Should the West (BC, AB, SK, MB) join into 1 Province?
Clogeroo @ Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:32 am
$1:
Glad to see you high on rhetoric and low on knowledge - it makes my role easier. But hey, I’ll be sporting to the cognitively challenged; you demonstrate that we live in an aristocracy. My bets are on you either retreating to some cowardly intellectually relativist corner or simply wussing out. Let’s see who lives in this “world of ignorance”.
If you had any command of the English language you should read what I wrote again before jumping up and down like a barbaric hun.
$1:
DODGE!!!!!! And Skippy follows that up with a fine argumentative fallacy to boot! Come on, “I-worked-in-an-office-and-once-i-had-a-Coke-with-my-noodles” thinker, let’s see you back up your claim that, “33% of British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba want to separate and this is, in fact, due in large part to the failure of our current system”. I don’t want your uneducated prattle (let’s be honest, you haven’t read crap on the subject nor have you even attended a real political science course), personal observations or cowardly dodges, either substantiate your point or go back to under your bridge.
The last Poll on the matter of independence was at a third of the provinces here on average (I thought you knew everything?). British Columbia and Alberta averaged slightly more than Saskatchewan and Manitoba in terms of independence. I'm not sure how I can speak for over 3 million people and their reason to want to leave this federation. Perhaps you should ask them for I already gave much of my reasoning for wishing to call it quits. Many have expressed displeasure with the system however if you deny this then you are really the troll under the bridge. If you had any idea about the independence of the west you certainly do not exhibit any knowledge of it nor anything outside your limited scope and view.
Also spare the log files your pathetic attempts at humour.
$1:
Continue spouting your ignorance if you wish but it impresses no one that is politically aware. Sorry, you’re a wannabe trying to matter here and a coward to boot. Shuffle on, Skippy, shuffle on.
Impress you? I'm not here to impress you with anything. I'm here stating my discourse with this country and have no desire to try and woo your royal highnesses Mr. Know-it-all master of the universe which you must perceive yourself as. Perhaps you should run along unless you actually have something intelligent to say or are you going to throw a few more “skippy's” in to try and some how make a point? That one point you actually managed to form that everything is fine because I said so. Well great I say it is not and gave the reasons why which you have not quarrelled against therefore they stand.
Knoss @ Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:37 am
Orignally the Assiniaboia territory was to extend from Ontario to the rockies but only extend northward tot he parklands. This would be have been a better boundary to have the praries as one province the parklands as a Cree province and the Shield as an Ojibwe province.
Mustang1 @ Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:04 pm
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
If you had any command of the English language you should read what I wrote again before jumping up and down like a barbaric hun.
Actually, Barbaric Hun is redundant in this context (and you're commenting on other's English skills?) and my command of the language trumps yours, Skippy. Shuffle on.
$1:
“The last Poll on the matter of independence was at a third of the provinces here on average (I thought you knew everything?). British Columbia and Alberta averaged slightly more than Saskatchewan and Manitoba in terms of independence. I'm not sure how I can speak for over 3 million people and their reason to want to leave this federation. Perhaps you should ask them for I already gave much of my reasoning for wishing to call it quits. Many have expressed displeasure with the system however if you deny this then you are really the troll under the bridge. If you had any idea about the independence of the west you certainly do not exhibit any knowledge of it nor anything outside your limited scope and view.”
Well…at the very least you produced something substantial. Now let’s look at the results, shall we? Firstly, It’s 2005 and that represents a lifetime in politics (especially in light of the Conservative minority victory since then), but I’ll be fair and work off those numbers for the time being. Secondly, the question seems rather vague – is it asking for true political separation or quasi-federalism or some sort of sovereignty-association? This tends to smell a little like the ambiguity thrust upon Quebeckers by their separation movements. Thirdly, the source bears some scrutiny – the Western Standard is an organ of Western Separation and launched by Levant – I’d be interested in seeing other polls conducted by unbiased research firms (even Klein admitted that 40% of Alberta seemed high). Fourthly, I’d like to see the individual number breakdown from British Columbia, Manitoba and Saskatchewan as the Alberta numbers could skew results. Also, just fewer than 1500 people polled are a rather small sample – I wonder how this would play with a bigger pool. Lastly, what were the contemporary issue at play during the time the poll was conducted – often with political issues, these things are repeated because some issues, like the Liberal Sponsorship scandal or Liberal pork barreling can objectively affect numbers and skew results.
Also, I noticed you conveniently didn’t show the correlation between numbers and a wholesale rejection of the system. There may be dissatisfaction with some aspects (only a naïve goof would search for perfection or assume it’s possible in politics) but that doesn’t necessarily mean they desire full-scale separation and a dissolution of the Canadian state.
$1:
“Also spare the log files your pathetic attempts at humour.”
Only if you spare us your uneducated prattle.
$1:
“Impress you? I'm not here to impress you with anything. I'm here stating my discourse with this country and have no desire to try and woo your royal highnesses Mr. Know-it-all master of the universe which you must perceive yourself as. Perhaps you should run along unless you actually have something intelligent to say or are you going to throw a few more “skippy's” in to try and some how make a point? That one point you actually managed to form that everything is fine because I said so. Well great I say it is not and gave the reasons why which you have not quarrelled against therefore they stand.”
Actually, Skippy, I’ll be here for the duration as you seem found of littering the forum with your litany of ignorant rants (remember trying your hand at revisionism?), political misfires, intellectual relativism and seditious desires. Whether you think I’m a “know-it-all” or not is immaterial, because when compared to an intellectual pigmy like you I’m an intellectual Leviathan. Sorry, Skippy, each and every time you feel the need to push your anti-Canadian agenda, I’ll be here to use you as a cognitive punching bag.
Keep on Truckin’ in 2007, Skippy
Wally_Sconce @ Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:46 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Yeah, and we Ontarians with over a third of the population aren't contributing shit.
I admit that Ontario contributes, but they have also had a federal government that caters to them, Alberta doesn;t get that level of respect from Otawwa
Clogeroo @ Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:49 pm
$1:
Actually, Barbaric Hun is redundant in this context (and you're commenting on other's English skills?) and my command of the language trumps yours, Skippy. Shuffle on.
At least it got your attention to read what I had actually written before you went further on with your psycho babel.
$1:
Well…at the very least you produced something substantial. Now let’s look at the results, shall we? Firstly, It’s 2005 and that represents a lifetime in politics (especially in light of the Conservative minority victory since then), but I’ll be fair and work off those numbers for the time being. Secondly, the question seems rather vague – is it asking for true political separation or quasi-federalism or some sort of sovereignty-association? This tends to smell a little like the ambiguity thrust upon Quebeckers by their separation movements. Thirdly, the source bears some scrutiny – the Western Standard is an organ of Western Separation and launched by Levant – I’d be interested in seeing other polls conducted by unbiased research firms (even Klein admitted that 40% of Alberta seemed high). Fourthly, I’d like to see the individual number breakdown from British Columbia, Manitoba and Saskatchewan as the Alberta numbers could skew results. Also, just fewer than 1500 people polled are a rather small sample – I wonder how this would play with a bigger pool. Lastly, what were the contemporary issue at play during the time the poll was conducted – often with political issues, these things are repeated because some issues, like the Liberal Sponsorship scandal or Liberal pork barreling can objectively affect numbers and skew results.
Also, I noticed you conveniently didn’t show the correlation between numbers and a wholesale rejection of the system. There may be dissatisfaction with some aspects (only a naïve goof would search for perfection or assume it’s possible in politics) but that doesn’t necessarily mean they desire full-scale separation and a dissolution of the Canadian state.
Also, I noticed you conveniently didn’t show the correlation between numbers and a wholesale rejection of the system. There may be dissatisfaction with some aspects (only a naïve goof would search for perfection or assume it’s possible in politics) but that doesn’t necessarily mean they desire full-scale separation and a dissolution of the Canadian state.
Finally you actually post something worth commenting on. You're probably right the poll is old and was done by the western standard. How accurate is it? Perhaps not at all. But I have not found any more update ones nor by any other sources. Even if they have lets say the Toronto star made one most would be calling it biased too.
Full poll
Here is the full poll just find the link on there and opens a word document with more details. What is surprising is still many were unchanged by sponsorship scandal or other political issues. Whether this means they are unchanged that they still wish to stay with Canada or unchanged in that it did not affect their independence views is unclear.
Also there is quite a large gender gap for the question.
Please tell me how much you agree or disagree with the following statement. Western Canadians should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country.
Western Independence by Gender Male Female All Respondents
Agree
42.7 28.7 35.6
Disagree
57.3 71.3 64.4
Western Independence by Province BC Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba
Agree
32.1 43.0 33.6 28.8
Disagree
67.9 57.0 66.4 71.2
Also the question asked if they should explore forming their own country. So yes it would most likely mean they do not feel in tune with Canada or its system unless they want a Canadian system but their own country? I find that doubtful then because why leave at all and make no changes? It is in no ways a majority of people which is something I never stated yet I don't think it is a small enough issue to be tossed aside. But anyway you don't live here so it isn't really a bother to you.
The rest of your post is the usual rubbish from you so waste of space and time to comment.
Mustang1 @ Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:33 pm
Clogeroo Clogeroo:
Finally you actually post something worth commenting on.
Sorry, all of my posts are worth commenting on, but it isn’t nice your personal endorsement means squat?
$1:
“You're probably right the poll is old and was done by the western standard. How accurate is it? Perhaps not at all. But I have not found any more update ones nor by any other sources. Even if they have lets say the Toronto star made one most would be calling it biased too.”
It was slightly biased. An organ of Western Separation pushed it and the question was deceivingly mealy-mouthed. That was my point. A current independently conducted poll would shed better light on the issue, but I’d wager it would suggest outright political dissolution as a small minority.
$1:
“Here is the full poll just find the link on there and opens a word document with more details. What is surprising is still many were unchanged by sponsorship scandal or other political issues. Whether this means they are unchanged that they still wish to stay with Canada or unchanged in that it did not affect their independence views is unclear.
Also there is quite a large gender gap for the question.
Please tell me how much you agree or disagree with the following statement. Western Canadians should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country.
Western Independence by Gender Male Female All Respondents
Agree
I highly doubt that the Sponsorship Scandal, Ottawa pork-barreling or contemporary partisan politics didn’t play a role. Take post-secondary political science and you’ll find that analysis of polling figures can be quite complex and often making correct assumptions about the statistics can be quite challenging.
No it doesn’t, actually. That’s a follow up question, and you’re making a guess about the original motives. For instance, political dissolution could be because of western alienation, political dissatisfaction with electoral results, voter cynicism, economic windfalls, youthful naivety or an inability to grasp the seriousness of the rather ambiguous question. It doesn’t suggest a full-fledge rejection of the system, but it could be broken down into many issues.
If you possessed even a minute understanding of this nation’s political past, you’d know that separation movements are not unique nor do they translate into full out dissolution. These movements can be regional, economic or cultural, but often they represent a snapshot of some people’s dissatisfaction with something in the system and that’s it – Quebec, of course, would be the exception. I’ll wait until there’s a legitimate Separatist Provincial/Federal party in power – not merely in existence – before this thing is game.
Wrong, Skippy, I live in Canada and Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Alberta and British Columbia are part of Canada. Besides, you’re in the minority, so perhaps your little pipedream isn’t really an issue to the majority of citizens of the West.
Also there is quite a large gender gap for the question.
Please tell me how much you agree or disagree with the following statement. Western Canadians should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country.
Western Independence by Gender Male Female All Respondents
Agree
$1:
42.7 28.7 35.6
Disagree
57.3 71.3 64.4
Western Independence by Province BC Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba
Agree
32.1 43.0 33.6 28.8
Disagree
67.9 57.0 66.4 71.2
“
Disagree
57.3 71.3 64.4
Western Independence by Province BC Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba
Agree
32.1 43.0 33.6 28.8
Disagree
67.9 57.0 66.4 71.2
“
I highly doubt that the Sponsorship Scandal, Ottawa pork-barreling or contemporary partisan politics didn’t play a role. Take post-secondary political science and you’ll find that analysis of polling figures can be quite complex and often making correct assumptions about the statistics can be quite challenging.
$1:
“Also the question asked if they should explore forming their own country. So yes it would most likely mean they do not feel in tune with Canada or its system unless they want a Canadian system but their own country”
No it doesn’t, actually. That’s a follow up question, and you’re making a guess about the original motives. For instance, political dissolution could be because of western alienation, political dissatisfaction with electoral results, voter cynicism, economic windfalls, youthful naivety or an inability to grasp the seriousness of the rather ambiguous question. It doesn’t suggest a full-fledge rejection of the system, but it could be broken down into many issues.
$1:
“It is in no ways a majority of people which is something I never stated yet I don't think it is a small enough issue to be tossed aside”
If you possessed even a minute understanding of this nation’s political past, you’d know that separation movements are not unique nor do they translate into full out dissolution. These movements can be regional, economic or cultural, but often they represent a snapshot of some people’s dissatisfaction with something in the system and that’s it – Quebec, of course, would be the exception. I’ll wait until there’s a legitimate Separatist Provincial/Federal party in power – not merely in existence – before this thing is game.
$1:
“But anyway you don't live here so it isn't really a bother to you.”
Wrong, Skippy, I live in Canada and Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Alberta and British Columbia are part of Canada. Besides, you’re in the minority, so perhaps your little pipedream isn’t really an issue to the majority of citizens of the West.
$1:
“The rest of your post is the usual rubbish from you so waste of space and time to comment.”
And yet you responded! I guess that’s not the case after all – besides, if my prose is such a waste, then how do you explain that last mangled piece of junk? Sorry, Skippy, save the projection for someone else.
Tracker @ Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:36 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Hells to the No.
Each Province is too different from the other. It would just become one big complicated mess. Why else do you think we seperated the NWT???
Combining the four western provinces would jsut become one big ugly mess and would make everyone out there more pissed off than they already are...
Each Province is too different from the other. It would just become one big complicated mess. Why else do you think we seperated the NWT???
Combining the four western provinces would jsut become one big ugly mess and would make everyone out there more pissed off than they already are...
Exacty! I've been on trips to Saskabush and B.C. and they're great Provinces but much different than Alberta. And I think the only way for our Provinces to stay great is to keep them separated.