The Cult of Happiness
BartSimpson @ Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:17 am
Chesterton had some fine thoughts on faith and religion (with a couple of my favorites in bold) :
G.K. Chesterton G.K. Chesterton:
"One of the chief uses of religion is that it makes us remember our coming from darkness, the simple fact that we are created." - The Boston Sunday Post, 1/16/21
"The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because they are generally the same people." - ILN, 7/16/10
"If there were no God, there would be no atheists." - Where All Roads Lead, 1922
"There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing love for all religions." - ILN, 1/13/06
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." - Chapter 5, What's Wrong With The World, 1910
"The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man." - Introduction to the Book of Job, 1907
"It has been often said, very truely, that religion is the thing that makes the ordinary man feel extraordinary; it is an equally important truth that religion is the thing that makes the extraordinary man feel ordinary." - Charles Dickens
"Theology is only thought applied to religion." - The New Jerusalem
"The truth is, of course, that the curtness of the Ten Commandments is an evidence, not of the gloom and narrowness of a religion, but, on the contrary, of its liberality and humanity. It is shorter to state the things forbidden than the things permitted: precisely because most things are permitted, and only a few things are forbidden." - ILN 1-3-20
"These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." - ILN 8-11-28
"Puritanism was an honourable mood; it was a noble fad. In other words, it was a highly creditable mistake." - Blake
"The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because they are generally the same people." - ILN, 7/16/10
"If there were no God, there would be no atheists." - Where All Roads Lead, 1922
"There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing love for all religions." - ILN, 1/13/06
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." - Chapter 5, What's Wrong With The World, 1910
"The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man." - Introduction to the Book of Job, 1907
"It has been often said, very truely, that religion is the thing that makes the ordinary man feel extraordinary; it is an equally important truth that religion is the thing that makes the extraordinary man feel ordinary." - Charles Dickens
"Theology is only thought applied to religion." - The New Jerusalem
"The truth is, of course, that the curtness of the Ten Commandments is an evidence, not of the gloom and narrowness of a religion, but, on the contrary, of its liberality and humanity. It is shorter to state the things forbidden than the things permitted: precisely because most things are permitted, and only a few things are forbidden." - ILN 1-3-20
"These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." - ILN 8-11-28
"Puritanism was an honourable mood; it was a noble fad. In other words, it was a highly creditable mistake." - Blake
DerbyX @ Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:20 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Chesterton had some fine thoughts on faith and religion (with a couple of my favorites in bold) :
G.K. Chesterton G.K. Chesterton:
"One of the chief uses of religion is that it makes us remember our coming from darkness, the simple fact that we are created." - The Boston Sunday Post, 1/16/21
"The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because they are generally the same people." - ILN, 7/16/10
"If there were no God, there would be no atheists." - Where All Roads Lead, 1922
"There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing love for all religions." - ILN, 1/13/06
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." - Chapter 5, What's Wrong With The World, 1910
"The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man." - Introduction to the Book of Job, 1907
"It has been often said, very truely, that religion is the thing that makes the ordinary man feel extraordinary; it is an equally important truth that religion is the thing that makes the extraordinary man feel ordinary." - Charles Dickens
"Theology is only thought applied to religion." - The New Jerusalem
"The truth is, of course, that the curtness of the Ten Commandments is an evidence, not of the gloom and narrowness of a religion, but, on the contrary, of its liberality and humanity. It is shorter to state the things forbidden than the things permitted: precisely because most things are permitted, and only a few things are forbidden." - ILN 1-3-20
"These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." - ILN 8-11-28
"Puritanism was an honourable mood; it was a noble fad. In other words, it was a highly creditable mistake." - Blake
"The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because they are generally the same people." - ILN, 7/16/10
"If there were no God, there would be no atheists." - Where All Roads Lead, 1922
"There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing love for all religions." - ILN, 1/13/06
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." - Chapter 5, What's Wrong With The World, 1910
"The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man." - Introduction to the Book of Job, 1907
"It has been often said, very truely, that religion is the thing that makes the ordinary man feel extraordinary; it is an equally important truth that religion is the thing that makes the extraordinary man feel ordinary." - Charles Dickens
"Theology is only thought applied to religion." - The New Jerusalem
"The truth is, of course, that the curtness of the Ten Commandments is an evidence, not of the gloom and narrowness of a religion, but, on the contrary, of its liberality and humanity. It is shorter to state the things forbidden than the things permitted: precisely because most things are permitted, and only a few things are forbidden." - ILN 1-3-20
"These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." - ILN 8-11-28
"Puritanism was an honourable mood; it was a noble fad. In other words, it was a highly creditable mistake." - Blake
Just the same old religious nonsense. If it works for you so be it. Just don't expect it to work for us.
Blue_Nose @ Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:20 am
I think the best advice is to not worry at all about being happy - I always am surprised when people ask if I'm happy, because it never really crosses my mind.
Trying to establish if I'm content at any particular instance seems ridiculous to me - if someone is "happy" 364 days of the year except one day which is the worst day of their life and they're suicidally depressed, does that make them a "happy person" or not? Will it matter if they're that depressed?
grainfedprairieboy @ Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:28 am
DerbyX DerbyX:
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
This isn't about religion, BN brought up that position to try to flame too. I've stated repeatedly that I envy those who've found a peace and tranquility that the vast majority of us will never find. But again, they are in the minority and the same argument could be made about Vancouver drug users. Also again for your benefit, this is not aboot religion but rather the failure of the quest of our society as a whole in the pursuit of happiness. Now I suppose you could effectively debate from a position that soceity is only unhappy because we have abandoned religion or don't consume enough drugs but then that would imply that you could actually debate and we all know that would be a fantastic stretch.
You haven't found peace and tranquility? What about happiness. You own your own buisness, have a loving wife and children and you live in a province that matches your political views fairly closely.
It seems you have what most people consider a very good life so happiness shouldn't be an elusive commodity.
Gotta disagree with you that society is unhappy because it has abandoned religion or doesn't consume enough drugs. Belief alone doesn't bring happiness but it may be associated with getting the things that do. Think Blue_Nose is unhappy? Wullu? Ziggy? Lots of us without religion manage to be perfectly happy with our lives.
"happiness isn't having what you want but wanting what you have" -- Sheryl Crow.
I myself am neither happy nor unhappy but just 'am' like the vast majority of people. My concern stems from the cult of happiness that has infiltrated our society and in my opinion makes people feel worse when their lives don't live up to the expectation of perpetual bliss. So many people end their marriages citing a failure to find happiness as just one example, and many people move from job to job looking for a mythical satisfaction as another.
DerbyX @ Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:34 am
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
DerbyX DerbyX:
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
This isn't about religion, BN brought up that position to try to flame too. I've stated repeatedly that I envy those who've found a peace and tranquility that the vast majority of us will never find. But again, they are in the minority and the same argument could be made about Vancouver drug users. Also again for your benefit, this is not aboot religion but rather the failure of the quest of our society as a whole in the pursuit of happiness. Now I suppose you could effectively debate from a position that soceity is only unhappy because we have abandoned religion or don't consume enough drugs but then that would imply that you could actually debate and we all know that would be a fantastic stretch.
You haven't found peace and tranquility? What about happiness. You own your own buisness, have a loving wife and children and you live in a province that matches your political views fairly closely.
It seems you have what most people consider a very good life so happiness shouldn't be an elusive commodity.
Gotta disagree with you that society is unhappy because it has abandoned religion or doesn't consume enough drugs. Belief alone doesn't bring happiness but it may be associated with getting the things that do. Think Blue_Nose is unhappy? Wullu? Ziggy? Lots of us without religion manage to be perfectly happy with our lives.
"happiness isn't having what you want but wanting what you have" -- Sheryl Crow.
I myself am neither happy nor unhappy but just 'am' like the vast majority of people. My concern stems from the cult of happiness that has infiltrated our society and in my opinion makes people feel worse when their lives don't live up to the expectation of perpetual bliss. So many people end their marriages citing a failure to find happiness as just one example, and many people move from job to job looking for a mythical satisfaction as another.
Not that I'm trying to be argumentative but do you have any evidence? I'm not sure that people are trying to live up to an expectation of perpetual bliss. Who preaches that people should be trying to find perfection? From what I've seen there has been a large shift from the consumerism of the 80's to people realizing that the amount of money needed to be happy is far less then we used to think.
I don't think that people are less happier then they were a generation ago.
BartSimpson @ Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:35 am
Myself, I am content.
This doesn't mean that I'm always happy as I am not. Things happen and I am content that they will resolve themselves in a suitable fashion.
Tonight I will go home, have dinner with the Mrs. and then go for a walk in a cool summer breeze.
That, I think, will be happiness.
On the trip home I will be content in the anticipation of a pleasant evening.
BartSimpson @ Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:09 am
IceOwl IceOwl:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
On the subject of happiness a wise man once wrote...
And for Derby he wrote:
G.K. Chesterton G.K. Chesterton:
What embitters the world is not excess of criticism, but an absence of self-criticism.
And for Derby he wrote:
G.K. Chesterton G.K. Chesterton:
Once abolish the God, and the government becomes the God.
Neither of these quotes seem to be about happiness?
I'm surprised that you haven't read Chesterton - while he was a highly intellectual Christian he was also extremely progressive (as in socialist) in his economics. He eschewed Marxism, but many of his ideas I would believe you'd be quite comfortable with.
$1:
"Big Business and State Socialism are very much alike, especially Big Business." - G.K.'s Weekly, 4/10/26
"[No society can survive the socialist] fallacy that there is an absolutely unlimited number of inspired officials and an absolutely unlimited amount of money to pay them." - The Debate with Bertrand Russell, BBC Magazine, 11/27/35
"A citizen can hardly distinguish between a tax and a fine, except that the fine is generally much lighter." - ILN, 5/25/31
"Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few capitalists." - The Uses of Diversity, 1921
"Price is a crazy and incalculable thing, while Value is an intrinsic and indestructible thing." - Reflections on a Rotten Apple, The Well and the Shallows, 1935
"Business, especially big business, is now organized like an army. It is, as some would say, a sort of mild militarism without bloodshed; as I say, a militarism without the military virtues." - The Thing
"All but the hard hearted man must be torn with pity for this pathetic dilemma of the rich man, who has to keep the poor man just stout enough to do the work and just thin enough to have to do it." - Utopia of Usurers, 1917
"From the standpoint of any sane person, the present problem of capitalist concentration is not only a question of law, but of criminal law, not to mention criminal lunacy." - "A Case In Point," The Outline of Sanity
"Because a girl should have long hair, she should have clean hair; because she should have clean hair, she should not have an unclean home; because she should not have an unclean home, she should have a free and leisured mother; because she should have a free mother, she should not have an usurious landlord; because there should not be a usurious landlord, there should be a redistribution of property; because there should be a redistribution of property, there shall be a revolution." - What's Wrong with the World
"There is only one thing that stands in our midst, attenuated and threatened, but enthroned in some power like a ghost of the Middle Ages: the Trade Unions." - A Short History of England
"[Capitalism is] that commercial system in which supply immediately answers to demand, and in which everybody seems to be thoroughly dissatisfied and unable to get anything he wants." - "How to Write a Detective Story." The Spice of Life
"Our society is so abnormal that the normal man never dreams of having the normal occupation of looking after his own property. When he chooses a trade, he chooses one of the ten thousand trades that involve looking after other people's property." - Commonwealth10-12-32
"The real argument against aristocracy is that it always means the rule of the ignorant. For the most dangerous of all forms of ignorance is ignorance of work." - NY Sun 11-3-18
"Making the landlord and the tenant the same person has certain advantages, as that the tenant pays no rent, while the landlord does a little work." - "Hudge and Gudge," What's Wrong with the World
"You can't have the family farm without the family." - Tales of the Long Bow
"I would give a woman not more rights, but more privileges. Instead of sending her to seek such freedom as notoriously prevails in banks and factories, I would design specially a house in which she can be free." - What's Wrong World
"[No society can survive the socialist] fallacy that there is an absolutely unlimited number of inspired officials and an absolutely unlimited amount of money to pay them." - The Debate with Bertrand Russell, BBC Magazine, 11/27/35
"A citizen can hardly distinguish between a tax and a fine, except that the fine is generally much lighter." - ILN, 5/25/31
"Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few capitalists." - The Uses of Diversity, 1921
"Price is a crazy and incalculable thing, while Value is an intrinsic and indestructible thing." - Reflections on a Rotten Apple, The Well and the Shallows, 1935
"Business, especially big business, is now organized like an army. It is, as some would say, a sort of mild militarism without bloodshed; as I say, a militarism without the military virtues." - The Thing
"All but the hard hearted man must be torn with pity for this pathetic dilemma of the rich man, who has to keep the poor man just stout enough to do the work and just thin enough to have to do it." - Utopia of Usurers, 1917
"From the standpoint of any sane person, the present problem of capitalist concentration is not only a question of law, but of criminal law, not to mention criminal lunacy." - "A Case In Point," The Outline of Sanity
"Because a girl should have long hair, she should have clean hair; because she should have clean hair, she should not have an unclean home; because she should not have an unclean home, she should have a free and leisured mother; because she should have a free mother, she should not have an usurious landlord; because there should not be a usurious landlord, there should be a redistribution of property; because there should be a redistribution of property, there shall be a revolution." - What's Wrong with the World
"There is only one thing that stands in our midst, attenuated and threatened, but enthroned in some power like a ghost of the Middle Ages: the Trade Unions." - A Short History of England
"[Capitalism is] that commercial system in which supply immediately answers to demand, and in which everybody seems to be thoroughly dissatisfied and unable to get anything he wants." - "How to Write a Detective Story." The Spice of Life
"Our society is so abnormal that the normal man never dreams of having the normal occupation of looking after his own property. When he chooses a trade, he chooses one of the ten thousand trades that involve looking after other people's property." - Commonwealth10-12-32
"The real argument against aristocracy is that it always means the rule of the ignorant. For the most dangerous of all forms of ignorance is ignorance of work." - NY Sun 11-3-18
"Making the landlord and the tenant the same person has certain advantages, as that the tenant pays no rent, while the landlord does a little work." - "Hudge and Gudge," What's Wrong with the World
"You can't have the family farm without the family." - Tales of the Long Bow
"I would give a woman not more rights, but more privileges. Instead of sending her to seek such freedom as notoriously prevails in banks and factories, I would design specially a house in which she can be free." - What's Wrong World
grainfedprairieboy @ Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:11 am
lily lily:
What makes YOU happy, IceOwl?
Barebacking, 9/11, dead NATO soldiers?
grainfedprairieboy @ Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:18 am
IceOwl IceOwl:
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
IceOwl IceOwl:
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
fatbasturd fatbasturd:
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
Says the guy who wrote this:
Kinda goes against everything his article suggests, eh?
also, "Affirmation Girl"
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
I personally envy all those of any religious faith who have experienced the bliss, security and peace that comes from knowing your God(s), your purpose and your future.
Kinda goes against everything his article suggests, eh?
also, "Affirmation Girl"
Not at all.
Everybody is dutifully looking for happiness as our secular society demands and permeates from pop culture to the education system. As you've ironically pointed out, those who seem happiest are the ones who've found God and personal salvation/redemption.
I can see how you would draw that conclusion when Blue Nose is involved in the debate.
But I want to point out this is not about religion but rather the failure of society to be as happy as it 's so desparetly tried to attain.
Why?
Really? It's not about religion? Let's look again:
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
Everybody is dutifully looking for happiness as our secular society demands and permeates from pop culture to the education system. As you've ironically pointed out, those who seem happiest are the ones who've found God and personal salvation/redemption.
Hmm. Try again.
Is everything a flame thread for you?
I haven't flamed anything. I'm sorry you're pissed off that I've pointed out your lies, but it would really help if you just didn't lie in the first place.
$1:
This isn't about religion,
But it is. See this?
$1:
Everybody is dutifully looking for happiness as our secular society demands and permeates from pop culture to the education system. As you've ironically pointed out, those who seem happiest are the ones who've found God and personal salvation/redemption.
By bringing the word "secular" into it, you've made it a religious issue.
$1:
BN brought up that position to try to flame too.
If by "flame", you meant "disagree" or "put the mofo kibosh on your stupid lies", then you would be correct.
$1:
I've stated repeatedly that I envy those who've found a peace and tranquility that the vast majority of us will never find.
See, now you're lying through omission. This is what you said:
$1:
I personally envy all those of any religious faith who have experienced the bliss, security and peace that comes from knowing your God(s), your purpose and your future.
$1:
But again, they are in the minority and the same argument could be made about Vancouver drug users. Also again for your benefit, this is not aboot religion but rather the failure of the quest of our society as a whole in the pursuit of happiness.
But it is about religion, and it's plain as day that you're lying.
$1:
Now I suppose you could effectively debate from a position that soceity is only unhappy because we have abandoned religion or don't consume enough drugs but then that would imply that you could actually debate and we all know that would be a fantastic stretch.
And it's plain as day that you're lying because you present an argumentative fallacy and personal attacks to back yourself up.
Neither religion nor lack of religion have anything in particular with making people happy and that is not necessarily the intent of any particular religion either, but I suspect that when you say "religion" you're speaking about Sunday church-goers that are and always have been rather confused about exactly what they're going to church for other than tradition, and whose only concept of god is an old white man in the sky.
So how do you define happiness?
I'm embarrassed for you.
DerbyX @ Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:33 am
$1:
I don't think any money is required to be happy. It's all about what you do with your life and who you spend your time with. All money can do is buy possessions.
For some perhaps. I heard of several different studies that points to an earning around CDN$50000 to produce a living that people are happy with. Below that and money worries start to eclipse happiness from other areas.
Money can also buy a degree of security, stability, and the ability to pursue interests that cost money.
Its not the end all be all but it is important.
$1:
I think people are confused about their state of happiness. In the age of modern psychiatry, we've come up with all sorts of mood disorders and drugs to treat the so-called disorders, but there are other much healthier ways of dealing with those sorts of things that have unfortunately been labeled "hippie bullshit."
I can't disagree there. My lab tests for alot of those treatment drugs. Some, like Lithium, are doing what they are meant to do and others like Ritalin are being pushed like they were M&Ms.
grainfedprairieboy @ Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:58 am
DerbyX DerbyX:
My lab tests for alot of those treatment drugs. Some, like Lithium, are doing what they are meant to do and others like Ritalin are being pushed like they were M&Ms.
It's terrifying how dependent society is becoming on medications to help moderate moods and ostensibly in part, achieve the holy grail of happiness. I wonder how much, if any, drugs both legal and illegal, along with chemicals and pollutants could contribute.