Why should'nt Alberta seperate?
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Gunbunny @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:26 am
You see the only way that Alberta would seperate would be the same way that Quebec wants to. They want to seperate as a nation under the Canadian Flag. Eccentualy keep all things Canadian (Armed forces, Curancy, etc.) but not give up any money to Canada. As that goes I believe the BQ and the PQ to be traitors to Confederation. The Quebecquois believes that they have the right to seperate when in reality they don't. They need to be reminded of what happened on the Plains of Abraham, between Wolfe and Montcalm. Last time I checked, the history books said that Wolfe won that battle, actualy he kinda wiped the floor with Montcalm.
Seperation is a non-issue for Alberta as long as we are treated like equals. You see, there is this thing that is called Westen Alienation. It's a big play on words. What that realy means is Albertian Alienation. The Liberals are taking interest in Manitoba, Saskachewan, and BC. With that said they wouldn't touch Alberta with a 39 and a half foot pole. Rightfully so, Alberta in this ellection probably wouldn't give them 2 seats. Anne McLelland is in a very tight race in Edmonton. There is the possibility that they won't get one. What we as albertans want is to be RESPECTED. As a matter of fact does anybody know how much we Albertians pay in transfer payments. It is the 2nd highest Amount next to Ontario and we pay close to triple percapita vs. that of Ontario. The Liberals that have been in power for the last 12 years have purposfully overlooked a number of these things. We have on average 130 000 people per riding in Alberta. The number of people that one MP is to be representing is only 88 000 MAX. according to Elections Canada. Now the argument that the ROC has grown and is in the same situation. Well no the are not. Ontario had a change in ridings in the mid 90's as they were Growing. If you take 88 000 away from 130 000 that is 42 000 times that by 24 that is 1 008 000 people, now take that number and divide by 88 000 that equals 11 more ridings that riquire to be put into Alberta. Would that changthigs ore what. that would give Alberta 35 seats in the House of Commons in reality there are a number of Provences that require this kinda change. 33 million people divided by 88 000 equals 375 seats required. We have how MANY?
Lord-Beaverbrook @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:55 am
Tricks Tricks:
Lord-Beaverbrook Lord-Beaverbrook:
Canada isn't just an institution made to help the provinces if they go into economic recessesion. The only parts of Canada that have a valid claim for seperation are the parts that have been donated by European countries i.e. Vimy Ridge. This idea of provincial "nationalism" is foolish, it only segregates our people.
vimy ridge is part of Canada? WTF!?!?!?!?The French donated it to Canada, it's ours.
bootlegga @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:05 am
ziggy ziggy:
Yabut...we hate you,for voting in the Libs all the time. 
Speak for yourself.
There's a large majority in Edmonton who can't stand the Tories, federally or provincially...why do you think the only opposition to the provincial PCs comes from Edmonton and that the only Liberals elected federally come from here too...there's a reason we have the nickname REDMONTON, because to the rest of the province, we are.
I agree that there are plenty of farmers and people living in rural Alberta and the big oil boys in Calgary who hate the Liberals and the East, but Edmonton is far more blue collar and elects those who attempt to help out with society's ills, not those who only care about making zillions of $.
bootlegga @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:11 am
ziggy ziggy:
You have to answer my question first as I made the topic. 
Why should we stay? Why should'nt we leave?
Why should we stay? Why should'nt we leave?
I wonder if Texans asked themselves this while Clinton was in power. I doubt it.
One reason and one reason only. Canada is the best country to live in pure and simple. If that's not good enough for you, I don't know what would be.
bootlegga @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:24 am
ziggy ziggy:
Shoulda known a triple E senate would never wash with the libs,it would stop patronage appointments and we cant have that now can we?
You and the rest of Alberta had a chance for an elected Senate but refused to support the Charlottetown Accords. Almost 60% of Westerners voted against it. The only provinces that voted for it were EASTERN provinces (and the NWT), so as far as I'm concerned, Alberta's partially to blame for not having an elected Senate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottetown_Accord
ziggy @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:45 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
ziggy ziggy:
Shoulda known a triple E senate would never wash with the libs,it would stop patronage appointments and we cant have that now can we?
You and the rest of Alberta had a chance for an elected Senate but refused to support the Charlottetown Accords. Almost 60% of Westerners voted against it. The only provinces that voted for it were EASTERN provinces (and the NWT), so as far as I'm concerned, Alberta's partially to blame for not having an elected Senate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottetown_Accord
Puhleeez.
$1:
The Canadian Senate would have been reformed, although the proposed reform fell short of the "triple-E" (equal, elected and effective) Senate demanded by the western provinces. The accord allowed senators to be elected either in a general election, or by the provincial legislatures. However, the powers of the Senate were reduced, and on matters relating to culture and language, passage of a bill would require a "double majority" -- a majority in the Senate as a whole and a majority of francophone senators.
And from your link.
$1:
While many advocates of the accord acknowledged that it was a compromise and had many flaws, they also felt that without it the country would break apart.
I guess "they" were wrong.
Also from your link BC,the Yukon,and Territories also voted it down,maybe because they stand to lose the most?
VitaminC @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:19 pm
Leave Canada?
Since when has Alberta been PART of Canada. With such a boner for people like Ralph Klein and Stephan Harper, I thought they were Americans for all this time.
Are you telling me that Alberta is thinking about becoming Canadian?
ziggy @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:24 pm
lily lily:
$1:
Also from your link BC,the Yukon,and Territories also voted it down,maybe because they stand to lose the most?
BC and Alberta each have 6 senators, even though we have about a million more people than you do. So... who stands to lose more?
VitaminC @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:25 pm
Having elected senators would give much more power to the electorate (i.e. Ontario and Quebec) and much less power to the smaller provinces. It seems this is exactly what western people are always fighting against.
Elected senators means Ontarian and Quebecois senators....
Tman1 @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:26 pm
VitaminC VitaminC:
Leave Canada?
Since when has Alberta been PART of Canada. With such a boner for people like Ralph Klein and Stephan Harper, I thought they were Americans for all this time.
Are you telling me that Alberta is thinking about becoming Canadian?
Since when has Alberta been PART of Canada. With such a boner for people like Ralph Klein and Stephan Harper, I thought they were Americans for all this time.
Are you telling me that Alberta is thinking about becoming Canadian?
Stephan Harper was born in your glorious Ontario, are you saying that Ontario produce boner for people like Alberta? Ontario was a part of Canada? I thought they were Americans because they produce a boner of a person like Stephen Harper.....
ziggy @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:28 pm
VitaminC VitaminC:
Having elected senators would give much more power to the electorate (i.e. Ontario and Quebec) and much less power to the smaller provinces. It seems this is exactly what western people are always fighting against.
Elected senators means Ontarian and Quebecois senators....
Better elected then appointed,at least it's the people and not the PM making the desicion.
Elected senators means Ontarian and Quebecois senators....
VitaminC @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:33 pm
ziggy ziggy:
VitaminC VitaminC:
Having elected senators would give much more power to the electorate (i.e. Ontario and Quebec) and much less power to the smaller provinces. It seems this is exactly what western people are always fighting against.
Elected senators means Ontarian and Quebecois senators....
Better elected then appointed,at least it's the people and not the PM making the desicion.Elected senators means Ontarian and Quebecois senators....
I agree, but the government has to appease the westerners, and that means not doing anything that would move more power to Ontario.......
camerontech @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:01 pm
ziggy ziggy:
camerontech camerontech:
I'll answer your question Ziggy, I'll give Alberta one good reason.
Because a large portion of the workers in the oil fields, the geologist, the mining engineers, the truck drivers, welders, pipe fitters, cooks..... they come from all over Canada. Alberta has a great economy and is contributing a lot to the rest of Canada, and it could maybe even survive on it's own as a country. But it could of never gotten where it is without the sweat and blood of Albertans, British Columbians, Ontarians, Nova Scotians and the rest of Canadians.
Alberta didn't do it on it's own, just like every other province didn't accomplish their economic success without the help of others accross the country.
That's my one reason, what's your one reason to seperate?
Because a large portion of the workers in the oil fields, the geologist, the mining engineers, the truck drivers, welders, pipe fitters, cooks..... they come from all over Canada. Alberta has a great economy and is contributing a lot to the rest of Canada, and it could maybe even survive on it's own as a country. But it could of never gotten where it is without the sweat and blood of Albertans, British Columbians, Ontarians, Nova Scotians and the rest of Canadians.
Alberta didn't do it on it's own, just like every other province didn't accomplish their economic success without the help of others accross the country.
That's my one reason, what's your one reason to seperate?
The people that come here to work do so because they arent scared to work or accept change,they are of the seemingly rare breed that will actually assume responsibility for their own life instead of expecting the government to look after them.Thats the attitude you need to make it in Alberta. It's very empowering to know you dont have to rely on the government to make it.
$1:
Because a large portion of the workers in the oil fields, the geologist, the mining engineers, the truck drivers, welders, pipe fitters, cooks..... they come from all over Canada.
of the hundreds of geologists I have worked with the last 26 years,all were from Alberta or BC,engineers also.The trucks mostly come from down east as does the pipe and all welding supplies.all this would go south in a heartbeat if Alberta was to seperate.$1:
what's your one reason to seperate
1) Ottawa
2)Eastern socialist thinking
3)NEP and Martin saying it's dead and then threatening Americans with Alberta and it's gas supply to make some sorely needed points on the softwood issue.
4)I could go on and on
But the fact is the ROC all of a sudden has an interest in Alberta because we have cash and like the well deserved stereotype of anything west of Saskatchewan....they want a slice of the pie now.You want a piece of Alberta's financial windfall then come and slog through the clay and the mud and the crud to help make it happen.The oil and gas doesnt just pop out of the ground you know. So the guys I work with mostly are from eastern Canada,I like to think of the one's that stay as real Canadians,some wuss out and just get enough stamps to go back home and live off pogey,I think of it as selection of the fittest,the weak go home to vote lieberal or NDP and hope the govt. will take care of them,the strong stay and make their small fortune.
I'm in school right now taking mining engineering, guess where me and half of my class will be looking for work once we're done school? I know 3 welders and 2 pipe fitters in fort mac from Ontario. I also know of 2 geologist who work in Alberta (although they are in base metal exploration, not oil). Alberta is booming right now, why woulnd't the rest of Canadians want a slice of the pie? Of course the majority of the workers are native Albertans, but that doesn't mean that the rest of Canada isin't slogging through the clay and mud with them
ziggy @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:18 pm
camerontech camerontech:
ziggy ziggy:
camerontech camerontech:
I'll answer your question Ziggy, I'll give Alberta one good reason.
Because a large portion of the workers in the oil fields, the geologist, the mining engineers, the truck drivers, welders, pipe fitters, cooks..... they come from all over Canada. Alberta has a great economy and is contributing a lot to the rest of Canada, and it could maybe even survive on it's own as a country. But it could of never gotten where it is without the sweat and blood of Albertans, British Columbians, Ontarians, Nova Scotians and the rest of Canadians.
Alberta didn't do it on it's own, just like every other province didn't accomplish their economic success without the help of others accross the country.
That's my one reason, what's your one reason to seperate?
Because a large portion of the workers in the oil fields, the geologist, the mining engineers, the truck drivers, welders, pipe fitters, cooks..... they come from all over Canada. Alberta has a great economy and is contributing a lot to the rest of Canada, and it could maybe even survive on it's own as a country. But it could of never gotten where it is without the sweat and blood of Albertans, British Columbians, Ontarians, Nova Scotians and the rest of Canadians.
Alberta didn't do it on it's own, just like every other province didn't accomplish their economic success without the help of others accross the country.
That's my one reason, what's your one reason to seperate?
The people that come here to work do so because they arent scared to work or accept change,they are of the seemingly rare breed that will actually assume responsibility for their own life instead of expecting the government to look after them.Thats the attitude you need to make it in Alberta. It's very empowering to know you dont have to rely on the government to make it.
$1:
Because a large portion of the workers in the oil fields, the geologist, the mining engineers, the truck drivers, welders, pipe fitters, cooks..... they come from all over Canada.
of the hundreds of geologists I have worked with the last 26 years,all were from Alberta or BC,engineers also.The trucks mostly come from down east as does the pipe and all welding supplies.all this would go south in a heartbeat if Alberta was to seperate.$1:
what's your one reason to seperate
1) Ottawa
2)Eastern socialist thinking
3)NEP and Martin saying it's dead and then threatening Americans with Alberta and it's gas supply to make some sorely needed points on the softwood issue.
4)I could go on and on
But the fact is the ROC all of a sudden has an interest in Alberta because we have cash and like the well deserved stereotype of anything west of Saskatchewan....they want a slice of the pie now.You want a piece of Alberta's financial windfall then come and slog through the clay and the mud and the crud to help make it happen.The oil and gas doesnt just pop out of the ground you know. So the guys I work with mostly are from eastern Canada,I like to think of the one's that stay as real Canadians,some wuss out and just get enough stamps to go back home and live off pogey,I think of it as selection of the fittest,the weak go home to vote lieberal or NDP and hope the govt. will take care of them,the strong stay and make their small fortune.
I'm in school right now taking mining engineering, guess where me and half of my class will be looking for work once we're done school? I know 3 welders and 2 pipe fitters in fort mac from Ontario. I also know of 2 geologist who work in Alberta (although they are in base metal exploration, not oil). Alberta is booming right now, why woulnd't the rest of Canadians want a slice of the pie? Of course the majority of the workers are native Albertans, but that doesn't mean that the rest of Canada isin't slogging through the clay and mud with them
Bring em on! The majority of the workers are NOT native Albertans but folks from all over Canada and I love it,maybe you mis-understood me,my version of Canada is hard working people that are willing to go wherever to work and not rely on the public teat.(transfer payments)
You want contacts for mining engineering jobs in BC? Just ask me,I'll set you up,want a welding job? I'll get it for you tommorrow at minimum $80.00/hr,full supply and sub.I dont mind helping out those that want to help themselves through hard work but I draw the line on the folks that think Alberta owes them because were prosperous now.
Serious about the job help though,just PM me for e-mail addys and links to ver good paying jobs.Engineers should go to fort Mac,where the average salary is between $80.000 and $90.000/year.
I imagine an engineer would clear about 2 grand easy/year.
Skilled trades on the Horizon project will make minimum $36.00/hour.
Welders with B pressure tickets will bring home $1500.00/day anywhere minimum.
Come ride the boom.
Jaime_Souviens @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:26 pm
But if all the hard-working people go to Alberta, then only non-hard-working people will be in the other provinces,...
and then more Equalization payments.
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