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I want a large in-depth discussion on this topic. At this point in history is front and centre and as well it should be. People talk about freedom and equality, about freedom of speech and freedom of expression. But talk is cheap and many people talk about these things but refuse to acknowledge them to some. IÂ’ll wait to he some opinions of other before I engage my own. IÂ’d like to hear from everyone on this topic.

   

I don't even understand why this is an issue. Why wouldn't gays have the same rights as the rest of us? They are just like the rest of us, after all. I've had friends pick severely flawed spouses in the past and nobody tried to take away their rights.

The recent battles have been less about homosexual rights than the separation of church and state, with religious leaders condemning state attempts to give equal rights to same-sex couples. All of the arguments have their basis in religious belief. Since nobody is talking about forcing churches to perform same-sex marriages, it is a matter of some trying to force their religious beliefs upon others through government. That is wrong.

   

I know. Whouls should being gay mean thats all you are, your a gay person and thats it. Why should your sexuality even matter its only a small part of you you are.

Now the church is somthing else. Yes the bible says homosexuality is an abominatio, it says that. People try to take Religious doctrine and make it law, and stand by the bible as being right. Funny thing is the bible also says;

People should be out to death if;
• They work on the Sabbath
• Touch the skin of a dead pig (all those football players)
• Plant two difference crops side by side
• Wear clothes made with two different threads

But people donÂ’t bring up the bible when people brake these rules, only bring up the bible if it fits the ignorant tight ass agenda

The Bible also condones slavery.

   

You should do some more reading on homosexuality and the Bible. Whether the Bible does, in fact, say that homosexuality is a sin is largely a function of the translation. The famous quote of "Homosexuality is an abomination" can also be translated to the effect that "two men should not have sex in a woman's bed because it is inappropriate or unclean place".

   

Well IÂ’m not a bible scholar.

   

Like Adam says; the Bible says a lot of crap nobody pays attention too.

As far as gay marriage... I think I said it somewhere here before, "Marriage is a union between a man and a woman. Two men aren't a man and a woman. Two women aren't a man and a woman." Why is that so hard to understand? They can wed. They can be joined in blessed union. They can jump the stick. They can ride the merry-go-round. They can do lots of things, but they can't be married. It's just a matter of semantics.

As far as equality; in my world they have never been unequal. Equal doesn't mean they can wear leather pants with the asses cut out to church and make out on street corners though. In my world no one wears leather pants with the ass cut out and makes out in public.

Thank you.

   

Footballs haven't been make out of pigskin since the leather helmut days.

   

Why is it so hard for you to understand that gay marriage is a secular issue? It is about the LEGAL definition of marriage. Homosexuals are not being treated equally under the LAW. If we, as a society, choose to have a legal definition of marriage, than that definition needs to include homosexual marraige in order for it to be equitable.

BTW, AdamNF, didn't mean to suggest that you need to be a biblical scholar. I just wanted to clear up some popularly held misconceptions about what the bible does say. I would be interested in seeing someone who is knowledgeable of the Bible to argue that it does, in fact, claim that consensual homosexuality is wrong. I think they'll find it more difficult than they expect.

   

That's Old Testement pertaining to the Jewish faith not it's offspring Christianity. Many of the Laws in the Old Testement were cast aside by the coming of Christ. First and foremost Christians follow the New Testement, ie. the Gospels and the works of Jesus early followers (Luke, Peter, Paul ect.) In the New Testement marriage was defined as 1 man and 1 woman. If the goverment wants to perform their false "marriage" of a homosexual couple fine, but don't expect the Church to bless that Union. There is a fine line between acceptance and approval. Many Churches make it clear that they don't approve of homosexuality but all sins being equal they will accept them, but not bless them. Adam for someone concerned with equality you seem to have a pretty big hate on for any and all things religious.



You also said you weren't a Bible scholar. Just a question, have you ever read part or all of the Bible? If part, then which parts?

   

but you just aren't making sense. I tell you that a cow is a cow. You tell me that you want the legal definition of a something that neighs and has metal shoes on its feet to be "cow" because it eats hay too. Sorry, it's a horse. Cow is already taken.

   

Says the bible.
But the bible also says you should die for working on the sabbath. Do you think i should die for working on the sabbath. If not, why? If what the bible says is right why should i not be put to death.



Oh please, If the 'Old Testement" and 'New Testement" is the word of God, like CHRISTIANS AND JEWS belive then denying the word of God would also be a sin. the 10 Comandments is also "old testement" by Christians preach that not its going out of style. The base religous law is the same for that of Jews and Christians. The old testement is christian scriptrue.

   

What if we defined marriage as the union between a man taller than 6' and a woman shorter than 5'6"? I would could call myself married, but many of my friends couldn't. Since this definition would be used by our government to determine spousal benefits and responsibilities, we would be discriminating against couples who don't meet this criteria.

By determining marriage to be between one man and one woman, we are, as a society, EXCLUDING homosexuals on the basis of sexual orientation. That is discrimination and it is discrimination that is enshrined in our laws.

You can define a religious marriage anyway you like, but if you want to have a legal definition, it has to be inclusionary, particularly when it is the basis for deciding if you can visit your spouse's hospital room, for example.

   

[/quote]You can define a religious marriage anyway you like, but if you want to have a legal definition, it has to be inclusionary, particularly when it is the basis for deciding if you can visit your spouse's hospital room, for example.[quote]

I totaly agree. Why does the word marriage only apply for religous union. The word marriage has evolved over time, so had a lot of things (rights of woman). Just becasue somthing is tradition doesnt mean its good. Slavery was tradition, not good.

   

There is also a not so fine line between tolerance and equality. And tolerance, in our society, isn't good enough for me.

Please, show me passages in the New Testament that say that consensual homosexuality is wrong.

   

Jews do not believe the New Testement is the word of God. Christians believe that well the Old Testement is the word of God it was updated by Christ ie, the New Testement. However some of the Old Testement was kept ie the 10 Commandments. Not to bad a set of rules really. Almost every religion has their version of them. You might want to do a little reaserch into the early Christian movement ie. withen 200 years of Jesus.



In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.Romans Ch.1 V21 NIV

Haven't you read," he [Jesus] replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh?So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
Matthew Ch.19 V4-6 NIV this same passage appears in Marks Gospel as well.

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians Ch6 V9-10 NIV

   

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