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Many people who believe in evolution also believe in God. Perhaps evolution was merely God's plan. The 7 days of creation were not 7 earthly days.

   

Evolution has too many holes in it. Are we still evolving? No. Where is the bones, bodily remains of the last former horse? Former fish? The Missing Link between the ape and Man? There is no such thing.

   

That's because the millions/billions of birds who were born with poorer wings died off before they passed on their genes. Today you're getting a well-needed lesson in natural selection and evolution:

Suppose there is a theoretically "perfect" bird wing - it is the most efficient it can possibly be.

You would agree that no birds in existance today can be considered perfect - they have the potential to be lighter, less fragile, require less effort to function, etc. We can therefore say that a given bird's wing has some percentage of the perfection of the ideal wing. We can also reasonably say that half a wing (50% perfect) is better than no wing at all.

Now suppose there are 1000 seagulls that were born with a 79% perfect wing, and 1000 seagulls that happened to be born with a 81% perfect wing. That gives a 2% advantage for that second group of seagulls over the others. If faced with the need to fly away from an enemy, or swoop down and catch food, they have 2% better odds of doing so successfully based only on having better genes.

Therefore, since it's a struggle of the fittest in the natural world, those slightly better seagulls are going to be more likely to survive to lay eggs and have genetically superior seagull babies - that's NATURAL SELECTION.

The process repeats again, only this time the 'perfection' is slightly higher, since they started with better genes.

This occurs much more slowly than described, but over hundreds of thousands of years, the better winged birds are going to be more successful than the genetically deficient birds - that's EVOLUTION.

If today, a "retard seagull" was born that had its wings on upside-down, it would die quickly - that's why you see most birds having that aerofoil-shaped wing.

Compared to the hundreds of thousands of years it took birds to "figure it out", I think we're doing pretty well.

   

Only because you're being irrational.


That evolution happened - simple animals progressed into complex ones - is not a concept that is disputed by any credible scientists. The PROCESSES by which it occured are the theoretical concepts.

Similarly, that gravity occurs is fact - how it occurs is theory.

   

Here's a thought: if there's real scientific proof that the earth is actually less than 10,000 years old, why is it only Christians that believe it? Of all the old science that is discredited daily based on new discoveries, why don't the findings of Christian Scientists make any waves whatsoever? Does Christian Science have some information of these things that no other establishment has been able to discover or verify?

Find one scientist that believes the earth is less than 10,000 years old that isn't a Christian Fundamentalist.

   

We're not still evolving? You know this because.......you're phsycic? or is that phsycotic.


No remains of "last horse" eh.....Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....sorry.....you lose..... should have picked a different one.



No link between ape and man...well..... you got that one partially right any ways....... There has been no direct link between ape and man on the evolutionary chain. That lil bit of info needs to be taken on faith. What we do have though...is...... common DNA and DNA types between ape and man showing a very close relationship. From this, one can correlate.....deduce.........that ape and man are closely related.

   

By the "missing link" argument, if I said I was going to the store to pick up some milk and a creationist saw me leave and come back with said milk, he would still deny the existance of the milk since I didn't state which store I went to, or which road I took to get there.

   

We call this evolution-theism.



I know what you mean, some people advance that the six first days of the creation have a different clock (do not have a lenght of 24 hours, i-e could be some billion years long).

http://www.lamed.fr/societe/science/647.asp

But evoltion-theism is not biblically right.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Francai ... ticle1.asp

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Francai ... ticle4.asp

Actually it's just a mish-mash of Judeo-Christian faith and evolutionist "scientific" brainwashing.

Blue_Nose, your explanation is in no way an explanation to the question I asked.

Natural selection ?! Natural selection does not explain how animals (or any form of life) came up with a way to fly, and worst, it does not explain how this way to fly uses some laws of phisics that no animal could know -- enven unconciously -- before having developed the way to use the laws of phisics in question.

Try harder, because I asked this question 5 pages ago and no evolutionist came up with an answer. Perhaps you have no answer ?

   

Man did not evolve from apes. We shared a common ancestor approximately 12 million years ago. Humans, gorillas, chimps and orangs have all followed their own seperate evolutionary paths from that common ancestor.

   

Brainwashing? Do we have a conspiracy theorist in our midst?

That would assume a motive that would cause virtually the entire scientific community to promote evolution and a 6 billion year old earth over Christian young-earth creation other than the fact that it's more logical and scientifically sound.

- Explain the motives of all the geologists that have concluded the earth is billions of years old through dozens of seperate methods.

- Explain the motives of Darwin, originally a devout Christian, who simply couldn't deny the world around him as he explored it and subsequently lost his faith.

- Explain the motives behind thousands of studies that point to evolution, all seperate, and many undoubtedly carried out by Christians.

- Explain the motives of Christians, like Shep here, who are comfortable with evolution and are still able to maintain a sensible level of faith, inline with the rest of the world.

We all know the motives behind Christian science, as they're abundantly clear, but what motive could possibly bind the rest of the entire world against Christians so clearly and unabashedly?

It's not my responses that are inadequate, it's your shoddy understanding of evolution. You've got multitudes of resources available to you which can describe in mundane detail the processes you're (poorly) describing, yet you sit there and wait for someone to pound it into your skull. You're comfortable in your ignorance, I guess.

Birds did not "know" how to fly and magically grow wings. There was no bird convention at which they decided that flying was the new way of the future, and started working on growing wings.

As I already stated, birds have the developed wing shape you see today because all the other birds - billions/trillions of them throughout history - that had some other less perfect wing shape DIED because they were at a disadvantage. "Survival of the fittest" is another way of expressing Natural Selection, and all the birds who happened to be born with slightly better wings than their peers were better off in life.

That's how we developed eyes that can focus, fingers that can bend, an inner ear that can keep us balanced, and all the other things that would put us at an advantage over the others that weren't born with those things.

The fact that you're incapable of comprending a fairly simple concept after 5 pages says more about you than any of us

   

Yes, we know that. In fact, it says in the Bible that a Day to God is a millenia to us.

Either way, that is still waaaaaay too short a time for the earth. 6000 years = bullshit.

   

I was told one time by a serious creationist that all the facts used by evolutionists(fossils, etc) were in fact seeded by God as a way to test our faith?

   

In that case, God is a scheming prick... what's he trying to prove?

I posted a video once in which an atheist suggested that the evidence of evolution, etc, was in fact a test, but the people who were smart enough to logically figure out the test would get into heaven, while the rest who were thoughtlessly following the Bible weren't allowed in.

Really, if he's going to test us at all, is it going to be on how smart and intelligent we are, or how mindlessly sheep-like we are?

   

OK, so this is the new (err... SAME OLD) explanation. Man, that does not explain the intelligently-desinged shape of the wing.

Your are saying than this :



Or even this :



Is supposed to give this :



Riiiiiiiiiight.

Natural selection does not explain how the shape of the wing, which is pre-desingned to make the bird fly.

There is no way the soon-to-be birds could know the law of phisics that would permit them to fly -- you say it yourself -- so there is no way the soon-to-be birds could come up with a body structure that would let their next-in-the-chain-of-evolution make this body structure a wing.

Yes, I am over-simplyfying, that does not mean I don't understand evolution.

So how did it happen ? By *chance* ? I have already expressed myself on this exit answer.



Hum... I herd that two, but I'd say no, because the fossils simply don't play in favor of the evolutionists.

If you understand French, I invite you to watch the third part of this documentary, its about fossils (from dinosaurs to cave men).

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmvpf_ ... rwinisme-1

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmw4o_ ... rwinisme-2

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmz7e_ ... rwinisme-3

(Yep, it was made by a Muslim, that's because Muhamad simply recopied the history of the creation in the Koran, with a few changes like the age of the earth.)

   

Durandal, I see you declined the opportunity to back up your claims of "evolutionist brainwashing".

You're calling it intelligently designed only because you're looking at it today and seeing it work the way it has always worked. If wings didn't function the way they were supposed to, they wouldn't be a characteristic passed on through generations.

First of all, you don't understand evolution, because you're still assuming that wings were something "soon-to-be birds" knew something about, or tried to develop.

Evolution does not occur by chance - again, another display of ignorance concerning the concepts you claim to understand. The genetic mutations that cause variation within a species are, to my knowledge, random. The fact that these mutations give some organisms an advantage over others, which allows them to pass their genes on through reproduction, is not random at all (Natural Selection). That these changes slowly cause an animal to adapt to an environment over time is also not random at all (evolution).

Don't pretend to understand things you obviously have trouble comprehending after, what is it, six pages now?

I won't hold my breath, though - you may have noticed that wings are not a huge issue for anyone actually in their scientific field, so the fact that you can't understand how it happened doesn't make it any less plausible. You might as well argue that you don't understand the mechanics that allow a bridge to stand up, so it must be held up by God.

   

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