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It's slowly starting to sink in. We are leaving Afghanistan. After all the blood sweat and toil, lives lost and money spent, we are gone by 2011. After all the spirited debates, impassioned speeches and most vitriolic diatribes that's it? For what? I still support the premise of the mission in Afghanistan and by no means will we have met that premise by 2011. Is this just a ploy for votes and will we be back once the election is over or is this a silent concession of just how badly managed the overall war on terror has been waged and we are only now cutting our losses?

The reason why we are there has not gone away. Usama is still at large, Pakistan is now precariously unstable with a stockpile of nuclear arms, Iran is still demanding their right to nuclear energy and Afghanistan is no where near stable. Is this another fall of Saigon? What does it mean to be a protectorate of the west when they really need that help? Who will ever support us when we need it now when we can not help anyone save ourselves?

   

The damage is already done.. But it's a nice gesture of concession.

   

Are you suggesting that the PM simply do what he thinks best, reguardless of the wishes of parliament and the poeople of Canada? I agree with you but we voted and got the extension to 2011. If we get there and there is more to do, we can vote for another extension but I doubt there will be much support, expecially from the Liberals.

   

The goal has been for the Afghan government to be able to handle its own affairs, the CF feels this is attainable by 2011, and I agree.
As for Pakistan and Iran, there really is nothing we can do about them at this point. Saying that they are hot spots doesnt prove anything, you might as well list North Korea, Darfur, Congo, Liberia, Georgia, Rwanda, Southern Thailand ect and say we should do more about them.

   

Such a vote would be a confidence motion. Is the mission too much of a political gamble for ANY party at this point? Liberal support of the mission has pandered to the idea that more humanitarian goals have to be secured but in order to do that you need to pacify and you can not do that without stability. Hundreds of schools that we built are now nothing but ashes now because we can't be there 24-7. The way in which the mission is being managed requires a 24-7 presence in far to many areas. If this mission fails, NATO fails.

   

Hundereds of schools in ashes? I dont know how many were built but when I was over there I did not see one in ashes, and that was in Kandahar. What Afghanistan needs is to trust its government, to do this they need a fully functional military and national police force. This is what main NATO mission is now, and it is well on its way to being a reality by 2011.

   

NATO hasn't failed. NATO had no buisness being their in the first place and neither do we. The Taliban is talking peace but a conditional peace where foreign troops leave and thats entirely reasonable from their perspective.

Its time we left them to solve their own problems because quite frankly we are the reason Pakistan is now destabilizing given that they are internally struggling with a country at odds with supporting us and the insurgents. I don't expect Pakistan to tear itself apart to serve our needs and neither should anybody.

Leaving the country is the only fair and viable option left. We had no right to invade and every right to withdraw and start to look after our own affairs.

I see your point though about how 6 months ago a 2011 timetable was labelled as a traitorous Liberal proposal where now its a fair and just CPC decision.

   

IMO Canada has forgotten how to fight a war. I'm not saying this towards the troops on the ground, but our political leaders, our media, the people who control the overall strategic picture.

   

I think if we do leave by 2011, this will shake up NATO and Canada should seriously look into our participation. An alliance of members that will stand around while while we do the bloody business is not one I'm happy to be part of.

   

We asked for the position and place we are in or have you forgotten? In addition, NATO was designed to counter the USSR and not invade foreign countries with religious and cultural practices we don't happen to like.

   

The primary goal was Usama, after that was to stabilize the region not just prop up a puppet regime. The instability here spreads to Burma, Iran, Georgia, Pakistan as well as Afghanistan itself. That is a central theme. We are looking at a massive drug trade, nuclear proliferation and a global insurgency. All of which can not be tackled within the boarders of Canada but each is a clear and present danger.

In the past few years, hundreds of girls’ schools have been burnt down, clinics have been closed and village women executed for charges including “spying”. In July, two women in Ghazni were kidnapped and shot for “immoral” behaviour. Many prominent women have found themselves on hit-lists and have been urged to take extra precautions in public.

Threatening messages – known as “night letters” – targeting teachers, students and government employees.

   

Right, thats the only thing they want, leave and we will be nice, Bullshit. The only reason they say that is because they feel they can take the ANA and ANP on. They know they are out matched with foreign troops.


Pakistan has been pissing people off in that part of the world ever since they gained independence. The main reason they have nukes; because India has them and they are both still having a slap fest over Kashmir.

I cant recall when in April the Conservatives said a 2011 time table was unreasonable...

   

There will always be a NATO/UN presence in Afghanistan past 2011 and Canada will still play a role which could end up being more of a rebuilding role and less of a combat one..

   

It would still break NATO and leave it in serious question at a time where it is already being spread to the breaking point and trying to recruit members such as Georgia and the Ukraine that is all but certain to draw them into far more perilous missions. The confidence in the NATO union is crumbling and if members begin to have second thoughts on supporting the whole then NATO is indeed in danger of collapsing as a paper tiger to scared to show its fangs.

   

So you would rather have Canada turn it's back on it's obligation as a member of NATO..

You also clearly have no problem with the Taliban being in power once again so they can publicly execute women because it's not in your backyard, typical Liberal Isolationist Bullshit!

   

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