Should the West (BC, AB, SK, MB) join into 1 Province?
saturn_656 @ Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Joe_Stalin Joe_Stalin:
BC is closer to Azerbaijan than to Ontario or Quebec.
Lets join our comrades instead.
AzebaiBC inc.
We could dump the useless Senate at the same time.
Lets join our comrades instead.
AzebaiBC inc.
We could dump the useless Senate at the same time.
This is your brain on drugs... any questions?
fifeboy @ Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:28 pm
sasquatch2 sasquatch2:
Fifeboy
No! We could start teaching science in highschools instead opf the leftist version of scientology called CO2 AGW. We could burn the current history texts, (leftist pamphlets) and re issue the textbooks of the fifties prior to the revisionists posing as teachers.
To effect this we would take the current teacher-posers (lefty handringers, tree-huggers) give them an axe and have them cutting pulpwood north of Superior. That was the Soviet answer to anti-social, enemies of the people.
![[bash]](./images/smilies/bash.gif "Bash")
$1:
We could stop the teaching of science in highschools, ban abortions, stone unmarried teens who " have sex", hang kids who steal a loaf of bread and introduce all kinds of new and progressive laws.
No! We could start teaching science in highschools instead opf the leftist version of scientology called CO2 AGW. We could burn the current history texts, (leftist pamphlets) and re issue the textbooks of the fifties prior to the revisionists posing as teachers.
To effect this we would take the current teacher-posers (lefty handringers, tree-huggers) give them an axe and have them cutting pulpwood north of Superior. That was the Soviet answer to anti-social, enemies of the people.
When was the last time you read a high school science textbook? When was the last time you talked to a high school or any teacher?
sandorski @ Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:59 pm
Nah, the three Prairie Provinces joining together makes a lot of sense though. Mainly due to being a similar landmass and having much more in common with each other. BC is just too different though, with far different Needs.
Yogi @ Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:29 pm
GD_ GD_:
You can't compare the prairies to BC, and besides Alberta wouldn't want to share it's oil money with us hippies in BC
We'll 'take' B.C. For the obvious. The 'oceanfront property' and of course the abundance of seafood.
We already have enough 'wheat & woodticks'.Besides, it's bad enough when our 'poor cousins come to visit and mooch our grub and just make a mess of the place. We sure don't want 'em movin in!
hurley_108 @ Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:43 pm
westmanguy westmanguy:
This goes back to the beginning of confederation.
AB, SK, and MB were supposed to be 1 province called Buffalo, but Sir John A. McDonald wanted to keep the power in Ontario and Quebec, so it was split in 3.
Thats my general understanding.
So if BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba were to combine into 1 province (we could name it Buffalo for the historical significance), we would have a much bigger power within the Confederation and would have the political influence of Ontario and Quebec.
Population wise:
Ontario - 12,753,702
Quebec - 7,687,068
British Columbia - 4,352,798
Alberta - 3,455,062
Saskatchewan - 990,212
Manitoba - 1,182,921
___________________________
Buffalo - 9,980,993
Thats basically 10 million, 1/3rd of Canada's Population.
That would give us the power to be rate up their with Quebec and Ontario in importance.
Your views?
AB, SK, and MB were supposed to be 1 province called Buffalo, but Sir John A. McDonald wanted to keep the power in Ontario and Quebec, so it was split in 3.
Thats my general understanding.
So if BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba were to combine into 1 province (we could name it Buffalo for the historical significance), we would have a much bigger power within the Confederation and would have the political influence of Ontario and Quebec.
Population wise:
Ontario - 12,753,702
Quebec - 7,687,068
British Columbia - 4,352,798
Alberta - 3,455,062
Saskatchewan - 990,212
Manitoba - 1,182,921
___________________________
Buffalo - 9,980,993
Thats basically 10 million, 1/3rd of Canada's Population.
That would give us the power to be rate up their with Quebec and Ontario in importance.
Your views?
Go for it. Means what was once Alberta's alone (the Oil & Gas money) would now belong to Buffalo as a whole, to be more equitably distributed. I would also welcome the mellowing influence of BC and the social conscience of Saskatchewan and Manitoba.
I'm on board!
Mustang1 @ Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:05 am
fifeboy fifeboy:
sasquatch2 sasquatch2:
Fifeboy
No! We could start teaching science in highschools instead opf the leftist version of scientology called CO2 AGW. We could burn the current history texts, (leftist pamphlets) and re issue the textbooks of the fifties prior to the revisionists posing as teachers.
To effect this we would take the current teacher-posers (lefty handringers, tree-huggers) give them an axe and have them cutting pulpwood north of Superior. That was the Soviet answer to anti-social, enemies of the people.
$1:
We could stop the teaching of science in highschools, ban abortions, stone unmarried teens who " have sex", hang kids who steal a loaf of bread and introduce all kinds of new and progressive laws.
No! We could start teaching science in highschools instead opf the leftist version of scientology called CO2 AGW. We could burn the current history texts, (leftist pamphlets) and re issue the textbooks of the fifties prior to the revisionists posing as teachers.
To effect this we would take the current teacher-posers (lefty handringers, tree-huggers) give them an axe and have them cutting pulpwood north of Superior. That was the Soviet answer to anti-social, enemies of the people.
When was the last time you read a high school science textbook? When was the last time you talked to a high school or any teacher?
Yetiboy won't answer as he's apt to cower intellectually when faced direct challenges. All he does is peddle ignorance and base rhetoric and run the minute he's asked to elaborate. Suffice to say, he's got a knack for being consistently out his frickin' mind on almost every post.
Arctic_Menace @ Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:16 am
Mustang1 Mustang1:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
You clearly know shit all about Canadian history.
That's par for the course around here.
Arctic_Menace @ Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:21 am
Just a note about current history books and history teachers; modern history courses are hard as hell because the questions are usually along the lines of: "List the political, historical, economical, social and cultural reasons that may have led to this situation?" It is because of questions like that that I nearly failed Grade 12 history. And it is not all leftist tripe. It involved thinking and inquiry and deep knowledge of the subject and all other adjuncts of it as well. It took us over a month to cover the lead up to and cause of WWI based on numerous factors. It was not my teacher saying: "Right Wing bad, Left Wing good."
bootlegga @ Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:14 am
This is a totally stupid idea. Canada is just fine the way it is. The biggest thing I love about western separatists is the total hypocrisy. They constantly bash Quebec for wanting to leave, yet see nohting wrong with their own willingness to destroy the country.
And the province of Buffalo was supposed to be AB and SK. MB had already been a province of Canada for more than 30 years...
Clogeroo @ Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:26 am
$1:
This is a totally stupid idea. Canada is just fine the way it is. The biggest thing I love about western separatists is the total hypocrisy. They constantly bash Quebec for wanting to leave, yet see nohting wrong with their own willingness to destroy the country.
No Canada is not fine. The political system needs to be reformed, equalisation and hand outs needs to end, provinces and people receiving special treatment and regional favouritism needs to cease, the bribing of Quebec to stay needs to stop. If this does not happen asking people to pay and stay to bribe other people to do the same and also pay for others economic mismanagement is hardly reasonable nor fair. Canada needs to shove off and let the provinces manage themselves the way they want too and if they fail because of it it is their own fault and their problem. However knowing this will never most likely never happen and as long as Ontario and Quebec make up most of the federation's population they will always be looked after and will have no reason to move for any sort of change. Thus independence should be looked into.
bootlegga @ Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:37 am
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
No Canada is not fine. The political system needs to be reformed, equalisation and hand outs needs to end, provinces and people receiving special treatment and regional favouritism needs to cease, the bribing of Quebec to stay needs to stop. If this does not happen asking people to pay and stay to bribe other people to do the same and also pay for others economic mismanagement is hardly reasonable nor fair. Canada needs to shove off and let the provinces manage themselves the way they want too and if they fail because of it it is their own fault and their problem. However knowing this will never most likely never happen and as long as Ontario and Quebec make up most of the federation's population they will always be looked after and will have no reason to move for any sort of change. Thus independence should be looked into.
That sort of logic reminds me of the Vietnam era statement "To save the village, we had to destroy it".
Yes, Canada needs some revisions, but tearing it apart simply because you don't get what you want is childish...or do you want to take your ball and go home?
Mustang1 @ Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:14 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
No Canada is not fine. The political system needs to be reformed, equalisation and hand outs needs to end, provinces and people receiving special treatment and regional favouritism needs to cease, the bribing of Quebec to stay needs to stop. If this does not happen asking people to pay and stay to bribe other people to do the same and also pay for others economic mismanagement is hardly reasonable nor fair. Canada needs to shove off and let the provinces manage themselves the way they want too and if they fail because of it it is their own fault and their problem. However knowing this will never most likely never happen and as long as Ontario and Quebec make up most of the federation's population they will always be looked after and will have no reason to move for any sort of change. Thus independence should be looked into.
That sort of logic reminds me of the Vietnam era statement "To save the village, we had to destroy it".
Yes, Canada needs some revisions, but tearing it apart simply because you don't get what you want is childish...or do you want to take your ball and go home?
He's not wort it, Boot. This is political ideals brought about from no education, youth and blinders. The Canadian system is fine and all this "talk" about "seperation" is nothing more than idle rhetoric brought forth by those that really don't know anyway.
Clogeroo @ Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:55 pm
$1:
That sort of logic reminds me of the Vietnam era statement "To save the village, we had to destroy it".
Yes, Canada needs some revisions, but tearing it apart simply because you don't get what you want is childish...or do you want to take your ball and go home?
Yes, Canada needs some revisions, but tearing it apart simply because you don't get what you want is childish...or do you want to take your ball and go home?
It is not about getting so much what we want but more a question of need. If you honestly wanted to see Canada actually survive as something then these issues will have to be actually addressed and most likely implemented. Canada (Ontario and Quebec) are going to have to give up some power and learn to share it with a new emerging one that is rising. What is being asked and what most people from my understanding want is quite reasonable and have been pitching this for the last century. You hear the same thing from most people our voice is not being heard in this federation thus our concerns are simply dismissed (As you are doing). Many have brought up political reform such as the Triple E senate to help make sure everyone's voice is heard as an equal partner and member of this federation. But obviously "Canada" does not want this or a balanced fair government. When it comes down to provincial affairs most of the west just wants to be left to their own and most hardly express much an interest in what the other provinces do in their domain. So this isn't about getting our way or like Quebec is doing trying to implement their way across Canada. Or like Ontarians trying to cash in on our resources. You rarely see any leader from B.C. pushing to take money from Ontario's automotive sector or Alberta wanting a share of Quebec's hydroelectric revenue. But Canada still feels like we are their little pet colonies thus can make decisions outside of their jurisdiction. The whole reason why we have an independence movement here is because many people like myself are tired of being taken advantage of by supposedly fellow countrymen. How much do we have to take before we say enough is enough? Obviously standing up for yourself is a childish idea to you but to me standing up for ones principals and rights is a noble one.
$1:
He's not wort it, Boot. This is political ideals brought about from no education, youth and blinders. The Canadian system is fine and all this "talk" about "seperation" is nothing more than idle rhetoric brought forth by those that really don't know anyway.
The Canadian system is fine? Maybe in your ignorant self-centred world. If it was fine we would not have a third of people west of Ontario wishing that we take our provinces out of this federation. I would hardly call throwing money at another province in order to keep them here is "fine" either. If this is your idea of a fine country then your expectations must be considerably low.
Yogi @ Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:12 pm
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
$1:
That sort of logic reminds me of the Vietnam era statement "To save the village, we had to destroy it".
Yes, Canada needs some revisions, but tearing it apart simply because you don't get what you want is childish...or do you want to take your ball and go home?
Yes, Canada needs some revisions, but tearing it apart simply because you don't get what you want is childish...or do you want to take your ball and go home?
It is not about getting so much what we want but more a question of need. If you honestly wanted to see Canada actually survive as something then these issues will have to be actually addressed and most likely implemented. Canada (Ontario and Quebec) are going to have to give up some power and learn to share it with a new emerging one that is rising. What is being asked and what most people from my understanding want is quite reasonable and have been pitching this for the last century. You hear the same thing from most people our voice is not being heard in this federation thus our concerns are simply dismissed (As you are doing). Many have brought up political reform such as the Triple E senate to help make sure everyone's voice is heard as an equal partner and member of this federation. But obviously "Canada" does not want this or a balanced fair government. When it comes down to provincial affairs most of the west just wants to be left to their own and most hardly express much an interest in what the other provinces do in their domain. So this isn't about getting our way or like Quebec is doing trying to implement their way across Canada. Or like Ontarians trying to cash in on our resources. You rarely see any leader from B.C. pushing to take money from Ontario's automotive sector or Alberta wanting a share of Quebec's hydroelectric revenue. But Canada still feels like we are their little pet colonies thus can make decisions outside of their jurisdiction. The whole reason why we have an independence movement here is because many people like myself are tired of being taken advantage of by supposedly fellow countrymen. How much do we have to take before we say enough is enough? Obviously standing up for yourself is a childish idea to you but to me standing up for ones principals and rights is a noble one.
$1:
He's not wort it, Boot. This is political ideals brought about from no education, youth and blinders. The Canadian system is fine and all this "talk" about "seperation" is nothing more than idle rhetoric brought forth by those that really don't know anyway.
The Canadian system is fine? Maybe in your ignorant self-centred world. If it was fine we would not have a third of people west of Ontario wishing that we take our provinces out of this federation. I would hardly call throwing money at another province in order to keep them here is "fine" either. If this is your idea of a fine country then your expectations must be considerably low.
VERY RARE indeed, that I would ever agree with Clogeroo on anything. But this is one point of view that I agree with whole-heartedly.
Until ALL the provinces have an EQUAL VOICE in the running of the country, and no 'one society' being given preferential treatment...
Alberta is contributing the lions share of revenue and getting precious little in return.
bootlegga @ Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:25 pm
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
It is not about getting so much what we want but more a question of need. If you honestly wanted to see Canada actually survive as something then these issues will have to be actually addressed and most likely implemented. Canada (Ontario and Quebec) are going to have to give up some power and learn to share it with a new emerging one that is rising. What is being asked and what most people from my understanding want is quite reasonable and have been pitching this for the last century. You hear the same thing from most people our voice is not being heard in this federation thus our concerns are simply dismissed (As you are doing). Many have brought up political reform such as the Triple E senate to help make sure everyone's voice is heard as an equal partner and member of this federation. But obviously "Canada" does not want this or a balanced fair government. When it comes down to provincial affairs most of the west just wants to be left to their own and most hardly express much an interest in what the other provinces do in their domain. So this isn't about getting our way or like Quebec is doing trying to implement their way across Canada. Or like Ontarians trying to cash in on our resources. You rarely see any leader from B.C. pushing to take money from Ontario's automotive sector or Alberta wanting a share of Quebec's hydroelectric revenue. But Canada still feels like we are their little pet colonies thus can make decisions outside of their jurisdiction. The whole reason why we have an independence movement here is because many people like myself are tired of being taken advantage of by supposedly fellow countrymen. How much do we have to take before we say enough is enough? Obviously standing up for yourself is a childish idea to you but to me standing up for ones principals and rights is a noble one.
I find it quite humourous when Westerners bitch about NOT having a more representative senate. We could have had one if western Canadians had been willing to share and share alike. Under Meech Lake it would have been elected and effective, with more representation for the West. But Manitoba decided not to endorse it, as did Newfoundland. Then, we could have had a similar Senate under the Charlottetown Accord, but this time westerners en masse refused to agree to it. The fact is our Senate could be far better right now than it is, but a large majority of westerners (over two thirds of BCers) refused the age-old system of give and take, insisting that only their demands be heard. Once again, pretty childish if you ask me...
As for the notion that BC never asked for money from Ontario's manufacturing sector, you obviously need to read your history text a bit closer. The entire West chaffed for decades (early in Confederation) under the trading tariffs/rules that made it virtually impossible to import cheaper American goods, forcing them to buy Canadian-made goods (manufactured guess where). Had the West had their choice early on, there would be NO manufacturing sector at all in Canada. That was one of the earliest reasons behind western alienation, not equalization payments. The West also benefited from the construction of the Trans-Canada Railway, which was funded by big bad Ontario and Quebec for the most part. The manufacturing sector in Ontario and Quebec are part of the equalization formula, so any province accepting transfer payments has indeed been taking Ontario manufacturing money. The NEP, that's old news and needs to be forgotten. Even Dion isn't crazy enough to try and bring that in again...
Westerners can bitch and moan about our lack of power, but the fact is as our population grows, we will increase the number of MPs and hence expand our "power". It's pretty childish to expect that to change overnight.