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In quite a few posts before GrainfedPrairieBoy pointed out that nowhere was I doing so.

When I argued that women should take control of their own lives, and you argued that you'd never accept responsibility for another's criminal actions.

Etc.

Semantics I suppose, but it was definitely implied.

   

Even if I were to go back and look now, I must say it would leave me mildly baffled as to why you would take that stance, and then argue against my own which really was the same as yours, if only differently worded.

And you said I flip flopped?

   

Hmmm, no I wouldn't say that I was wrong, because I still think that women need to start accepting responsibility for their own part in things, and by that I do mean their own actions and how they place themselves in situations, and how they create an image for the public to perceive.

I think every woman that gets attacked, should think about what steps possibly could have been taken, to prevent that from happening. It wont' help in every instance, but yes there are still far too many women walking unescorted to their cars, etc.

   

Quotes from Lily Page 2:

I did not say that. I also pointed out a difference between 'nice' and 'slutty' and appearances DO have an effect on how you are treated. This doesn't excuse the behavior of the other individual, but it doesn't mean you can dress like a slut & expect respect either.



Perhaps because women are continuously claiming innocence, when they are anything but. If they accepted more responsibility for their own actions.... I never disputed that the guys are responsible for their behavior, but when are the women going to be responsible for THEIR behavior?



Again, in all of my arguments, nowhere did I imply that a woman's clothing "excused" a man. Merely that she should perhaps look at dressing more appropriately. Nor did I say that unlocked doors gave the "right" ...just that if the woman had LOCKED the door, it likely wouldn't have happened.

Quotes from Lily Page 3:


Again, nowhere have I stated in ANY of my posts that sluts deserve to be raped. Merely that they should take responsibility for their own presentation & take control of their own situations.



Again, nowhere did I say that men had the right to rape/assault, merely that women need to accept responsibility for THEIR behavior & choices.



--Again, I am not excusing her rapist, although you are implying yet AGAIN that I am.



--Really? Where have I said that the women is ENTIRELY to blame? I am not excusing the rapist, merely pointing out that women need to take control.

   

Basically you took my words where I stated that women who end up in these situations, need to learn from it and take control of their own destinies, and women DO have that option to PREVENT these situations from coming up... and twisted them into me 'excusing rapists' and indirectly advocating rape

For fucks sake, a woman taking partial blame for not having enough care for her own safety, isn't "excusing" the rapist.

Re-read my posts Lily, if YOU can point out where I EXCUSED the rapist as you have made mention of several times as pointed out above, please do quote me.

   

Most of those jobs are absolute crap jobs, the kind I made sure and left behind me by the time I was 30. I don't think that there is going to be a whole lot of fighting about those. In the US, it's hard to find anyone but illegal immigrants who are willing to do many of them. When I needed carpentry work and labour done on my property, I ended up with a 100% Mexican workforce. But jobs like that won't give women equal pay anyhow, and all the more physical factory jobs have been shipped overseas. Steel workers, auto workers? Gotta move to Asia for those jobs, so they sure aren't skewing the pay stats in North America.

How about a couple of women I know who grew up wanting to be astronauts? It doesn't take anything special in the way of strength, but it does take a background as a combat pilot. When was the last time you heard about women flying combat missions? Never, of course, the guys in charge wouldn't stand for it. The younger of the two is in her 20s, so I'm not talking about some distant past. And both were anything but radical feminists. So I'm not buying it. It's real life, arbitrary discrimination, and it's happening right now.

I'm really sorry that you seem to project your own low aspirations onto all women. My wife and my daughter are both scientists too, and there isn't a reason in the world why they should let themselves be treated, in their careers, as less than my equal. Men and women may have their differences, but at work they are as just good as I am, and have every right to be treated as such. Fuck pounding nails. Fuck chopping down trees. I'm talking about jobs like mine, which pay 6 figures and require enough strength to move a mouse. Hell yes, I know women who want jobs like mine, and some of them would be damned good at them.

So to Status of Women I will bid a farewell until the next election.

   

What is their most important program to you? I've glanced at their site but am really not familiar with their work.

I think that women have made great strides. I know that there is still discrimination but I think they've gotten beyond the hump in absolute terms. I believe women are already surpassing men. Look at University rates. If there's further investment, I would want it from the perspective of pushing the cream higher rather than shoring up inequalities.

I've had lots of go arounds with the GF on this one (she's significantly smarter than me...). One view that reoccurs is that women pay a disproportionate amount of child rearing costs. Though men and women can take mat. leave in Canada, women are still the ones that get have the little one and, hopefully, provide breast milk. Even if the Woman pumps it's still an added work load and duty that can interfere with her job. I could ramble on. The basic point is that many women have a hard time advancing because they're on the mommy track trying to raise societies next generation as well as do the CEO thing.

As an aside. My preschool coop has a number of these stay at home CEOs. Yikes these can be scary women.

   

They seem to have shifted what they did over time, depending on need. In the old days, they tried to represent all women, but for a couple of decades or so, they have narrowed their scope to pay increasing attention to those who were getting the worst of things. Helping single moms; women from traditionally sexist ethnicities (like their campaign against sharia); trying to cut down violence against sex workers; trying to get help for the wives and kids of exploitative polygamists, rather than just imprisoning the husbands and forgetting about it. Those were the sorts of things I noticed and appreciated. Trying to stick up for those who were having a pretty rough time, who nobody else was speaking for.

Of course, if they were the hardcore feminazis some would portray them as, they would have espoused crucifying polygamist husbands, etc. -- which they have not done. They have worked through most recent issues in a fairly even-handed way from what I've seen.

If someone can point to a few really obviously stupid things they've proposed in the last decade, I'd be all ears, but something tells me that information won't be forthcoming. Seems like it's just lining up on a knee-jerk political basis -- I've yet to find anyone who strongly opposed them who could tell me what they'd done in the last decade. A number of commentators predicted their political doom the moment they passed up the opportunity to categorically condemn polygamy, and from what we've been seeing, that prediction seems to be coming true.

They failed to follow anyone's party line. Oh, the horror.

   

I think this thread is a monument right now. 95 posts with relatively no flaming. I think we have made a break through.

   

While these are areas of concern I think other bodies of government such as the school system and justice system can deal with the bulk of them, with SOW opperating privatly.

The problem I have is there in not a Status of Men. In areas such as divorce women are often granted custody, but a more serious issue is the RCMP policy on domestic violence presumes the man is the perpetrator of the violence, and the woman the victim, which is far too often not the case.

   

I have far from low aspirations, but I'm going to stand on my own two feet to reach my goal instead of falling back onto some government funded group to tow my line for me. Get it?

Nowhere have I said that women should let themselves be treated in their careers as less than the equal of a male either. Merely that each woman has the right to take control of her own destiny & through her own choices & actions, she can go anywhere she chooses. We don't need a group that gets billions yearly, to speak on our behalf.

As far as your friend who wants to be an astronaut, if she's assuming that the "men in charge wouldn't stand for it" then she's sorely mistaken.

Google "Female Combat Pilots" and you'll come up with quite a bit of history about the first females to fly, and when they were acknowledged as combat pilots which was -....1993! In fact, this link http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/pilots.html gives you quite a detailed timeline of the history of women & combat aircraft, right up until 2004. Names, pictures, and everything. In MY opinion, it is people like YOU who run on assumptions that women are being held back, that cause more harm.

http://womenshistory.about.com/od/aviat ... _space.htm Here's another link about women in space. The goal your friend has is NOT unachievable and shame on you for assuming that the "Men in charge" would never allow such a thing.

   

Lily,

Its apparent from your reply, that you fail to realize that in all your statements, that I have NOWHERE said that the man is excused. NOWHERE. Merely that women need to realize they can have control over their own lives, through the choices they make. If a woman gets raped in a deserted parking lot, I'm sorry but this is NOT the age of ignorance. People are not unaware that situations like this come up and people DO have the choices there available to them, to take a security guard for a degree of protection. To NOT do so, is idiocy and DELIBERATELY putting onesself in danger. And yes, the women need to realize that. I am not saying "Its the womans fault she got attacked" NOWHERE. I -AM- saying "Its the woman's fault she put herself in a vulnerable position, where this could happen to her" and yes, it is her fault in that regard.

As far as the quote that was originally USCAdad's, you also emphatically agreed with it in another post of yours, it was another case where you were trying to take my own words & twist them to make it look like I was excusing the rapist.

   

I was watching a story on CNN on how some women are overwieght because they have a fear of looking to attractive, I think that is a concern.

   

wow, thats unlike harper's conservatives to try to strip peoples rights!

   

You can read my position on the whole thing by goin to

www.torycanuckistani.blogspot.com[hr]

   

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