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The EXACT same job.



More a statement on how union wages cause more companies to lose money and eventually close up shop.



The bold in your quote describes to a T most unions and their workers. Saving a nickel applies to approximately 100% of the population, especially these days.

   

Save for the fact that I'm not in a union. Nice try though.

You might want to have a look at this post

http://www.canadaka.net/forums/post1527784#p1527784

and answer which you think came first. The dynamic at present is "death by a thousand cuts" and sooner or later, nobody's going to have enough money to purchase anything at Walmart because the middle-class jobs that supported them have been of-shored. If you're making a consumer product and your employees can't afford the product you make, you're going to hit the wall sooner or later.

   

Now where exactly did I say you were union in my post?

Unions have done more to raise the cost of living in the last decade than almost anything else. No skill workers on assembly lines making $40/hr and up have driven the cost of vehicle ownership thru the roof.

You claim to not be union but you have argued throughout this thread about evil corporations and business owners that it was understandable that I confused you with the socialist paradise union types.

   

What rarely gets' mentioned is the REAL dollar/hr amount they get paid. For example, the workers at GM made $77/hr when you include benefits, pensions and the rest of their goodies. Their counterparts at Toyota Canada make about $30/hr less and yet they manage to live quite well, own nice homes and drive new cars.
Like I said, most major national and provincial unions are corporate entities unto themselves and their bottom line is directly linked to how much they can force companies(or the taxpayers in the case of OPSEU and CUPE) to pay their members.
To go back to the autoworkers that the CAW represents in Canada. I mentioned the union collects dues to the tune of $984,000/wk. That works out to $51.1 million/yr JUST from the auto workers. I'm seriously doubting that they are getting $51,000,000 worth of representation. When you factor in the other sectors they "represent" that figure could easily come close to $100,000,000 every year.

Nahhhh the CAW isn't the least bit capaitalist.

   

$77/hr?

Thats a T4 slip with $154,000 on it.

I call BS

   

Don't waste your breath, "GM has calculated that a Canadian autoworker gets $77.75 an hour, compared with $47.50 an hour for workers at the Japanese plants in the U.S, the Globe and Mail reported Friday."

Not all benefits are taxable ya know Apparently you forgot to read the qualifier in that statement.

   

Guys we just went over this on the other union thread and that "fact" has been misreported. GM never said it PAYS $77 per hour, it said its labour and personnel costs are $77 for every hour in production for both ACTIVE AN RETIRED personel. That includes topping up its almost insolvent pension plan because it hasn't been properly funding the plan while workers were working since gov't relaxed the regulations for plan funding. And the North American automakers are much older and bigger than japanese counterparts so they have more retirees to look after.

Second, that figure is GMS own estimate and it is disputed because it includes alot of questionable assumptions, like costs when workers are on layoff, which is like using the worker's own unemployment against them.

Seriously, if you think autoworkers make over $150 g a year EACH, you've never lived in a town with an autoplant and can't possibly have an understanding of anything related to this issue. That would put them among the wealthiest 10% of society and as well paid as a family doctor or junior business executive. JESUS, no wonder you think they're overpaid!

   

This is the biggest lie though. Average hourly wages have been STAGNANT for 30 YEARS!!!!!! Corporate Profits have SKYROCKETED!!!! The economy has DOULBED since 1989!!!!


The pie is getting bigger but the size of the 'slice' going to employee has stayed the same or even shrunk. The line that wages are causing companies to lose money is a total lie. Employers are just forced take MORE from wages and from their own long-term investment to pay out to greedy and indiferent global hedge funds, investement banks, private equity firms and other financial owners who demand constantly high short-term rewards and who now control the economy from behind the scenes.

   

in my small company, the wages that go towards the accountant is not looked as part of my salary. even if a portion of her time each month is spent on doing my paycheque.

I'll bet that GM's $77 figure is full of BS items like the payroll clerk.

Probably even the coffee bill, too. It costs my boss maybe $15 per month to provide us coffee. I'll bet some bean counter at GM craps himself every month when he sees the coffee bill in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. He won't ever mention to you that the average cost of coffee per employee is probably rediculously low compared to my employer.

   

It is actually that they can't do anything about it. They do just enough work so that they don't get fired. That's all. As an added note, yeah middle management is also retarded, but it wouldn't make a difference.

   

And what's your point?

Are workers making a good living? Yes

Some jerk-off is making $25/hour making soap. Poor guy

Stop worrying about what the corporations make! I know it's a major shock to most pro-union people, but business actually like to make money, it's actually why they run a business in the first place!

   

Wow! You always this dense? What part of 'wages stagnant for a generation' doesn't compute as being a bad thing in your reality? What part of 'wealth increase disproportionately focused on wealthy minority' doesn't compute in your reality? What's your malfunction, numb nuts?



Comparatively worse than a generation ago. Each generation's supposed to see an improvement in its situation. I guess that's not supposed to apply any more and everyone you disdain's supposed to just shrug and accept it as a proclamation from on high.



Again, you haven't a fucking clue exactly what the "jerk-off" did. You just seem to have a reflexive dislike of unions and obviously have this visceral need to spew bile at unions and anyone who has the temerity to contradict your opinion. Hope that boulder coming your direction doesn't catch up to you.

   

OnTheIce, stop shifting your arugment back and forth. You say "wages are driving down profits and forcing employers to leave." I show you that they are not eating into profits. You then say "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain and stop worrying what the corporations make!"

The second argument shift of yours is when you switch from calling workers overpaid and deserving of massive pay cuts to "some jerk off is making $25 an hour poor guy," as if your're satisfied with their existing pay pay and only concerned about excessive pay raises (again, which haven't happened in 30 years). $25 an hour is adequate for a single earner in Toronto if they don't have kids, nobody is saying its not. The problem is that the equity group that bought the employer wants to TAKE BACK that $25 an hour and pay something significantly less for no other reason than to realize more profits for their investment through "workplace austerity" measures.


My last post is releveant because driving down wages and closing factories is always done under the excuse that coroporations "cant afford" to pay their workers such "increasing costs".

SO to recap YET AGAIN

1)WAGES ARE NOT INCREASING, often not even with inflation

2)ACTIVE LABOUR COSTS ARE SHRINKING relative to profits.

SO....employers are more than capable of remaining here and paying first-world wages to their employees and turing a healthy profit. THAT IS THE RELEVANT ARGUMENT and I will pay attention to the man behind the curtain, thank you very much.

   

How about 30 packing sugar? AKA, doing pretty much nothing.

   

Seriously, if you bothered reading my entire posts and quit picking and choosing phrases, you'd see I've said NUMEROUS times I lived and grew up in Windsor. Nope, no auto plants there Let me guess, you lived in a city with a GM plant so that makes you an expert? I also worked for Rev.Can. so I also understand the meaning of NON-TAXABLE BENEFITS!!! However T4-wise, your average CAW auto worker makes around 60K/yr. When I mentioned the $77/hr I was referring to the total hourly labour costs. I should have phrased it better.

ASLPLease: Your coffee "theory" is nothing short of retarded. You have no clue and that just added nothing to the debate.

I also notice that none of you pro-union types have any desire to point out, or even SEE the shortcomings of the large uinions. Corporations are bad because they make huge profits on the backs of labour. Unions are good because? ... Oh yeah, they make huge profits on the backs of their membership's labour.
Oh, but wait, our schools aren't profit makers, (but OPSEU is). Cities rarely make a profit worth bragging about (but CUPE does). OR is that different because they produce nothing and only provide service to a select few? I guess capitalism is bad unless it's a socialist organization practicing it.

   

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