Why should'nt Alberta seperate?
ziggy @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:52 pm
IcedCap IcedCap:
ziggy ziggy:
If you didnt denounce it then you would be one of those 29,000,000 people.
So if I made my sig "Iced cap can just blow me".....that wouldnt bother you?
so now if you don't publicly denounce something then you automatically support it
well I must be a supporter of...
child labour,
bestiality,
holocaust deniers,
incest,
the seal hunt,
mass murder
etc etc
Your words bud,not mine.
DerbyX @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:55 pm
ziggy ziggy:
DerbyX DerbyX:
ziggy ziggy:
DerbyX DerbyX:
ziggy ziggy:
IcedCap IcedCap:
ziggy ziggy:
King Ralph is against seperation.
you know ziggy the only argument you've given so far for Alberta separating is that Liberals keep getting elected from Ontario
See,that's where your wrong.If the Libs were honest they may have some support here. We may not have much pull here but we can still pull some strings.
No. The province has never voted the Liberals in. Between 1972 and 1993 not a single Liberal was elected. You have to go back to 1940 to even find a time when the Libs tied the Social Credit party in a federal election. Alberta has never ever supported a Liberal gov't and it is no wonder you are always dissatisfied with the federal gov't because none of the MPs you elect ever sit in the governing party and when they do (the PC) you simply divorce yourselves from all their flaws. Anti-Liberal hatred in Alberta is almost standard thinking. BTW, if your response is "All libs are crooks and always have" you might as well be holding the opinion that "all blacks are crooks". It isn't all that different.
All libs arent crooks but if you support a party run by crooks then are you not supporting the crooks?
I don't consider the party to be crooks. Many Albertans have used king Ralphs record on the economy as almost the sole reason to keep supporting him. The same goes for much support for the Libs. They have done extremely well budget/economy wise.
Derby,Google him and corruption,see what you find.Dont try Martin though,the massive input of scams may crash your computer.
Google who? Scott Reid? Just because you cons list things like the "gun registry" as a scandal doesn't mean it is one. Just because Martin is linked to every "Liberal scandal" for no other reason then being the leader of that party doesn't mean he's guilty of them all. Are all cons in Alberta alcoholics because Klein was?
Martin was cleared in Gomery, the same report that Harper mentions every other sentence. It seems to me that any possibel report or opinion that doesn't mirror the obsessive con position that "all Liberals are corrupt" is simply dismissed as lies and "part of the corruption".
That is the same tactic used by creationists who dismiss any and all science that supports "their view" while holding up even crackpot science for no other reason then it supports their beliefs.
If you can't trust gomery to clear PMPM then how can you trust it to condemn anyone either?
ziggy ziggy:
Your words bud,not mine.
C'mon zig you know what I mean... if I went around denouncing everything I disagreed with I wouldn't have time to breath. A comment by one Liberal idiot is hardly evidence that the rest of Canada hates Alberta
ziggy @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:01 pm
$1:
Liberals are corrupt
That pretty well says it all. Your vote for the Lieberals and your voting for the corrruption, why is that so hard for some to understand?
ziggy @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:03 pm
IcedCap IcedCap:
ziggy ziggy:
Your words bud,not mine.
C'mon zig you know what I mean... if I went around denouncing everything I disagreed with I wouldn't have time to breath. A comment by one Liberal idiot is hardly evidence that the rest of Canada hates Alberta
That was just one used as an example.
DerbyX @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:05 pm
ziggy ziggy:
$1:
Liberals are corrupt
That pretty well says it all. Your vote for the Lieberals and your voting for the corrruption, why is that so hard for some to understand?
Why is it so hard for cons to understand that we don't believe they are corrupt?
ziggy @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:07 pm
DerbyX DerbyX:
ziggy ziggy:
$1:
Liberals are corrupt
That pretty well says it all. Your vote for the Lieberals and your voting for the corrruption, why is that so hard for some to understand?
Why is it so hard for cons to understand that we don't believe they are corrupt?
Why dont you give them a chance?
DerbyX @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:21 pm
ziggy ziggy:
DerbyX DerbyX:
ziggy ziggy:
$1:
Liberals are corrupt
That pretty well says it all. Your vote for the Lieberals and your voting for the corrruption, why is that so hard for some to understand?
Why is it so hard for cons to understand that we don't believe they are corrupt?
Why dont you give them a chance?
I spent the last 6 months trying to find even a single con on this forum with a reason to do that beyond screaming "all Liberals are crooks" and the closest I came was TheGup chiding Ridenrain that "calling them all crooks won't convince people to vote CPC. The last month has convinced me that basing your entire platform on "all Libs are corrupt" shows you cannot be trusted to govern effectively. I won't vote for Harper because he is not the man for the job and I can't vote NDP because they are far to socialist.
I have also said time and time again that the best possible government is where the Libs and Cons actually work togeather. The truth is that the CPC will not win a majority and will very likely not win a minority. The fact is that all Canadians are being betrayed by their political parties and political system. When the votes are counted it is time for those elected to stop fighting and stat governing. Too often the opposition party thinks its their sole job to oppose the government on everything. The truth is that as the party with the second most votes it is their job to work with the governing party to get part of their platform implemented. Harper failed to do that and had the Libs and Cons worked togeather we would have a huge # of satisfied Canadians.
Derby, you said this in one of your posts
$1:
Why is it so hard for cons to understand that we don't believe they are corrupt?
I would agree that all Liberal are not corrupt, but the old saying...one bad apple etc.
Even the Liberal supporters on this forum would have to acknowledge there has been corruption in this government.
DerbyX @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:56 pm
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Derby, you said this in one of your posts
$1:
Why is it so hard for cons to understand that we don't believe they are corrupt?
I would agree that all Liberal are not corrupt, but the old saying...one bad apple etc.
Even the Liberal supporters on this forum would have to acknowledge there has been corruption in this government.
The same goes for the CPC and their alliance members. Do the views and actions of the alliance memebers represent the entire CPC party?
TheGup @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:26 pm
Corruption, in my opinion, is only the tip of the iceburg.
The thing that really gets my goat with the Liberals is the fact that every election they promise goodies, and once elected, you never hear of them again.
Also, the chronic attacks on the Conservatives are tiring. When they attack the Conservatives, it's "simply the truth". When Conservatives strike back it's "Mr Harper is angry and unfit to govern the country."
Mr Harper has been announcing a policy every day now, and Mr Martin is still insisting Mr Harper's campaign is being run on attacks.
Also, if any party at all is in power for more than 10 years, it breeds corruption. The halls are plagued with Liberals right now. We need more of a healthy mix.
But speaking about the original topic...
Why shouldn't Alberta seperate? I can give several good reasons:
1) This raises the problem of "Why shouldn't Ontario seperate? Why shouldn't Saskatchewan seperate?" Both are have provinces, but I don't see an Ontario Seperatist Party, nor a Saskatchewan one.
2) It's quitting. You're not impressed with this country? Alright! Let's throw in the towel! How about you fight to make change? And not just screaming LIEBERAL or FIBERAL. Convince people why there needs to be a change in government. What if a part of Alberta became socialist? Would you want to seperate from them as well?
3) You are a Canadian. I am a Canadian. I am not an Torontonian, nor am I an Ontarian. I am proud of this country and it's many accomplishments. In order for Canada to lead the charge into the 21st century, we do not need only Alberta, but all of our provinces working together with each other and the federal government to see even higher levels of prosperity.
Tman1 @ Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:29 pm
Nice one. I would think those are reasons enough.
Why shouldn't Alberta seperate?
1. Our surplus is already so large the Government of Alberta can't figure out how to spend it fast enough. With an additional $30+ billion (what we 'contribute' to the rest of this sad sack of a country) we would only add to their dilemna. Better we should give it to the federal Liberals to maintain the welfare state that thinks it owes it's existence to Ottawa's largesse. And hell, when it comes to spending other people's money, Liberals will always be the acknowledged experts.
2. At the rate the Alberta economy keeps expanding, in another 5 years we can just BUY THE REST OF CANADA. I'm personally waiting for the day that the Niagara escarpment is moved into the North Saskatchewan River valley. Hot dang, no more cheesy fake waterfall from the High Level Bridge on Canada Day!
3. Without the fags in B.C., the dirt farmers in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, the self-righteous mediocrity that is Ontario, the whining racists losers in Quebec or the perennial welfare bums in the Maritimes, who would we have to look down on. Oh sure, there'll always be Calgarians,... but it's just not the same.
I'll answer your question Ziggy, I'll give Alberta one good reason.
Because a large portion of the workers in the oil fields, the geologist, the mining engineers, the truck drivers, welders, pipe fitters, cooks..... they come from all over Canada. Alberta has a great economy and is contributing a lot to the rest of Canada, and it could maybe even survive on it's own as a country. But it could of never gotten where it is without the sweat and blood of Albertans, British Columbians, Ontarians, Nova Scotians and the rest of Canadians.
Alberta didn't do it on it's own, just like every other province didn't accomplish their economic success without the help of others accross the country.
That's my one reason, what's your one reason to seperate?
ziggy @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:55 am
camerontech camerontech:
I'll answer your question Ziggy, I'll give Alberta one good reason.
Because a large portion of the workers in the oil fields, the geologist, the mining engineers, the truck drivers, welders, pipe fitters, cooks..... they come from all over Canada. Alberta has a great economy and is contributing a lot to the rest of Canada, and it could maybe even survive on it's own as a country. But it could of never gotten where it is without the sweat and blood of Albertans, British Columbians, Ontarians, Nova Scotians and the rest of Canadians.
Alberta didn't do it on it's own, just like every other province didn't accomplish their economic success without the help of others accross the country.
That's my one reason, what's your one reason to seperate?
The people that come here to work do so because they arent scared to work or accept change,they are of the seemingly rare breed that will actually assume responsibility for their own life instead of expecting the government to look after them.Thats the attitude you need to make it in Alberta. It's very empowering to know you dont have to rely on the government to make it.
$1:
Because a large portion of the workers in the oil fields, the geologist, the mining engineers, the truck drivers, welders, pipe fitters, cooks..... they come from all over Canada.
of the hundreds of geologists I have worked with the last 26 years,all were from Alberta or BC,engineers also.The trucks mostly come from down east as does the pipe and all welding supplies.all this would go south in a heartbeat if Alberta was to seperate.
$1:
what's your one reason to seperate
1) Ottawa
2)Eastern socialist thinking
3)NEP and Martin saying it's dead and then threatening Americans with Alberta and it's gas supply to make some sorely needed points on the softwood issue.
4)I could go on and on
But the fact is the ROC all of a sudden has an interest in Alberta because we have cash and like the well deserved stereotype of anything west of Saskatchewan....they want a slice of the pie now.You want a piece of Alberta's financial windfall then come and slog through the clay and the mud and the crud to help make it happen.The oil and gas doesnt just pop out of the ground you know. So the guys I work with mostly are from eastern Canada,I like to think of the one's that stay as real Canadians,some wuss out and just get enough stamps to go back home and live off pogey,I think of it as selection of the fittest,the weak go home to vote lieberal or NDP and hope the govt. will take care of them,the strong stay and make their small fortune.