Canada can do more, Israeli ambassador says

Written By: rearguard
Date: 2006-08-17 09:02:00
<a href="/article/170207440-canada-can-do-more-israeli-ambassador-says">Article Link</a>

Or perhaps a small Canadian army contingent could be found to help patrol the Syrian border, he added. Mr. Harper's office was initially non-committal. Communications director Sandra Buckler said the government will listen to any Israeli proposal, but the question has not yet come up in any formal talks. Mr. Baker also said he hopes to arrange a visit to Ottawa by Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni to thank Canada for its support. The Israeli diplomat said he was troubled by the fact that Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe attended a political demonstration in Montreal recently with supporters of Hezbollah, which is a banned terrorist group in Canada. <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060815.wcanada-mideast16/BNStory/Front">Rest of story here.</a> [Proofreader's note: this article was edited for spelling and typos on August 17, 2006]

Yes, we CAN do more. We should sell Lebanon some modern warships, and some LAV's, and some weapons. We should prop up the Lebanese military as much as possible, so that they can form the true military of Lebanon. They are using Hezbollah a s a paramilitary crutch. If they just stood up and demanded guns, which of course, the US would refuse to sell them, they would have a chance of stopping Israeli aggression in the future.

It's time for Lebanon to stand up and become a strong Middle Eastern nation. Canada should be doing everything to support this, not cowing to Israeli nonesense about setting up a mini blockade of the country.

---
“The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous, the essential act of warfare is the destruction of the produce of human labour”

I agree totally, but, do you not find it equally apalling that Syria and Iran are arming Hezbolla, not Lebanon?

---
"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

I'm not really sure of the motivation, I know that Syria got kicked out of Lebanon, so there are some sour grapes going on there, and Iran of course, would supply Satan himself if he were agreeing to fight Israel.

It would be really nice to see a strong independent Lebanon that could actually stand on it's own two feet, and not some Israeli or Syrian or Iranian puppet government, but a strong LEBANESE government, for the people, in the best interests of the country.

Hezbollah has the popular support of the people, because it is a grass roots resistance movement that also provides humanitarian and social assistance to the people (I'm sure the Viet Cong did the same thing in Vietnam).

Syria may be supporting Hezbollah to both back any unit willing to fire shots at Israel, but ALSO destabilize the Lebanese government.

A strong Lebanon would be able to resist pressure, from Syria, Iran, Hezbollah AND Israel.

The problem is, nobody except Syria and Iran will sell them weapons to get their military back on it's feet. So long as this is the case, they will be susceptible to those two countries influences and whims.

---
“The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous, the essential act of warfare is the destruction of the produce of human labour”

"do you not find it equally apalling that Syria and Iran are arming Hezbolla, not Lebanon?"

What I saw was amazing. Here is a country being bombed to smithereens by an invading force using a baseless excuse while the Lebanese government did NOTHING to defend its own nation. What I saw was Hezbollah standing up to the attack and successfully repelling the invading ground forces. If it were up to me, no I would NOT send anything to the official Lebanese government. I suspect that it has lost a great deal of Lebanese support due to its cowering.

I also saw Harper supporting the attacks despite the fact that many Canadians were put at harms way, and some in fact were killed including women and children and a UN observer - all innocent victims of a war crime.

I suspect that Harper has a sub 10% rating right about now here in Canada. He should be kicked out of the country and sent into exile in Israel.

So what happens if Syria and Iran do not support Hezbollah.

Israel runs roughshod over the entire region and dictates policy for everyone as always. Israel depends on others selling light weapons to countries like Lebanon so they can easily be cowed by the IDF. As long as the US supplies Israel with weapons it's ignorant to think that Hezbollah would not learn from palestine and arm accordingly. Iran has a right to suppy weapons to people for defense. Not only a right but an obligation to their Arab brothers. This deterant could possibly prevent such arrogant reprisals from Israel and get them on the diplomatic bandwagon.
The Lebanese government stood by and watched a foreign country bomb them into the stone age without lifting a finger. Remember that two guys got nabbed and started this atrocity. This was a simple crime. And the result is invasion.

Funny. We must have been watching different conflicts. I saw a rag-tag bunch of angry men, trying to blow up women and children because of something that happened centuries ago, and trying to piss off the bully across the street with the really big stick then pointing to his little brother who can't protect himself because no one will give him anything sharp when the bully comes over to kick his ass. And when the angry man is lying on the ground bleeding and his little brother's family is dead, he says 'Ha! I won!'

"If it were up to me, no I would NOT send anything to the official Lebanese government. I suspect that it has lost a great deal of Lebanese support due to its cowering."

Sounds excatally like those who say we should give Afghanistan back to the Taliban . .

But I agree about harper.

---
"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

You know Dr Caleb, standing up to a bully may make him respect you.

Dr Caleb wrote:

Funny. We must have been watching different conflicts. I saw a rag-tag bunch of angry men, trying to blow up women and children because of something that happened centuries ago, and trying to piss off the bully across the street with the really big stick then pointing to his little brother who can't protect himself because no one will give him anything sharp when the bully comes over to kick his ass. And when the angry man is lying on the ground bleeding and his little brother's family is dead, he says 'Ha! I won!'

-----------

No offense Caleb, but you are either blind or mysteriously misinformed. Israel was bluntly made into a country only approx 60 years ago - not centuries ago as you are suggesting. Hezbollah has been trying to kick Israel out of Lebanese territory ever since 1985, after departing Israel troops decided to remain in Lebanon and occupy a so-called "security-zone" inside Lebanese territory - and that's what this on-going war is all about from Lebanons POV.

What I saw, and I expect most of us saw, were Israeli pilots flying US made war planes blowing up Lebanon's infrastructure indiscriminately - killing and maiming hundreds (if not thousands) of innocent civilians (the worse is yet to come now that much of the nations infrastructure has been destroyed). I saw no evidence of significant Hezbollah casualties, and by all accounts, Israel was forced to concede only because they could not penetrate deep into Lebanon without getting their asses kicked.

How can you agree with my assessment about Harper's support for Israel after making the above quoted statement?

Please do not confuse what you saw on the tv in North America with reality. Start with BBC field reporters in Beriut first. The BBC has done an amazing job providing a balanced perspective on the war.

This was NOT an attack on Hezbollah, this was an attack on Lebanon, it's infrastructure, and it's military. Military units of the Lebanese army WERE bombed.

The Lebanese prime minister was interviewed, he did go to the UN and demand an immediate cease-fire. The North American media tried to keep him off the air, or made sure he was NOT translated, but allowed to drone on in Lebanese while the anchor told us a quick summary of what he was saying instead (quickly cut to 10 minutes of some Israeli general going on and on about how evil Hezbollah is and how much the Israeli people are suffering, and how we have to treat Hezbollah as a cancer, blah blah blah cut it out blah blah).

Compare that to BBC media, who were dragging top Israeli diplomats on tv and demanding they explain why it is necessary to bomb the only working power plant in Gaza to stop the terrorists:

BBC: 'Can you please explain to us why it was necessary to bomb the only remaining power plant in Gaza, plunging thousands of people into the dark?'

Diplomat: 'Well, uh, you see, with the lights off, it's harder to move people around'

BBC: 'What? Your kidding, right? If the lights are off IT'S EASIER to move people around without being seen! Surely that's obvious!'

--or--

BBC: 'Can you explain to me how you came to bomb that apartment complex in Qana?'

Israeli cute short-haired female spokesperson IDF#7:

'We are deeply sorry for the suffering in Qana. We showed images of the Hezbollah rockets, that are raining down on us, they were coming from that location in Qana...'

BBC: (interrupts) 'But there are people on the ground in Qana, we have interviewed many people, who say that's not true. There were NO rockets coming from Qana.'

IDF#7: 'Again, we are deeply sorry, and we did not intend to hit the apartment building, we were targetting...'

BBC (interrupts) 'So you MISSED, with those precision-guided weapons you have been talking about the last two weeks, you MISSED and hit an apartment building full of people?'

IDF#7: 'We knew that rockets were coming from there, we were targetting Hezbollah rockets..'

BBC (interrupts again) 'Your trying to tell us that rockets were being fired OUT of that Apartment Building???'

In North America, the MSM was obeying Israel and playing this up as some sort of retaliation for a minor kidnapping on the border. If the Lebanese had then declared that they were going to war against Israel for bombing them, the Israelis would have had every excuse they needed to declare Lebanon a rogue state that supported terrorism. George would have paraded out one of his 'If your not fER us, Yer AGInST us, Pilgrim!' speeches, and everyone would have watched Lebanon become the next Iraq.

Lebanon played this smart, although the pain did reduce it's leader to tears on more than one occasion. He pulled most of his military out of harm's way to the North, and screamed for a diplomatic solution, while Israel turned Southern Lebanon into a pile of rubble, duking it out with Hezbollah.

Now the key is for him to rush his troops south, OVER the Litani river, while everyone thinks the war is over (and considering what a bloody nose Israel got, I'm not sure it is - they have major face-saving operations to finish first). Israel I'm sure wants to KEEP the Litani river, considering how short on fresh water they are and considering it was one of Ben Gurion's original Northern borders in his Greater Israel Manifesto.

But now the world has been led to believe that the war is over, and Israel cannot attack the Lebanese army any longer, and feign apologies that it was a mistake, sorry, was aiming for the milk factory, not the Lebanese army engineers barracks, so sorry. If the Lebanese move quickly and re-take the South bank of the Litani, Israel will have accomplished nothing, and you will start to see major players losing their jobs very soon.

---
“The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous, the essential act of warfare is the destruction of the produce of human labour”

Bullies respect no one, and you're still lying on the ground bleeding.

---
"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

Israel warns 'war is not over' 
Hezbollah won't give up its arms 
Lebanese troops begin move south 
Aug. 17, 2006. 08:28 AM 
TIM HARPER 
WASHINGTON BUREAU 
 
WASHINGTON - An already fragile ceasefire in the Middle East now appears in greater danger of unravelling, threatened by Hezbollah's refusal to disarm and Israeli charges that Iran and Syria are already rearming its enemy. 
 
<a href="http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1155765012274&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home">http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1155765012274&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home</a>--- “The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous, the essential act of warfare is the destruction of the produce of human labour”

Isreal may have been formed only a short time ago, but the secular and religious fighting has been going on much longer.

We did see different things, apparently. I saw for the most part, precision strikes by US made fighters and random attacks by Syrian made rockets. Google even has images before and after many of the strikes.

"I saw no evidence of significant Hezbollah casualties..."

Funny, I saw BBC reporters who weren't allowed to film Hezbolla casualties.

"and by all accounts, Israel was forced to concede only because they could not penetrate deep into Lebanon without getting their asses kicked."

And I saw an Isreal who had no fundemental problem with Lebanon or it's government, just the people firing rockets into it's territory.

"How can you agree with my assessment about Harper's support for Israel after making the above quoted statement?"

As I've said before - Evil and Evil Light(tm). Condoning ethier is wrong IMHO. I usually try to point out the Evil Light(tm) side of Isreal, as Hezbolla are no angels ethier. If both sides atrocities aren't highlighted, we do a disservice to the victims.

---
"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

These are all interesting comments, but most seem to pass by the question of who asked the Ambassador from Isreal to give instructions in Canada, or even advice. The other day he was demanding that our police take away the bad people some of whom were walking in a parade carrying signs and saying rude things he did not like in support of Hezbollah. Could there be an Ambassador from Lebanon saying the Canadian police should take away the bad people who were saying rude things about the Hezbollah? Here we have a country that has apparently committed war crimes, crimes against humanity, state ordered assassinations in the territory of other states, used munitions like cluster bombs, phosphorus, area bombing in residential areas in support of collective punishment. It has comitted the most outrageous aggression against a country wilth whom it is not at war (Lebanon). It has killed with gross negligence at the least, a Canadian (and others) UN observer acting under the protection of UN functions with the agreement of national states (the Lebanon-0Israeli border).

Why on earth would Canada accept the advice of any official of Israel as to what should be done about anything. Is their conduct some sort of guide to correct practice among states? Where they blame others for every problem they have, is that a reasonable measure of state responsibility? Do they have something to teach Canada about how to conduct civilzed discourse between states. "Canada can do more..." Well so can they instead of whipping up fresh attacks on their neighbours.

.

So I suppose the Lebanese should just accept their place as a lessor race. Wrong.
Dignity is more important to these people. You, living in Canada, have this dignity right now. Imagine if this peace we have right now is taken away. Would you not fight for your country even if your government did not? Would you stand by and let them kill your nieghbors and friends unchallenged. I don't think I would if I had the power to resist.