Quebec--its 400+ year old dialect(s) of French.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]As for immigrants, not only do they find a specific and vibrant culture to integrate themselves in, but a culture welcoming of others and open to have them join in and add to it. Québec does not hang onto its traditions as a cultural lifebuoy. One example of this change is a "new" style of music very popular amongst the younger generation (and all others I may add), it is actually called ‘trad-music’. It has a definite Québec traditional beat but it is filled with a fresh new sound everyone can relate too, even immigrants...[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> That style of music is a sub-culture of popular culture. Different subject--and NOT a reason worth separating to protect.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]If as you say, Canada is losing its distinctiveness due to immigrant populations, the reverse seems to hold true in Québec.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> Bullshit.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Not only is Québec still distinct, the immigration integration into its culture only seems to enrich it further. [/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> Communist.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]As for that « pure laine » concept and the way you interpret it, you can throw it out the window because that is what most Québécers have also done with it. Times change Perturbed. <br /> You write as one who truly believes in the white man supremacy.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> Go tell the French in France that racism is a thing og the past--they voted for Jean Marie Le Pan about 20% and he finished 2nd last election, and the government followed his lead during the Paris riots.<br /> <br /> Go tell the Japanese or Chinese that ethnic nationalism is a thing of the past. Go tell Israel that they should stop caring that Palestineans might become the majority in their own country.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Québécers do not believe in ‘racial’ differences as much as they do towards ‘cultural’ ones. Cultures, like languages, are alive only when they have the ability to adapt and to keep up with the times. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Please don't tell me what all Quebecers think....you might be surprised though the French like the British have a history of egalitarianism. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<i>Many Quebecois now think that promiscuity, abortion are more important than the traditional family and children</i>.<br /> <br /> Now that is one comment worth a thousand laughs.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> 1 - Are you disputing the fact that Quebec has the lowest brith rate (1.2) in the western world??<br /> <br /> 2 - Are you forgetting the fact that the Quiet Revolutuion secularized a healthy Catholic society? It wasn't healthy economically, but the agricultural society produced lots of fat, healthy Quebecois babies to replenish the population. Now the opposite is true.<br /> <br /> Quebecers are more interested in socialist politics, abortion rights, gay rights, and sleeping around than ensuring their own survival via more children. That is hypocritical to say the least. They are a dying people to be sure.<br /> <br /> The policies of Maurice Duplessis are like a dream now.....oh yeah, apparently U.S. porn producers are in Montreal as apparently French accents are "cute". More evidence of the degenerate society Quebec has become. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/lol.gif' alt='Laughing Out Loud'>

   

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] <br /> If a language is to change, it should evolve WITHOUT interference.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> This would be a first in human history Perturbed. Not only are we ever moving away from non-interference, we are becoming more and more interconnected and English is slowly but surely losing its precedence over the net. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<br /> What is the point of a separate Quebec if you want it to be culturally socialist? You want to destroy the very reasons for a separate Quebec--its 400+ year old dialect(s) of French.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> You cannot understand Perturbed because you can only think like an imperialist-colonialist supremacist. <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<br /> Go tell the French in France that racism is a thing og the past--they voted for Jean Marie Le Pan about 20% and he finished 2nd last election, and the government followed his lead during the Paris riots.<br /> <br /> Go tell the Japanese or Chinese that ethnic nationalism is a thing of the past. Go tell Israel that they should stop caring that Palestineans might become the majority in their own country.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> First off, I am not French, I am Québécoise. Secondly, I never said racism did not exist in Québec but that the majority of us don't think of ourselves as the beginning and end of it all. <br /> Québec is renowned for its inclusive and open society. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<br /> Please don't tell me what all Quebecers think....you might be surprised though the French like the British have a history of egalitarianism. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> As long as they're on top you mean. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<i>Many Quebecois now think that promiscuity, abortion are more important than the traditional family and children</i>.<br /> <br /> Now that is one comment worth a thousand laughs.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I was not disputing the low birth rate. Québec secularized a healthy Catholic society ? Are you joking ? Is that how you wish to live Perturbed, under someone else's thumb with the fear of hell to keep you in line ? <br /> <br /> Now do you understand why you can be so funny at times ? <br /> <br /> Québec women don't get pregnant so they can enjoy getting an abortion. Surprised Perturbed ? And if Québec has become a degenerate society as you think it has, why do Canadians follow Québec social trends and why do Canadians still wish to keep us locked up within their federation ?

   

As usual you ignored some of what I said but here goes michou: <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]This would be a first in human history Perturbed. Not only are we ever moving away from non-interference, we are becoming more and more interconnected and English is slowly but surely losing its precedence over the net. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I don't care if English loses its precendent on the net. That said, a language should evolve without being bombarded with more stress than it needs. We can't control the technological revolution very easily right now but we can control out immigration policy if we try harder. <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]You cannot understand Perturbed because you can only think like an imperialist-colonialist supremacist.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> What's wrong with that? Does every have to believe in glorifying weakness?<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]First off, I am not French, I am Québécoise. Secondly, I never said racism did not exist in Québec but that <b><i>the majority of us don't think of ourselves as the beginning and end of it all</i></b>. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> HAHAHAHA. I though the Fransh were what it was all about? Oh I see, so it is your language that is so sacred and makes you the chosen ones, but race is no big deal.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Québec is renowned for its inclusive and open society. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> RIIIGHT. You'll take black people from Haiti who speak French but push out white people who are more like you and closer historically if they speak English like you guys did with the language laws. HAHAHAHAHA. HAHAHAHA. Open and inclusive. HAHAHAHAHA.<br /> <br /> Ironically, separatist star Lucienne Bouchard is now basically a federalist and is focusing on "improving the white birth rate". No racism involved in separatism. I can find his site if you want.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]As long as they're on top you mean. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> The British no longer run the world but they are still egalitarian and very politically correct. Their last governor of Hong Kong still refuses to admit China is a threat.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]I was not disputing the low birth rate. Québec secularized a healthy Catholic society ? Are you joking ? Is that how you wish to live Perturbed, under someone else's thumb with the fear of hell to keep you in line ? [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Health with respect to the birth rate, which is more important. No one is suggesting electing anothe rauthoritarian, although you could probably use one.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Now do you understand why you can be so funny at times ? [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> As opposed to separatists who are funny ALL the time? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/razz.gif' alt='Razz'> <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Québec women don't get pregnant so they can enjoy getting an abortion. Surprised Perturbed ? [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Obviously, but why are they so weak and pathetic as to take the easy way out? I guess getting screwed is more important than thinking ahead, but adoption is always an adoption so I stand by my view the society is degenerate.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]And if Québec has become a degenerate society as you think it has, why do Canadians follow Québec social trends and why do Canadians still wish to keep us locked up within their federation ?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Canada just elected a Conservative leader--that is not a Quebec social trend. In this case, Quebec followed and voted in a few Conservatives.<br /> <br /> As for why we want you, great question. That one is very complicated. I wouldn't assume everyone think like the Liberal Party--most Canadians actually don't, they just vote for the lesser of all evils..

   

I live and work in Montreal. I walk down the street in downtown and I see a lot of people with different backgrounds. I'm all for welcoming others into our community. But what I've seen so far, I did not like. A lot of kids my age (twenties) are moching the french Canadian culture. A lot of them think their culture is superior. Sure I could say, if you don't like a culture, go back to where you come from. But I also understand that, not everyone is given the opportunity to thrive equally in their own country.

So what are we left with? Tons of minorities sticking together. I could even deal with that. But when I see a person I know get half of his salary taken away just for taxes, and be charged crazy amounts of taxes when he buys almost anything, I don't feel its right to have this many immigrants. Sure, I should not generalize. There are French Quebecers who don't pay taxes. But I got a feeling like the majority of non-tax payers are the immigrants. Our community is not thriving. We should cool it on the immigration.

   

Previous  1  2  3  4