Native Embassy
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PJB @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:16 pm
thefactremains thefactremains:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Go ahead and prove you were the first peoples, otherwise can it.
Why would I waste my time?
If you claim we are not and you can prove it in court and that proof would have some effect on our land claims then come on down.
It is an accepted fact that we are the First People of this land.
Send your experts to court. Even if you could prove it, it would make no difference, as international law distinguishing inhabited land from uninhabited did not exist then.
However, it did in 1500AD.
Well in true Native Ideoogy tradition, what if we just say it doesnt matter. What if the Conservative Government uses the Native trick of not recognizing something because it doesnt feel like it. What if the Canadians people say if te so-called 'six nations' can openly break the law at Caledonia without apprpriate trial and punishment , why should we as Taxpyers recognize the need at all to spend yet another dime on a sect of te ppulation who thks lawlesness is acceptable.
Or what if we say, we dont care that you're the so-called 'first people' We could say to you what natives say to us (Go back to Europe) , go back to Kamcathka , im sure the Russians would just love to have back and would be a much better country to live under than those nasty nasty Canadians and there irritatng Taxpayers.
Perhaps you should be bitching to your native friends that live on reserves about your tax situation as a chunk of those taxes go to their programs.
PluggyRug @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:17 pm
Stormrider Stormrider:
Donny,speaking as a paleface who has a family member who is a full blood Cree ( dudes the best brother inlaw I could ask for) and couple more who are good friends.Bottom line what would it take to make you happy ?
I got 50 acres up North he can have.
There's even a little bunkie on it.
He can take his bow and hunt for small game.
But he don't want that.
He wants the monetary value of it, gimmee the cash.
thefactremains @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:32 pm
PJB PJB:
thefactremains thefactremains:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Go ahead and prove you were the first peoples, otherwise can it.
Why would I waste my time?
If you claim we are not and you can prove it in court and that proof would have some effect on our land claims then come on down.
It is an accepted fact that we are the First People of this land.
Send your experts to court. Even if you could prove it, it would make no difference, as international law distinguishing inhabited land from uninhabited did not exist then.
However, it did in 1500AD.
Well in true Native Ideoogy tradition, what if we just say it doesnt matter. What if the Conservative Government uses the Native trick of not recognizing something because it doesnt feel like it. What if the Canadians people say if te so-called 'six nations' can openly break the law at Caledonia without apprpriate trial and punishment , why should we as Taxpyers recognize the need at all to spend yet another dime on a sect of te ppulation who thks lawlesness is acceptable.
Or what if we say, we dont care that you're the so-called 'first people' We could say to you what natives say to us (Go back to Europe) , go back to Kamcathka , im sure the Russians would just love to have back and would be a much better country to live under than those nasty nasty Canadians and there irritatng Taxpayers.
Perhaps you should be bitching to your native friends that live on reserves about your tax situation as a chunk of those taxes go to their programs.
thefactremains @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:34 pm
PJB PJB:
thefactremains thefactremains:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Go ahead and prove you were the first peoples, otherwise can it.
Why would I waste my time?
If you claim we are not and you can prove it in court and that proof would have some effect on our land claims then come on down.
It is an accepted fact that we are the First People of this land.
Send your experts to court. Even if you could prove it, it would make no difference, as international law distinguishing inhabited land from uninhabited did not exist then.
However, it did in 1500AD.
Well in true Native Ideoogy tradition, what if we just say it doesnt matter. What if the Conservative Government uses the Native trick of not recognizing something because it doesnt feel like it. What if the Canadians people say if te so-called 'six nations' can openly break the law at Caledonia without apprpriate trial and punishment , why should we as Taxpyers recognize the need at all to spend yet another dime on a sect of te ppulation who thks lawlesness is acceptable.
Or what if we say, we dont care that you're the so-called 'first people' We could say to you what natives say to us (Go back to Europe) , go back to Kamcathka , im sure the Russians would just love to have back and would be a much better country to live under than those nasty nasty Canadians and there irritatng Taxpayers.
Perhaps you should be bitching to your native friends that live on reserves about your tax situation as a chunk of those taxes go to their programs.
thefactremains @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:37 pm
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Stormrider Stormrider:
Donny,speaking as a paleface who has a family member who is a full blood Cree ( dudes the best brother inlaw I could ask for) and couple more who are good friends.Bottom line what would it take to make you happy ?
I got 50 acres up North he can have.
There's even a little bunkie on it.
He can take his bow and hunt for small game.
But he don't want that.
He wants the monetary value of it, gimmee the cash.
PJB @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:41 pm
Where in the hell do you think the money that funds native programs comes from? The tooth fairy? It is your damn taxes that your ever so reluctantly pay. Your taxes go into General Revenue and out of that comes the funding for all those native programs that you demand. So, in other workds, keep demanding them because you are paying for them.
HyperionTheEvil @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:43 pm
thefactremains thefactremains:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Go ahead and prove you were the first peoples, otherwise can it.
Why would I waste my time?
If you claim we are not and you can prove it in court and that proof would have some effect on our land claims then come on down.
It is an accepted fact that we are the First People of this land.
Send your experts to court. Even if you could prove it, it would make no difference, as international law distinguishing inhabited land from uninhabited did not exist then.
However, it did in 1500AD.
Well in true Native Ideoogy tradition, what if we just say it doesnt matter. What if the Conservative Government uses the Native trick of not recognizing something because it doesnt feel like it. What if the Canadians people say if te so-called 'six nations' can openly break the law at Caledonia without apprpriate trial and punishment , why should we as Taxpyers recognize the need at all to spend yet another dime on a sect of te ppulation who thks lawlesness is acceptable.
Or what if we say, we dont care that you're the so-called 'first people' We could say to you what natives say to us (Go back to Europe) , go back to Kamcathka , im sure the Russians would just love to have back and would be a much better country to live under than those nasty nasty Canadians and there irritatng Taxpayers.
The indian act specifically sections 90, 87[1] and 87[2] epxlains that natives who employ comes from a reserve, derives his/her salary from a place physically on the reserve (even though the work may actually take place far off of it) is tax exempt under the definiton of 'personal property' - by the way this includes EI benefits which noraml taxpayers , pay tax on.
MUST REGISTERED INDIANS PAY TAXES?
It depends. There are some situations in which Registered Indians do not pay taxes. Under sections 87 and 90 of the Indian Act, Registered Indians do not pay federal or provincial taxes on their personal and real property that is on a reserve. Personal property includes goods, services and income consistent with Canada Customs and Revenue Agency (CCRA) policies.
* In this document, when the term "First Nation" is used in the context of the Indian Act, it refers to an Indian Act band.
Since income is personal property, as a Registered (or entitled-to-be-registered) Indian, you may also be exempt from paying income tax on income earned on a reserve. For example, Registered Indians who work on a reserve do not pay federal or provincial taxes on their employment income. See the CCRA's June 1994 guidelines of "Indian Exemption on Employment Income."
Registered Indians do not pay federal or provincial sales taxes on personal and real property on a reserve. The federal Goods and Services Tax (GST) does not apply to on-reserve goods or to those goods acquired by a Registered Indian off-reserve, if the goods are delivered to a reserve by the vendor or the vendor's agent. Most provincial sales taxes are applied in a similar fashion. Special provincial rules may apply to items such as automobiles and alcohol. For example, in some provinces, an automobile must be registered to a reserve address to be tax exempt. For more information, contact the relevant provincial tax authorities.
A pamphlet outlining how federal GST affects sales and purchases by Registered Indians is available from all CCRA offices.
http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/pr/pub/ywtk/ ... html#mript
Donny_Brasco @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:46 pm
PJB PJB:
Donny...You better watch yourself. One of these days the government is going to cut you off and ignore the treaties not unlike how the natives pick and choose which statutes they want to follow. We could just declare the treaties invalid and be done with it. Who are you going to appeal it to?
We'll just take all land covered by treaty back and apply to the UN for protection.
Of course they will see that you decided that the treaties did not suit your agenda and under international law all land that is covered by treaty will revert to its original owner.
And that will pretty much be the end of that. A bunch of former Canadians living on land they do not own paying rent to the Aboriginal people.
Of course we might be able to work out some sort of school system where we can re-educate your kids for free.
For a while we will have to put trade and movement restrictions on all non-Aboriginal people, but that is just until we get our own systems and markets up to speed and then you can participate on a limited level. But don't worry, we will give anyone who does not want to participate a cheque each month for roughly 1/3 of the level of poverty.
And your free to leave to anywhere in the world where you think you can get a better shake.
You forget that these are Nation to Nation treaties, not something you can unilaterally change or ignore without consequence.
With the backing of 191 other nations in the world I imagine you'll be changing your mind about ignoring legally binding international treaties.
ShepherdsDog @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:52 pm
$1:
We'll just take all land covered by treaty back and apply to the UN for protection.
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That's funny. Go Ahead and ask them. Most UN officials make Quebec politicians look like Saints. As to military protection from the UN..... BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Donny yer funny....... And you think we gave you a raw deal??
thefactremains @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:55 pm
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
thefactremains thefactremains:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Go ahead and prove you were the first peoples, otherwise can it.
Why would I waste my time?
If you claim we are not and you can prove it in court and that proof would have some effect on our land claims then come on down.
It is an accepted fact that we are the First People of this land.
Send your experts to court. Even if you could prove it, it would make no difference, as international law distinguishing inhabited land from uninhabited did not exist then.
However, it did in 1500AD.
Well in true Native Ideoogy tradition, what if we just say it doesnt matter. What if the Conservative Government uses the Native trick of not recognizing something because it doesnt feel like it. What if the Canadians people say if te so-called 'six nations' can openly break the law at Caledonia without apprpriate trial and punishment , why should we as Taxpyers recognize the need at all to spend yet another dime on a sect of te ppulation who thks lawlesness is acceptable.
Or what if we say, we dont care that you're the so-called 'first people' We could say to you what natives say to us (Go back to Europe) , go back to Kamcathka , im sure the Russians would just love to have back and would be a much better country to live under than those nasty nasty Canadians and there irritatng Taxpayers.
The indian act specifically sections 90, 87[1] and 87[2] epxlains that natives who employ comes from a reserve, derives his/her salary from a place physically on the reserve (even though the work may actually take place far off of it) is tax exempt under the definiton of 'personal property' - by the way this includes EI benefits which noraml taxpayers , pay tax on.
MUST REGISTERED INDIANS PAY TAXES?
It depends. There are some situations in which Registered Indians do not pay taxes. Under sections 87 and 90 of the Indian Act, Registered Indians do not pay federal or provincial taxes on their personal and real property that is on a reserve. Personal property includes goods, services and income consistent with Canada Customs and Revenue Agency (CCRA) policies.
* In this document, when the term "First Nation" is used in the context of the Indian Act, it refers to an Indian Act band.
Since income is personal property, as a Registered (or entitled-to-be-registered) Indian, you may also be exempt from paying income tax on income earned on a reserve. For example, Registered Indians who work on a reserve do not pay federal or provincial taxes on their employment income. See the CCRA's June 1994 guidelines of "Indian Exemption on Employment Income."
Registered Indians do not pay federal or provincial sales taxes on personal and real property on a reserve. The federal Goods and Services Tax (GST) does not apply to on-reserve goods or to those goods acquired by a Registered Indian off-reserve, if the goods are delivered to a reserve by the vendor or the vendor's agent. Most provincial sales taxes are applied in a similar fashion. Special provincial rules may apply to items such as automobiles and alcohol. For example, in some provinces, an automobile must be registered to a reserve address to be tax exempt. For more information, contact the relevant provincial tax authorities.
A pamphlet outlining how federal GST affects sales and purchases by Registered Indians is available from all CCRA offices.
http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/pr/pub/ywtk/ ... html#mript
Mustang1 @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:08 pm
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
PJB PJB:
Donny...You better watch yourself. One of these days the government is going to cut you off and ignore the treaties not unlike how the natives pick and choose which statutes they want to follow. We could just declare the treaties invalid and be done with it. Who are you going to appeal it to?
We'll just take all land covered by treaty back and apply to the UN for protection.
Of course they will see that you decided that the treaties did not suit your agenda and under international law all land that is covered by treaty will revert to its original owner.
And that will pretty much be the end of that. A bunch of former Canadians living on land they do not own paying rent to the Aboriginal people.
Of course we might be able to work out some sort of school system where we can re-educate your kids for free.
For a while we will have to put trade and movement restrictions on all non-Aboriginal people, but that is just until we get our own systems and markets up to speed and then you can participate on a limited level. But don't worry, we will give anyone who does not want to participate a cheque each month for roughly 1/3 of the level of poverty.
And your free to leave to anywhere in the world where you think you can get a better shake.
You forget that these are Nation to Nation treaties, not something you can unilaterally change or ignore without consequence.
With the backing of 191 other nations in the world I imagine you'll be changing your mind about ignoring legally binding international treaties.
Grow up and get some perspective – you sand like an infantile twit insisting the UN can do a damn thing.
This dumb fuck thinks that UN mandates supersede domestic law? Yeah right! Ask the United States how that works! Believe me, you naively believe that the United States would support this? How about Britain? France? China? Russia? Spain? Australia? Nope. And there are no teeth in it anyway as sovereign nations shouldn’t always answer to international organization that possess little representative democracy nor direct accountability. Damn
Now, be off coward, as you have done enough idiocy for one evening
Stormrider @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:19 pm
Stormrider Stormrider:
Donny,speaking as a paleface who has a family member who is a full blood Cree ( dudes the best brother inlaw I could ask for) and couple more who are good friends.Bottom line what would it take to make you happy ?
Donny_Brasco wrote:
$1:
We'll just take all land covered by treaty back and apply to the UN for protection.
Of course they will see that you decided that the treaties did not suit your agenda and under international law all land that is covered by treaty will revert to its original owner.
And that will pretty much be the end of that. A bunch of former Canadians living on land they do not own paying rent to the Aboriginal people.
Of course we might be able to work out some sort of school system where we can re-educate your kids for free.
For a while we will have to put trade and movement restrictions on all non-Aboriginal people, but that is just until we get our own systems and markets up to speed and then you can participate on a limited level. But don't worry, we will give anyone who does not want to participate a cheque each month for roughly 1/3 of the level of poverty.
And your free to leave to anywhere in the world where you think you can get a better shake.
You forget that these are Nation to Nation treaties, not something you can unilaterally change or ignore without consequence.
With the backing of 191 other nations in the world I imagine you'll be changing your mind about ignoring legally binding international treaties.
Of course they will see that you decided that the treaties did not suit your agenda and under international law all land that is covered by treaty will revert to its original owner.
And that will pretty much be the end of that. A bunch of former Canadians living on land they do not own paying rent to the Aboriginal people.
Of course we might be able to work out some sort of school system where we can re-educate your kids for free.
For a while we will have to put trade and movement restrictions on all non-Aboriginal people, but that is just until we get our own systems and markets up to speed and then you can participate on a limited level. But don't worry, we will give anyone who does not want to participate a cheque each month for roughly 1/3 of the level of poverty.
And your free to leave to anywhere in the world where you think you can get a better shake.
You forget that these are Nation to Nation treaties, not something you can unilaterally change or ignore without consequence.
With the backing of 191 other nations in the world I imagine you'll be changing your mind about ignoring legally binding international treaties.
Thanks for your answer Don ,more power to you its great that you have a vision a dream. No one can honestly argue that lifes much better for First Nations people since non-Aboriginals arrived. One suggestion when that day you've discribed comes, be sure to have one killer of a militarty so as to hold on to what you've gained.
Donny_Brasco @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:07 pm
Mustang1 Mustang1:
This dumb fuck thinks that UN mandates supersede domestic law? Yeah right! Ask the United States how that works! Believe me, you naively believe that the United States would support this? How about Britain? France? China? Russia? Spain? Australia? Nope. And there are no teeth in it anyway as sovereign nations shouldn’t always answer to international organization that possess little representative democracy nor direct accountability.
Maybe you are right. But the Treaties that you have with First Nations are legally binding nation-to-nation treaties.
If you think you can simply unilaterally ignore them you have a big surprise coming.
We are not giving up and we are not going away. So do what you must but pulling everyone down because you are too bigoted to find a solution that meets us half way as equals then you will spend a hundred times that fighting us for it.
What do you think the costs of Caledonia, Burnt Church, Oka, Miramichi, Ipperwash, or Gustafson Lake are?
Times that by a few thousands and you have the minimum result of ignoring our rights as Aboriginal people, never mind your ruined international reputation, the economic damage done by blocked roads, rails, bridges and waterways all across the country.
You'll see a little of that tomorrow. You'll see a lot of it if that in the future, if that is what you really want.
Donny_Brasco @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:09 pm
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Stormrider Stormrider:
Donny,speaking as a paleface who has a family member who is a full blood Cree ( dudes the best brother inlaw I could ask for) and couple more who are good friends.Bottom line what would it take to make you happy ?
I got 50 acres up North he can have.
There's even a little bunkie on it.
He can take his bow and hunt for small game.
But he don't want that.
He wants the monetary value of it, gimmee the cash.
Well we could ask for an expedient means of negotiating all of the outstanding land claims, we might also be willing to renegotiate treaties.
We might ask that all outstanding land not covered by treaty is accounted for (based on the Royal Proclamation of 1763).
We could sit and discuss arrangements that would make aboriginal people equal partners in this country, with our own governments and rights to our original lands including the first right of refusal for resource development other economic development and the jobs that go along with them.
I think there would be plenty of long-term benefits to both parties if we were to settle everything in a fair manner that would save Canada trillions of dollars over the long run yet provide the land, money and infrastructure needed for Aboriginal people to be full participants in a society where we both can determine our own destinies, keep our culture, values and languages.
Because keeping our dignity and culture as aboriginal people while working as equals with the white people was what the treaties were all about in the first place. It was the non-Aboriginal people who decided to wipe out our heritage, that their culture was better and that equality meant erasing who we are as people and re-programming us to be like them.
Of course the short term effect of this would be the hostility of the people who are ignorant to Canada's history and relationship to Aboriginal people. I could also see the resentment from the white community seeing aboriginal people working as equals in their own industries competing for jobs and contracts. I could see problems with white folks looking over the fence thinking that they have paid for our green grass, ignorantly ignoring the fact that this land was ours and we did the best we could with it to get what we are hoping for.
Of course that would mean that we would all have to look across the table as equals at each other. Are white people ready for that?
Stormrider @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:20 pm
Don what might a finalised map of Canada look like once all greements were settled or promises kept ?
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