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Oh and another thing. A girl decided in the middle of one of our busiest rushes to close her till and refuse to work. Was she fired? No. Was she penalized? No. If I did that, would I have been fired? On the spot. 90% of the guys would have been shown the door. But nope. Nothing. For fucks sake, I was written up for going on break when there was two people let in late for a movie.

   

3 points I would like to make:

1. The governemtn is reaching a point where it has done all it can to prevent sexism.

2. Thegovernment should not be funding lobby groups. In a democracy lobby groups are funded from the grassroots, and lobby the government, not the governemnt to bring about governemtn positions.

3. While there is prejudice int he workpalce, and effort are needed to dispel them there are also misconceptions of men being limited inthe home, and of bieng more violent. This view can have negative implications in custody cases as well as domestic disputetes. this is an area where the government can improve.

   

Yeah, pretty much. I'm aware that self-restraint also is a responsibility on behalf of the people making the comments, but lets be realistic, the women cannot prance around mostly naked in a room full of men, purposely dress in skimpy underclothes, and expect it to be unnoticed. If they didn't like the comments, they easily could've taken it upon themselves to behave in a more respectable, and more professional manner. They know the change room is mostly men. They know the situation they're getting themselves into, stop playing the defenseless little female that's free of all guilt and accept some damned responsibility for their own part in this.




Lily in feeling as if the job is done, I'm not simply disregarding what has been accomplished. I'm not unaware of what all they did for us at all, I'm very aware of it. Yes there is probably stuff that can still be done, but I disagree that it needs to be dealt with in an extremist manner, by extremists. If on individual levels women are unhappy with their work, we have the voice & we have the power now to do something about it. Sitting & bitching isn't doing anything. Change jobs, or report the issue to the higher powers, and if necessary, report the issue to people outside of the company. Crying "woe is me" and doing nothing, doesn't fix the problem either.

Sexual harassment in SOME cases isn't about women inviting comments. In many cases, I agree 100%. I do however, think that there are also SOME women out there, who DO invite comments. You can't dress like a hooker, and expect to be treated like a lady.

   

Lily there's a vast difference between dressing nice, and dressing slutty.

   

Wow, you could be an Australian Cleric. Some girls who dress slutty are experimenting, some don't want to be talked to by like a lady, and some might wear the t-shirt "Just because I'm a slut doesn't mean I'll sleep with you" ouch.

If only the gay boys took to such reasoning. He was wearing a tank top, I could just tell he wanted it. Nope, not going to fly. Want to have sex? get consent. A bikini does not signify consent.

   

Your reasoning might work except your examples are lacking.

If girls who are wearing t-shirts and self-proclaiming themselves sluts, they have little respect for themselves and can hardly cry unfair when they get treated like a slut.

I never said bikini's signified consent. However, if you're 14 years old with breasts just popping out of your chest and you're running around in hooker boots and booty shorts where half your ass hangs out (No, not just short shorts, I mean booty shorts where half your ass really IS hanging out) and a bikini top or some other fragile excuse for clothing, and you get spoken to with disrespect, and you get treated with disrespect, then my point is that they can't really place the entire blame on the other party. The disrespect began with themselves.

Yes, some girls are just experimenting and some quickly learn that isn't the way they want to be seen. I see 12/13/14 year olds walking around here, wearing stiletto boots, miniskirts (and I mean *MINI*) and crop tops with their bellies hanging out & these miniskirts aren't even like the 80's miniskirts, these are mini on the leg & mini on the hips. I quite literally have underwear which covers more than these skirts do.

Am I saying "all the blame rests with the victims" no, not by a long shot. However, like I said before, common sense should prevail. If a woman makes herself an easy target for lewd remarks and sexual harassment, common sense should speak to reason, and she should realize that if she dressed less slutty, she'd get treated with more respect. We don't live in the age of ignorance. If a woman is working late & its dark outside & her car is parked on the far side of a dimly lit underground parking lot, is she to blame if she gets attacked? No, but YES there are preventative methods available in most of these instances, to keep stuff like this from happening. Ie, have a security guard escort you to your car.

   

Basically you reap what you sow.

If you disrespect yourself, and show it through your own method of dress, you cannot expect respect from others.

If you ignore common sense for dangerous situations, then yes you ARE partially at fault for the fact that it even happened and YES there WERE ways that you could've prevented it from happening, in many instances.

Women want "equal status" except they want to hang onto their "vulnerable" female helpless status at the same time? I don't think so. Physically we are no match for most men, that is fact. Mentally we could be equal if we'd stop placing ALL the blame elsewhere & started using our brains and common sense.

   

I never said it excuses the man, nor did I say that unlocked doors "give the right"

What I AM saying though, is more women out there need to use their damned brains. They can't seriously wonder, "Why am I being treated like a whore?" when they dress like one everyday. Locking a door after yourself when you get home if you live by yourself, only takes about 2 seconds and makes you a LOT less of a target than the woman who leaves the door unlocked, while she's in the shower. THIS is what I'm saying.

There are still factors that women can do, as preventative methods.

I also never said that these things applied to every single situation out there.

   

Well, I couldn't dissagree with you more. I have a great deal of respect for women with healthy sexualities and the strength to be themselves... that is respect. That doesn't mean that they want to be abused or that every lad is in their market. Raping a slut doesn't mean that you're man enough to deserve her.


Again sorry, this does not signify disrepect on the part of the girls or the apropriatness of a fifty year old man to offer his services.


Hence the reason for thigh high boots. Again, Fluevogs rock... good BC company too.


The reality you speak of is real, if unfortunate. A woman can't walk safely to her car at night regardless of what she's wearing. That's not right. Knowing how to defend oneself, present a strong exterior that doesn't scream victim, and a bit of common sense is something every little girl should be taught. It's unfortunate that so few are. A floral print dress and a strong man is no way to go through life.

   

Right on!

That's the kind of no nonsense approach that women have traditionally envied of men.

I would be as insulted as Persiana if some group of extremist poofters started clamouring for tax dollars to advance the cause of how they believe all men SHOULD think, act and be perceived.

What a terrible waste of stolen money.

   

I too have a great deal of respect for women who have healthy sexualities and the strength to be themselves. There IS a difference, however, between a woman with a healthy sexuality, and a woman who is insecure & needy for attention, and dresses herself in a manner that ensures she gets the attention whether its positive or negative. I don't know what kind of world you might live in, but where I live "slut" is not a complimentary term.



I suppose it depends on the individual, really. There's the girls who are simply too young & ignorant, and rather unfortunately have parents who simply don't care... they usually grow into young adults who also don't care, it has a rather snowball effect. There's also the 'rebels' ...the girls who do come from perfectly good homes, who rebel against their parents morals and do so by being as scantily clad as they can without getting arrested for public indecency. Women and girls who dress "nicely" are fine. Women and girls who dress "slutty" and "Skanky" are not so fine. I do not look at them & think "Wow, they look fine!" although you as a male perhaps are doing so without even realizing how shockingly low these girls self-esteem truly is. Healthy sexuality does not mean that they have to sleep with everybody who pays them a compliment, nor does "slut" equal healthy sexuality. A girl who wears a "slut" t-shirt and takes a 50 year old guy up on his offers, isn't healthy. I rather prefer the girls who can actually realize the inappropriateness of the fifty year old man offering his services that you mentioned, than the ones who don't. Both types of girls exist but when they dress the same way, how is the 50 year old guy supposed to be able to tell them apart? Get it yet? Its a learning curve. 50 year old guy has probably learned that he has better luck with skanks than classy women, so those are the ones he offers his services to.



Can't say that I agree with thigh high boots giving off a positive image either. In my opinion the girls wearing the knee high boots & mini skirts look like experimenting children, and the ones wearing thigh high boots & mini skirts have decided to become the sluts they look like.



The woman walking to her car at night was supposed to be a seperate example, to show that women DO have choices in how they are treated. How they present themselves to the world at large, has a huge impact on how they are treated. How they take care with their own person, has an impact on how they are treated. You're more likely to get respect from those around you if you have an appearance that shows that you have respect for yourself, than if you have an appearance that shows you have low self-esteem, and no self-respect. You're less likely to get attacked if you take a security guard with you, than if you do not. Women have these choices, but rather unfortunately common sense does not prevail. I am not suggesting that they rely on men entirely. Just that they use their brains.

   

"First impressions are everything..."

   

You managed to put it into so many -fewer- words than I was. Thanks!

   

You've both taken this to the extreme to defend a position. Nowhere has she advocated rape.

She has made it pretty clear that how you dress and conduct yourself, right or wrong, is how others will/should treat you.

If you want to dress up and act like a lesser-valued member of society such as a biker, pimp, homeless person, liberal or drug pusher you should be prepared to deal with the negative perceptions you deliberately are trying to solicit.

   

Again, thank you!

   

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