Ali's Islam Thread
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novachick @ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:06 pm
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
novachick novachick:
Were they ordered to do so, or in your mind are they just killing them for sport. Did the innocent woman or child have a gun perhaps? Was the child strapped down with a bomb?
Yeah, because that's a rational interpretation of "innocent".I'm done with you, forget about it.
No that is a rational interpretation of REALITY in the middle east. One you don't often hear on the 5pm news.
novachick @ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:18 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
novachick novachick:
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
novachick novachick:
You mean kind of like you are baiting me here, because i don't accept the Kuran or his views on the loss of soldiers 
I don't accept either of those either, and I didn't ask you to. I'm pointing out that his ignorant dismissal of the severity of certain deaths compared to others is no worse than yours.I don't dismiss their deaths if they are truly innocent. I don't give our soldiers orders, they don't give themselves orders, I don't Monday morning quarterback a situation I'm not in and leave my soldiers high and dry. I support my men and women in the field of battle. If you don't like what is going on in Iraq take it out on the powers that be. Don't take it out on the men and women that are duty bound to serve. I want them to live and I again don't apologize for that.
I believe those men and women have the right to say no to a unjustified War. If they cannot do that then how can anyone rely on them for security and stability from evil since they don't question evil itself. I understand the ranks and how its not really their fault (it was only an order) but what you have to understand is that they are the ones making the choice in the end to pull that trigger. They are also aware of the fact that going into this country can have horrific consequences for them and the people living there. In the end, what I am trying to say is that these wars are more of a personal issue to each and every one of us and we should take a break from our tv watching time and think about what our politicians are doing to these great nations.
Canada has set an example for the world in history with its peace keeping missions that were only for peace and not for some "top secret" strategy to benefit our own country. I was proud of our Men and Women when they lost their lives during those missions since they were for the good of humanity as a whole, not just for the people that live within these borders. Now, I am embarrassed, because there was a time when Americans use to wear our flags when they left their country so they wouldn't be targeted, now Canadians will probably have to change their nationality as soon as they leave this country just so they can be safe in other parts of the world. We brought this onto ourselves through our allies and it will hurt us in the end.
Our men and women are soldiers not peace keepers. I am always proud of my men and women, I feel their loss deeply, I feel the loss for the family's of those soldiers deeply. They pull the trigger because they must, don't make it a personal choice for them, they have a job they are trained to do and they do it.
BartSimpson @ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:23 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
Hey bart and anyone that asked a question before, I couldn't answer them in the other thread so can you please repost them so we can get that debate going.
Very fair of you.
BartSimpson @ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:25 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
lol so in other words, a trained hit man should be allowed to kill as long as hes not killing for personal reasons? or as long as hes getting orders from another authority? I mean, a hit man is doing his job as well.
So you're equating me to a hit man? Nice way to make friends and influence people. Hmph, and right after I said something nice about you, too.
novachick @ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:26 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
novachick novachick:
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
novachick novachick:
Were they ordered to do so, or in your mind are they just killing them for sport. Did the innocent woman or child have a gun perhaps? Was the child strapped down with a bomb?
Yeah, because that's a rational interpretation of "innocent".I'm done with you, forget about it.
No that is a rational interpretation of REALITY in the middle east. One you don't often hear on the 5pm news.
I hardly doubt that you are aware of the reality in the middle east since you are not from the middle east and you know little about it. I grew with Muslims all my life who belonged to different parts of the world and its better to hear it out of their mouth so I suggest you go speak to someone that lived in the middle east, I believe you will have a better understanding of the conditions there and why they are they way they are.
My reality didn't come from the 5pm news. It came from a Canadian soldier who was a part of a convoy,that watched a father throw his son on the road strapped with a bomb and blow him up. All to distract the convoy.
Brenda @ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:27 pm
novachick novachick:
Our men and women are soldiers not peace keepers.
That depends on the mission. Dutch men and women are mostly peacekeepers lately, thank God. Correct me if I'm wrong but since we are in Afghanistan on the same mission, Canadians must be peacekeepers as well.
BartSimpson @ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:27 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
Well first of all, the two planes hitting the twin towers was a horrible crime committed by whoever. You say as if, some Muslim came to you and said that he was part of 9/11. I think we need to take a break from what the media tells us and try to do more independent research about the matter.
Now lets see why these Muslims were cheering:
I think it might be something to do with Americans not leaving the middle east alone. When Israel attacks Lebanon, Americans give them weapons. When they attack Palestine, same shit. American army participated in the 6 Day war, if not with men then with equipment.
Excuse me, but during the Six Day War the Israelis attacked the USS Liberty murdering a number of her crew and the US came within a hairs breadth of nuking Tel Aviv. We were not exactly on their side anymore than the Russians were on Syria's side just because the Syrians were using Russian equipment.
Ali786 Ali786:
Americans have been in the middle east for almost all of our modern history.
True. We liberated the North African nations from Germany and then encouraged the European powers to liberate their North African colonies. Syria, which had allied with the USA & the UK against Iraq in WW2 was guaranteed its independence and when the French in December 1945 tried to reoccupy Syria the USA and UK interceded to prevent that from happening. The USA also sided with Egypt in the 1956 Suez War as that was simply the right thing to do. And US foreign aid to nations in the Middle East eclipses that of any other source.
Ali786 Ali786:
I think Japanese people were cheering too when Pearl Harbor was attacked but I dun see you hating on Buddism.
The Japanese are mostly Shinto and we don't hate them as we called things square after we immolated two of their cities and occupied their nation for six years.
Ali786 Ali786:
Actually, I pray to Allah that those American troops don't go into a unjustified war in the first place but if they choose to do so then I would prefer them dead then have 100s of civilians die. Soldiers make the choice to go to war knowing death hangs over their heads so why are you so choked up, if more then 3000 of them are dead? I don't see you standing up for 100 000s of civilians that have died in this bullshit war.
Most of those civilians have been killed by warring islamic factions and by atrocities such as this past week's vicious attacks on the Yazidi who have absolutely nothing to do with the general war and are being attacked just because muslims hate them and want them dead.
novachick @ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:29 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
novachick novachick:
Our men and women are soldiers not peace keepers. I am always proud of my men and women, I feel their loss deeply, I feel the loss for the family's of those soldiers deeply. They pull the trigger because they must, don't make it a personal choice for them, they have a job they are trained to do and they do it.
lol so in other words, a trained hit man should be allowed to kill as long as hes not killing for personal reasons? or as long as hes getting orders from another authority? I mean, a hit man is doing his job as well.
If you see our military as hit men, you and I have nothing to discuss.
Brenda @ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:31 pm
novachick novachick:
Ali786 Ali786:
novachick novachick:
Our men and women are soldiers not peace keepers. I am always proud of my men and women, I feel their loss deeply, I feel the loss for the family's of those soldiers deeply. They pull the trigger because they must, don't make it a personal choice for them, they have a job they are trained to do and they do it.
lol so in other words, a trained hit man should be allowed to kill as long as hes not killing for personal reasons? or as long as hes getting orders from another authority? I mean, a hit man is doing his job as well.
If you see our military as hit men, you and I have nothing to discuss.
I think you are missing the point...
novachick @ Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:32 pm
Brenda Brenda:
novachick novachick:
Our men and women are soldiers not peace keepers.
That depends on the mission. Dutch men and women are mostly peacekeepers lately, thank God. Correct me if I'm wrong but since we are in Afghanistan on the same mission, Canadians must be peacekeepers as well.
Peace keeping mission. We have Canadian soldiers on a peace keeping mission.
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