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Doesn't matter. They're in the business of making money.



If the shoe fits.




Ok, so a curveball has to be a permanent thing? You keep moving the goal posts to suit your argument. Nice.

So you're argument is that these corporations should focus more on the human side of the business and try to care for their workers and their families?

You are also aware, that millions of Canadians have a child with special needs who don't have a union benefits to hold onto. Somehow, they manage just fine.

   

Oy!

In your universe, how is the corporation different? Or is it different at all? Are corporate interests all sweetness and light?

   

Move the goalposts much? You're the one talking about the hard-working, company founder and the evil unionists depriving him of his hard-won income. I just called Bravo Sierra on your analogy. So your answer is workers of the world give up?



Why not just be honest and admit that you hate unions on principle regardless of the situation. All hail corporation.



Not moving any goalposts at all. You're the one doing the dodging and weaving. You're the one that thinks nothing will ever go wrong for you, that your life is completely under your control. I hope you're right. From your posting style, I'm pretty sure you couldn't handle it if it were any other way.



Can you link to where I said anything like that? I just don't go for your 'unions suck! Greed rulez!' mindset that insists that any group of employees in a union are by nature bloodsuckers.



Millions eh? Pull figures outta your ass often? And given your lack of experience, how do you know just how they're managing?

Answer? You don't!

   

Of course not but without corporations their wold be less work available.

Unions served their purpose in the past, today as I said, dinosaurs.

   

Precisely. It's very hard for young people here in Quebec (about 40-45% of people are unionized, the biggest number in all North America) to find job. Even if we are better and more qualified, most of the time we only find temporary jobs (if we are lucky) because the unions are keeping the real jobs away from us. That has to change.

   

The little scrap of diploma paper means nothing until you prove it for four years.
Yeah life's unfair. Then you die. Suck it up princess.

   

The answer is Unions (and workers) should be happy with what they have and not consistently pushing for more. It's not about giving up, it's about living in reality and being reasonable.



I don't hate the concept of unions, I hate what unions have become in our era. They are symbols of greed, ignorance and are in a serious need of a reality check.





You assume so much, yet know so little. I've had serious health problems in my life, some which prevented me from working during a major chuck of last year. 5 surgeries alone in 2008.

I've had a lot of "curveballs" thrown my way, from my children, my personal health, the list goes on. Not a curveball to your standards, no doubt. Perhaps if I opted to marry a woman with a special needs child, then I'd have a leg to stand on



It's not about greed, it's about reality. Business's are in the business of making money, not giving away money. I know that's a shock to people like you and unions in general, but Unions and their workers are entitled to nothing. Not all union workers are bloodsuckers, many are, but the real bloodsucker is the Union in general.




Ah yes, another assumption. Another WRONG assumption at that. How could anyone even dare to compare to the mighty Arrow and his special needs step-child! GASP!

My wife teaches special needs children, specifically those with autism. I've worked with special needs children during my time at Variety Village in Toronto.

As for me pulling "figures outta my ass"

There are over 3 million adults, 15+ in Canada who require special needs. Add to that the children, you're well over a million Canadians with special needs demands in their family.

As a special needs father, you should be more aware of your fellow Canadians in the same situation.

But hey, what the hell would I know about special needs children,adults and their families?

   

I'm not talking about myself personally. I'm talking about young people in general. That has nothing to do with experience. It's about the unions. Someone of 30 y.o. can have 10 years of experience in his domain but won't be able to enter an industry because the old and lazy unionized people have their jobs protected while a better and hard working person could do much better.

You should get a job because you are the best, not because you are the elder there. Reality bitch.

   

If I could just step in here. I drive by that plant everyday on my way to and from work. I am current working under two people (one foreman one manager) who used to work at that plant.

This sounds like the foreman (foreign trained engineer who can barely speak english). They are both absolute fucking idiots.

For example, on an efficiency chart, this pin head mentioned above put the efficiency of a machine at 105% when it planned to make 7500 bags but made 4150....

Yeah. The management at that place was fucked, but that doesn't blame from the workers.

   

The elder are the best, or management has failed to screen it's workforce properly. You are blaiming the union for an incompetant manager.

   

Old and lazy. What a load of #%@^& crap. Spouting tired cliche hoping some reader's fool enough to believe it is one thing, spouting it to someone who employs people's another.
Got any idea how many old lazy union workers I've encountered in 40 years working? About THREE. Know how many spoiled, lazy, half-assed, think they're shit is golden under 30's I've FIRED in 12 years of business? About 40.
You WORK. You PROVE IT. Then you expect to get paid fair. That's what seniority means, you already proved you're worth it. Most young people are pampered, unmotivated and don't have the ambition to go to the ropes and earn dick.
Waah! I don't WANNA start in the stock room and work my way up. I have a diploma, I should start tomorrow as Junior Management. Waah!

   

I don't want to stick up for the union guys but clearly Lever was bought by someone who deliberately triggered this whole situation with the goal of using it as an excuse to shut the entire operation down. This is nothing new among the Wall Street/Bay Street types. By some unholy Law of Infinite Perversity that only people with Management or Commerce diplomas understand, these types of slick-suited sociopaths have found the magic formula to make more money by destroying and then shutting down entire companies than they do by building them.

I'm not overly fond of the legacy of contemporary unionism but examples like this, as well as almost all the other bad decision making and kill-or-be-killed business strategies of the last thirty year that culminated in the recent global economic disaster, are obviously the overwhelming responsibility of bad managers, incompetent CEOs, corrupt politicians, and crooked stock market manipulators. Blaming the union people for everything that's gone wrong with North American industry falls into the category of bloody ridiculous.

   

I've got more than that, and I've worked in a union environment for a grand total of 8 months. I get told to stop working so hard by them.

   

That means that your management is incompentant. They are suppose to screen the lazy workers out of company. If done so, the elder workers are always the best.

   

Also, like Herbie sort of said, I've never seen any bad worker on a trade union job be exempt from being run off is he's no good or a troublemaker. The union places I've worked at in Calgary usually had a spinning revolving door for the idiots that the foremen and plant supervisors kept firing. Yeah, there's some of the old timers who make you wonder about them, but any of the young guys who show up with a fuck-you attitude don't last long, at least not in the Alberta fab shops or field jobs. Maybe it's worse in the Ontario/Quebec braindead assembly line manufacturing plants, but the majority of trade workers I've encountered in Alberta seem to have earned whatever wages and benefits they get.

   

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