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Ah, so you're surrendering,

just as I suspected. Out of ammo and rhetoric.

   

Donnie didn't I already use the out of ammo line? Oh well you didn't present any original thought in any of your posts here, you just threw the racist line out there. In fact if you were to read all the posts in this thread without knowing who wrote them, yours would be the only one that used racist language towards anyone!

You seem to have a very large chip on your shoulder and don't seem to want to hear any opinion that is different from yours. To me that is really sad because it shows what a narrow view of the world you have.

Lawndart great post. Proving that once again some left-wingers have only rhetoric and platitudes. It is actually quite amusing to see them actually get fired up about nothing!

   

Quote You seem to have a very large chip on your shoulder and don't seem to want to hear any opinion that is different from yours. To me that is really sad because it shows what a narrow view of the world you have. end Quote

Empty vessels make most noise.

Frank

   

Well, at least I backed up all my info with real stats and information.

I didn't see to many of your posts with supporting information besides you opinion.

If you want to be tuned in some more just ask me a question...

go ahead, I dare you.

   

To say the left is wrong all the time just doesnt fit. The word ALL encompasses to much. Its the same as saying the right is right all the time. Both sides make mistakes , and right or wrong is just one mans perspective on the situation. This topic is void.

   

Something I said 7 goddamn pages ago....

   

Comon, I was just starting to have fun....

   

That seems to be the way of the far left for whom enough is never enough. What should have happend regarding our non-illustrious Natives is a lump sum payment about 150 years ago. They would have gone through that amount in record time and then had to integrate themselves into society as the functioning and capable human beings we all know they are.

Rather, they chose and continue to choose to stay on the public teat. Even they are beginning to ask when they will discard the public purse and deal with their survial and welfare just as the rest of society does.

So how about hit Donny? Are you and yours ready to display the balls to go it alone, or will you continue to blame the white man for your own failings in life, society and history.

Not very impressive is it?

   

Well, the natives are an interesting study, because both the left and the right, over the last couple of hundred of years or so, have had their kick at the can at solving the "native problem." And yet, here we are, watching pictures of ten-year olds huffing gasoline. I don't think I've ever seen anything so sad and pathetic as that.

What to do? We threw millions at Davis Inlet, relocated the community, but the rot stuck. More reactionary (right-wing) types have just told the Indians "This is the way its going to be," given them a pot of money and done with them what they pleased. The end effect was the same.

It seems to me that we are witnessing a culture in its Dark Age. A Dark Age can be defined when ones culture is no longer passed on from generation to generation. There is no passing of the torch. Everything that nomadic Inuit hunters knew is now useless, replaced by snowmobiles, guns, O Henry bars, and liquor. All they can pass on is a few songs, a few a stories, a dance.

   

I don't blame the Jews, some of my best friends are Jewish.
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Geez Donnie, I could have sworn you said to Chopper that just because he has native friends, it does not mean he is a racist, you are a hypocrite, funny how every forum I read that you are in also, you are told the same thing over and over by everyone here, you are the racist and have a LARGE chip on your shoulder. SAD

   

Actually, I have no Jewish friends. It was meant to be ironic. Saskatoon must be too cold for Jewish folks.

   

quote="harrod"] What should have happend regarding our non-illustrious Natives is a lump sum payment about 150 years ago. [/quote]

I'm not sure how many negotiations you have ever been through in your life, but generally there are two sides who sit down and come to a mutually agreeable course of action and come to a deal. If you think the representatives of the Crown simply said to the Natives "This is what you’re going to get so shut up and sign" then you are wrong.

Our forefathers attempted to come up with a deal that would preserve our identity as First Nations and also be able to adapt to a changing world. Like two canoes paddling down the same river, both parties were to travel down the same river in separate yet equal boats.

Like the saying goes "The white man speaks with a forked tongue". And therefore, instead of treating Natives as equals to travel together on the river, the government treated our people as wards of the state. Instead of letting us adapt on our own terms, every part of our lives were controlled under the Indian Act (1876).

We tried to farm, but as we became good farmers the non-natives became nervous that we would impede on their markets. And because of the treaties we were guaranteed farm supplies to run our farms. The white folks didn’t like that.

Around the same time the government came up with the policy of assimilation. They were going to assimilate us into the white culture through education. This is when our children were taken to residential schools by the government. It was law that all kids would attend, and their parents had no say.

At these schools kids would be taught the western ways, English or French, foreign religions. They would generally attend these schools from age 6 to 14 or so. These schools were also breeding grounds for sexual predators, abuse and disease. At certain schools the mortality rates for these children was 50%. The Government of Canada ended this forced system of residential schools in 1970.

As a result of residential schools 100% of our Native population suffers. We have lost many generations of parenting skills, and this generation is the first to fully raise their own children. Many thousands of children, who are adults now suffer from post traumatic stress disorder from the sexual, physical and psychological abuse they suffered at residential school.

I know will scoff at this notion, but think of your 7 or 8 year old son or daughter being sexually brutalized or beaten (buy nuns and priests none the less) and you may get some understanding of how the victims and the families of the victims feel.

In my generation, and I am 32, many of my friends have been through residential school. The mother of my children went to residential school. The last school was closed in 1997, eight years ago. Although after 1970 residential school was a choice, many parents had no other option to educate their children. Also note, that there were many positive experiences in residential school. However, the legacy of abuse from these schools is a permanent scar on our people and the Canadian government.

I'm not sure what you mean by "public teat". It would be nice if hypocrites like you would wake up and see what is going on in Indian country today. We are starting our own businesses. Getting educated like never before and participating in the workforce in record numbers. Having viable economies on reserve means that people can provide for themselves, and that the community will not be so reliant on welfare and handouts.

The more we strive to fit in to your world (yet keep our identities as Aboriginal people) the more screaming and shouting we hear from the narrow minded people who are afraid of us competing for jobs with them. This is what started these problems in the first place.

Had we been able to participate in this economy for the last 150 years then this would not be an issue. But because our grandfathers were not allowed to start companies or trade their goods or get credit from banks we are behind by a century. Had my grandfather been a business man and taught his son to run the business that he could have passed on to his sons. Instead a more likely scenario was that grandfather was on welfare because he was not allowed to participate in the economy, he passed his welfare lifestyle to his sons and so on and so on (it is called the cycle of poverty).

And the grants that are available to us, the social mechanisms that are put in place so that our communities and people can catch up are there so that folks like you will quit crying about the Natives sitting on welfare.

So either you cry about us on welfare, or you cry about us getting special treatment. And even if we (like me) receive no welfare and have a full time job and pay taxes, we have to carry the ancient burdens of having you oppress us for being "Natives on the public teat" and live with the scars of having dysfunctional relationships within our families and communities (a result of the last 150 years of oppression).



Open your eyes, there are many, many successful Aboriginal people in this country. But just because we are successful and live up to your standards, don't expect us to let you off the hook for your treaty promises, and don't expect us to let you off the hook for what has been done to our people.

We will fit into Canada under our own terms, keeping our culture and our lands and our values. Granted society has produced many people who are beyond repair for many backgrounds, we will continue to look after these folks too, as these are our families and friends.

And we expect that the next generation of Canadians will be more able to travel in their equal yet separate ways.

   

If you only knew....

   

What is a "successful" native? One who has a high-paying job, a house and 2.5 kids? If so, then it seems you would support a policy of assimilation. If, on the other hand, you considered a "successful" native to be one who lived out on the land tending his trap lines, then it seems you would support a policy of separation.

Currently, First Nations governments want to be dealt with on a government-to-government basis. I agree. Given the complex legal scenario we find ourselves in, I think the courts have indicated a clear direction on aboriginal title. However, two things strike me as wrong with the current situation. First of all, one can only be a member of a band through genetics. Imagine if Canada said that only the progeny of Canadian parents could be Canadians.

Secondly, First Nations have to realize that just because the Canadian (and BC) governments recognize them as nations, that doesn't mean free access to senior levels of government, which seems to be the expectation right now. Many First Nations have a popultion of under a hundred. You can't expect Canada, with a population of some 30 million, to treat your nation the same way we would treat, say, the United States -- more like the way we would deal with Micronesia.

So allow bands to control their own memberships, and treat First Nations governemtsn ona antion-to-nation basis, realizing that they are pretty small nations.

   

Very good point.

How about both? Equal yet separate. Traditional yet modern.

I know there's a word for it, I just can't seem to think of it right now.

I enjoyed reading your comments Zipperfish, very enlightening.

   

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