Canada needs a CCW and Stand Your Ground law
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sandorski @ Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:37 am
Xort Xort:
sandorski sandorski:
Interesting, I suppose we are both corrected.
Not to be a dick, but when you read the title of the chart 'Firearms Death Rate' you should go: Oh that includes non criminal deaths, like justified uses, and suicides.
Also their are more crimes than just murder, that should be used when looking at how criminaly dangerous a place is. With a low enough population like half a million you could get clusters that distort statitics. Also you need to acount for a small wide spread population, a crime that might just be an assault in a large city with fast emergancy medical treatment, might be a murder in a smaller less able location.
You can also run into problems with one time events, or unusual events. If two gangs had a gang war and killed 10 people in the state of Wyoming that would have a noticable change on the total rate. A 'gang war' that killed 10 in California would be swallowed up by the average and have no statisticly important meaning. If you looked at murder rates by cities, a town that had a single murder but a population of just 100 people would be off the charts, even if for the last 50 years they hadn't a single murder or serious assault.
More importantly in crime numbers are population density, if you took a the crime rate from one state and matched it against another but only cross compaired similar density areas you will find that they are highly similar. The many 'smaller' cities in California lower it's overall crime rate, while it's super dense cities raise it. The largest city in Wyoming is only 60,000. You can expect it to have a crime rate similar to a 60,000 person city in California.
The differanc between the gun death rate of Wyoming and California might just be the differance in suicide method. With people in California making a preferance for jumping off stuff or ODing, while the Wyoming suicidals do it with a gun.
Be sure to read into the subtext of a statistic when you are given it.
Sure, it could be any of those. There must be more specific Data available to discern if there are though.
bootlegga @ Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:06 am
MeganC MeganC:
Lots of states are like that too. You got to know some politician to get a gun permit. I am happy we live in Wyoming where you see people with guns on all the time and we're all just use to it. We don't have anywhere near the crime of California and I think some of it is because the criminals know it isn't easy for them to do stuff here.
Thanks for the heads up - I'll cross Wyoming off my "places to see" list!
andyt @ Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:16 am
OK,Casper, pop <60k, has a crime index of 11 meaning it's safer than 11% of US cities. Alameda, CA, pop>70k has an index of 25, so it's quite a bit safer. Just cherry picking of course, but Casper certainly does't look too good on the crime front.
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/wy/casper/crime/
The contention was that Wyoming has lots of guns but little crime. It only has little crime because it only has 500,000 residents. Per capita it's not doing that well.
pineywoodslim @ Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:14 pm
This guy was clearly a nut--even by American gun fetish standards--and it is unfortunate that he is a cop.
But here's my story about violence in the US:
I am a US citizen. In the late 90s, I moved from New Orleans where I'd lived for close to 30 years to the state of Iowa. New Orleans was, and is, an extremely violent city. In 1995, the city had approx. 435 murders out of a city population of 450,000. In other words, close to 1 out of 1000 citizens were murdered that year. I was a teacher in the public schools and each year I had 1 student murdered.
I dislike guns. I gave up hunting when I was 18 and have never owned a gun since with this exception: in 1996 I bought a handgun for fear of home invasions or burglary. I never had to use it thankfully, but it was there and did in fact give me peace of mind.
I now live in Iowa, a state were it a Canadian province, would be tied (as of 2009) as the 3rd lowest homicide rate in Canada--behind PEI and Newfoundland, and tied with Quebec (I was surprised at Quebec's low homicide rate). I sold my handgun when I moved here.
Most folks in Iowa own guns--but they are hunting rifles and shotguns and used to hunt small game and deer, and not other people.
So, not all the US is violent, but in those many parts that are, there just might be justifiable reasons for arming oneself.
Gunnair @ Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:16 pm
pineywoodslim pineywoodslim:
This guy was clearly a nut--even by American gun fetish standards--and it is unfortunate that he is a cop.
But here's my story about violence in the US:
I am a US citizen. In the late 90s, I moved from New Orleans where I'd lived for close to 30 years to the state of Iowa. New Orleans was, and is, an extremely violent city. In 1995, the city had approx. 435 murders out of a city population of 450,000. In other words, close to 1 out of 1000 citizens were murdered that year. I was a teacher in the public schools and each year I had 1 student murdered.
I dislike guns. I gave up hunting when I was 18 and have never owned a gun since with this exception: in 1996 I bought a handgun for fear of home invasions or burglary. I never had to use it thankfully, but it was there and did in fact give me peace of mind.
I now live in Iowa, a state were it a Canadian province, would be tied (as of 2009) as the 3rd lowest homicide rate in Canada--behind PEI and Newfoundland, and tied with Quebec (I was surprised at Quebec's low homicide rate). I sold my handgun when I moved here.
Most folks in Iowa own guns--but they are hunting rifles and shotguns and used to hunt small game and deer, and not other people.
So, not all the US is violent, but in those many parts that are, there just might be justifiable reasons for arming oneself.
But here's my story about violence in the US:
I am a US citizen. In the late 90s, I moved from New Orleans where I'd lived for close to 30 years to the state of Iowa. New Orleans was, and is, an extremely violent city. In 1995, the city had approx. 435 murders out of a city population of 450,000. In other words, close to 1 out of 1000 citizens were murdered that year. I was a teacher in the public schools and each year I had 1 student murdered.
I dislike guns. I gave up hunting when I was 18 and have never owned a gun since with this exception: in 1996 I bought a handgun for fear of home invasions or burglary. I never had to use it thankfully, but it was there and did in fact give me peace of mind.
I now live in Iowa, a state were it a Canadian province, would be tied (as of 2009) as the 3rd lowest homicide rate in Canada--behind PEI and Newfoundland, and tied with Quebec (I was surprised at Quebec's low homicide rate). I sold my handgun when I moved here.
Most folks in Iowa own guns--but they are hunting rifles and shotguns and used to hunt small game and deer, and not other people.
So, not all the US is violent, but in those many parts that are, there just might be justifiable reasons for arming oneself.
One more reason to keep my tourist dollars north of 49
pineywoodslim @ Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:23 pm
Gunnair Gunnair:
pineywoodslim pineywoodslim:
This guy was clearly a nut--even by American gun fetish standards--and it is unfortunate that he is a cop.
But here's my story about violence in the US:
I am a US citizen. In the late 90s, I moved from New Orleans where I'd lived for close to 30 years to the state of Iowa. New Orleans was, and is, an extremely violent city. In 1995, the city had approx. 435 murders out of a city population of 450,000. In other words, close to 1 out of 1000 citizens were murdered that year. I was a teacher in the public schools and each year I had 1 student murdered.
I dislike guns. I gave up hunting when I was 18 and have never owned a gun since with this exception: in 1996 I bought a handgun for fear of home invasions or burglary. I never had to use it thankfully, but it was there and did in fact give me peace of mind.
I now live in Iowa, a state were it a Canadian province, would be tied (as of 2009) as the 3rd lowest homicide rate in Canada--behind PEI and Newfoundland, and tied with Quebec (I was surprised at Quebec's low homicide rate). I sold my handgun when I moved here.
Most folks in Iowa own guns--but they are hunting rifles and shotguns and used to hunt small game and deer, and not other people.
So, not all the US is violent, but in those many parts that are, there just might be justifiable reasons for arming oneself.
But here's my story about violence in the US:
I am a US citizen. In the late 90s, I moved from New Orleans where I'd lived for close to 30 years to the state of Iowa. New Orleans was, and is, an extremely violent city. In 1995, the city had approx. 435 murders out of a city population of 450,000. In other words, close to 1 out of 1000 citizens were murdered that year. I was a teacher in the public schools and each year I had 1 student murdered.
I dislike guns. I gave up hunting when I was 18 and have never owned a gun since with this exception: in 1996 I bought a handgun for fear of home invasions or burglary. I never had to use it thankfully, but it was there and did in fact give me peace of mind.
I now live in Iowa, a state were it a Canadian province, would be tied (as of 2009) as the 3rd lowest homicide rate in Canada--behind PEI and Newfoundland, and tied with Quebec (I was surprised at Quebec's low homicide rate). I sold my handgun when I moved here.
Most folks in Iowa own guns--but they are hunting rifles and shotguns and used to hunt small game and deer, and not other people.
So, not all the US is violent, but in those many parts that are, there just might be justifiable reasons for arming oneself.
One more reason to keep my tourist dollars north of 49
But if you are visiting Iowa--and there is absolutely no reason to, trust me
--unless you live in PEI or Nfld, you would be safer here than in Canada!
Gunnair @ Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:28 pm
pineywoodslim pineywoodslim:
Gunnair Gunnair:
pineywoodslim pineywoodslim:
This guy was clearly a nut--even by American gun fetish standards--and it is unfortunate that he is a cop.
But here's my story about violence in the US:
I am a US citizen. In the late 90s, I moved from New Orleans where I'd lived for close to 30 years to the state of Iowa. New Orleans was, and is, an extremely violent city. In 1995, the city had approx. 435 murders out of a city population of 450,000. In other words, close to 1 out of 1000 citizens were murdered that year. I was a teacher in the public schools and each year I had 1 student murdered.
I dislike guns. I gave up hunting when I was 18 and have never owned a gun since with this exception: in 1996 I bought a handgun for fear of home invasions or burglary. I never had to use it thankfully, but it was there and did in fact give me peace of mind.
I now live in Iowa, a state were it a Canadian province, would be tied (as of 2009) as the 3rd lowest homicide rate in Canada--behind PEI and Newfoundland, and tied with Quebec (I was surprised at Quebec's low homicide rate). I sold my handgun when I moved here.
Most folks in Iowa own guns--but they are hunting rifles and shotguns and used to hunt small game and deer, and not other people.
So, not all the US is violent, but in those many parts that are, there just might be justifiable reasons for arming oneself.
But here's my story about violence in the US:
I am a US citizen. In the late 90s, I moved from New Orleans where I'd lived for close to 30 years to the state of Iowa. New Orleans was, and is, an extremely violent city. In 1995, the city had approx. 435 murders out of a city population of 450,000. In other words, close to 1 out of 1000 citizens were murdered that year. I was a teacher in the public schools and each year I had 1 student murdered.
I dislike guns. I gave up hunting when I was 18 and have never owned a gun since with this exception: in 1996 I bought a handgun for fear of home invasions or burglary. I never had to use it thankfully, but it was there and did in fact give me peace of mind.
I now live in Iowa, a state were it a Canadian province, would be tied (as of 2009) as the 3rd lowest homicide rate in Canada--behind PEI and Newfoundland, and tied with Quebec (I was surprised at Quebec's low homicide rate). I sold my handgun when I moved here.
Most folks in Iowa own guns--but they are hunting rifles and shotguns and used to hunt small game and deer, and not other people.
So, not all the US is violent, but in those many parts that are, there just might be justifiable reasons for arming oneself.
One more reason to keep my tourist dollars north of 49
But if you are visiting Iowa--and there is absolutely no reason to, trust me
--unless you live in PEI or Nfld, you would be safer here than in Canada!No thanks. I'll spend my money in this particular amusement park of Crazytown North.
pineywoodslim @ Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:31 pm
Can't say I blame you, lol.
raydan @ Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:34 pm
Why are you surprised at Quebec's low homicide rate?
pineywoodslim @ Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:37 pm
raydan raydan:
Why are you surprised at Quebec's low homicide rate?
Because Quebec has a large city, Montreal, and the generalization/stereotype is that large cities up the crime rate.
raydan @ Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:44 pm
pineywoodslim pineywoodslim:
raydan raydan:
Why are you surprised at Quebec's low homicide rate?
Because Quebec has a large city, Montreal, and the generalization/stereotype is that large cities up the crime rate.
I think that Montreal is the only city in Québec that has a murder rate.
I live in Québec City, we went a whole year without a murder and it's bigger than New Orleans.
pineywoodslim @ Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:05 pm
raydan raydan:
pineywoodslim pineywoodslim:
raydan raydan:
Why are you surprised at Quebec's low homicide rate?
Because Quebec has a large city, Montreal, and the generalization/stereotype is that large cities up the crime rate.
I think that Montreal is the only city in Québec that has a murder rate.
I live in Québec City, we went a whole year without a murder and it's bigger than New Orleans.
Well, my surprise at the Quebec homicide rate was just based on the stereotype of "big city", i.e, Montreal, not any studied thoughtfulness on the province as a whole.
Ate a great lunch at a quick stop at a small neighborhood restaurant in Quebec City on a looong drive from Newfoundland back to Iowa
Toastmaker @ Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:29 pm
I retired from the LAPD as a Sgt. and in those 21 years absorbed more than a passing familiarity with crime, its perpetrators, victims, reasons and aftermath. I live in the Washington D.C. suburbs and would no more leave my house without a concealed handgun than I would walk outside in a hurricane. My neighbor abhors guns and would never think of owning one.
I think he should have that right but I think I should have my right also - regardless of our respective work histories. As some have stated in this lengthy thread - people have an inherent right to defend themselves against predators, human or otherwise. This is the way most Americans see it.
I am a bit surprised to see Canadians here quite diverse of stance on this subject, as I guess I falsely assumed most Canadians were anti-gun carry. Evidence that I have things to learn about Canada here !!
Gunnair @ Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:31 pm
Toastmaker Toastmaker:
I retired from the LAPD as a Sgt. and in those 21 years absorbed more than a passing familiarity with crime, its perpetrators, victims, reasons and aftermath. I live in the Washington D.C. suburbs and would no more leave my house without a concealed handgun than I would walk outside in a hurricane. My neighbor abhors guns and would never think of owning one.
I think he should have that right but I think I should have my right also - regardless of our respective work histories. As some have stated in this lengthy thread - people have an inherent right to defend themselves against predators, human or otherwise. This is the way most Americans see it.
I am a bit surprised to see Canadians here quite diverse of stance on this subject, as I guess I falsely assumed most Canadians were anti-gun carry. Evidence that I have things to learn about Canada here !!
I think he should have that right but I think I should have my right also - regardless of our respective work histories. As some have stated in this lengthy thread - people have an inherent right to defend themselves against predators, human or otherwise. This is the way most Americans see it.
I am a bit surprised to see Canadians here quite diverse of stance on this subject, as I guess I falsely assumed most Canadians were anti-gun carry. Evidence that I have things to learn about Canada here !!
I think you'll find that there is a reluctance to embrace the US gun culture, however, most are adult enough to at least discuss it - both the pros and cons.
Toastmaker @ Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:37 pm
Well, sure - that's the benefit of a good debate forum like this one. The U.S. has a somewhat unusual history in terms of its development by comparison with many other countries. Canada has a different culture and viewpoint and Mexico's is even more distictly different - all of which results in societal diversity.
Let me ask this; In your opinion (whomever choses to answer), are most Canadians satisfied with their criminal justice system, ie; do they think it fair and reasonably effective ?
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