Canada Kicks Ass
The Tory Platform

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dino_bobba_renno @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:41 pm

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:
Nice scare tactics there, Dino. Is fearmongering a prerequisite to becoming a Conservative supporter?


Are you on glue or something? You consider those "scare tactics"? What about Layton running around claiming were going to hell in a hand cart? Great lead ship skills there, incite mass panic at a time when the Canadian public needs to be reassured more then ever just to score some cheap political points.

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:
Layton never said he wanted to shut down the oil sands. He said that we need a moratorium on further development. That matches what a lot of Albertans have said because the boom is out of control. Of course now that oil prices are dropping, the boom will end. And neither Harper nor the Alberta government have done anything to prepare for that.


And I guess Layton's flatform includes a plan for that as well considering he hasn't once answered a question about what he will do about job loses in Alberta, BC, and Saskatchewan as a result of his moratorium.

By the way when does the moratorium take effect? Immediately, in two years, five??? What's the answer? Do we go to a publicly owned company and say "well you know that little project that is due to start in 2011, ya the one you've all ready sunk over 500 million in up front engineering into and borrowed 500 million for the geotechnical work , ya we would like to kind of hold off on that. I know, I know, you've got all that borrowed money racking up interest and with this new announcement you have no ida when you will see any return but we'll get back to you on when you and your shareholders can start". Ya right. How much will it cost Canadian tax payers to compensate these companies for lost revenue? And what if the smaller producers fold because of this. you know the Canadian owned ones? Who will compensate them?

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:
Layton is smart enough to realize something that Harper isn't too. Companies that don't make a profit don't pay taxes. Tax breaks mean nothing to them. By taking the $50 billion Harper was going to give away and using it to help struggling companies, he would preserve jobs and make it possible to create new ones.



Wow, did you take that in school? So we tax successful profitable companies and then turn around and give the money to the uncompetitive non-profitable ones that aren't contributing to Canada's revenues. Great idea! Boy I wish I was as smart as you Rev.

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:
Quit trying to tell me what the NDP platform is when you aren't smart enough to read it, Dino.


Oh I've read it, may you should too.

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:
This thread is about Harper's platform though. It's a bunch of little promises designed to fool specific demographics in ridings that Harper is targeting. Most of it is goofy, and the remainder is ineffectual. It's the worst kind of political pandering because it pits certain groups of Canadians against others. It has no vision, no long term outlook. It's an appeal to fear and greed, nothing more.


Funny, I was thinking the same thing about the NDP.

   



ridenrain @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:42 pm

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:
Hey, Harper has been the biggest-spending PM to date, Riden. His record is one of extravagance and fiscal irresponsibility while pandering to special interest groups.

His spending hasn't created high-quality jobs though. Instead it's created low-paying, low-benefit service jobs. Ontario has suffered brutally while Finance Monkey Flaherty told the world not to invest there. Harper has a steady hand on the tiller, but he steers like the captain of the Titanic.



bla bla bla... I'd ask you to prove that but you folks are running out of time and are just desperate to make as much noise as possible before the election.

The numbers are clear:
Conservatives: approx $1.9 billion/year
Liberals: approx $8.6 billion/year + $10 billion in other promises
NDP: approx $4.575 billion/year + $2.4 billion in other promises

   



dino_bobba_renno @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:46 pm

Tracker Tracker:
Jan. of 2009. And $5000 is the max per year. The limits will rise in years to come.

you can read about it here... http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/bdgt/2008/txfr-eng.html


Thanks for the link :D

   



ziggy @ Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:28 am

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:
Harper has a pretty poor record when it comes to following through on promises, Dino. He's running about 50%.

He doesn't really have a platform either. What he has is a collection of promises that were cobbled together in response to criticism from the opposition. That's why he didn't have a platform until the opposition parties took him to task for it. Now he's releasing his "platform" after the debates and after the advance polls closed. It looks a lot desperation to me.


If you actually read his platform you would see that a lot of it has been in place for at least a year.

   



ziggy @ Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:33 am

Reverend Blair Reverend Blair:
Hey, Harper has been the biggest-spending PM to date, Riden. His record is one of extravagance and fiscal irresponsibility while pandering to special interest groups.

His spending hasn't created high-quality jobs though. Instead it's created low-paying, low-benefit service jobs. Ontario has suffered brutally while Finance Monkey Flaherty told the world not to invest there. Harper has a steady hand on the tiller, but he steers like the captain of the Titanic.


in todays Calgary sun.

Vac truck drivers-$400.00/day,steady work
Drillers,motorhands,lease hands-will train
United safety-looking for hands,many ground floor opportunities,will train.

You were saying about jobs?
You can bleat all you want but the job's are there and so far you havent dis proved that,just worked on your fearmongering which some might take as fact i guess.

   



Bruce_the_vii @ Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:02 am

The Troy plan amounts to $8 billion over four years - post says. Dion's plan is about that per year, $7 billion on infrastructure alone. I lost interest in anything the guy has to say. Still, Dion is on hold on the polls currently.

   



Apollo @ Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:53 am

The tax free savings account will allow each Canadian to save $5,000 per year every year.

A couple can save $10,000 in year one and $100,000 over 10 years etc. Plus you never lose the room. If you pull out $50K, you can return it at any time and still get the tax free savings.

   



Reverend Blair @ Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:06 am

$1:
What about Layton running around claiming were going to hell in a hand cart? Great lead ship skills there, incite mass panic at a time when the Canadian public needs to be reassured more then ever just to score some cheap political points.


Since when is telling the truth using scare tactics? I know everything looks sunny and bright from the oil patch, since the prevailing carry the pollution east, but that's not the case in Ontario. It's not the case in much of BC. It's not the case in a lot of Quebec. It's not the case in much of the Maritimes.

Yesterday Harper said that voting for anybody but him was "literally jumping off a cliff." I checked everybody elses platforms and there isn't a single word in them about cliff-jumping, so Harper is either is too stupid to understand what "literally" means or he's fear-mongering.

$1:
And I guess Layton's flatform includes a plan for that as well considering he hasn't once answered a question about what he will do about job loses in Alberta, BC, and Saskatchewan as a result of his moratorium.


A moratorium on future development creates job losses? Funny, because those jobs don't exist yet. And if you'd actually pay attention, you'd understand that there will be more jobs created in the long term because of the R&D required and the additional jobs required for reclaiming (really reclaiming, not the bullshit they do now) land, sequestering ghgs, and reducing particulate pollution. That's more jobs, better jobs, for a longer period of time.

$1:
Wow, did you take that in school? So we tax successful profitable companies and then turn around and give the money to the uncompetitive non-profitable ones that aren't contributing to Canada's revenues. Great idea! Boy I wish I was as smart as you Rev.


Wow, do you really think things are that simple? There are a lot of savings in efficiency, there are a lot of savings in equipment upgrades. Productivity has gone into the toilet under Harper. Those things can be addressed with help from the government, but the government has to be involved so the jobs aren't just moved to China or Indonesia. Harper has no plan to do that. Instead he offers band-aids in the week before he calls an election.

The same goes for job re-training. It has to be effective, not some three month program on how to use a hammer, or a six-month typing course so the people who take it can get a job for 10 or 12 bucks an hour. Nobody can live on that for long.

$1:
bla bla bla... I'd ask you to prove that


It was all over the news after each of his budgets and again during his pre-election vote-buying binge.

   



Wada @ Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:08 am

"The tax free savings account will allow each Canadian to save $5,000 per year every year."

My goodness. All those canadians making under $20,000. a year must be estatic. XD

   



djakeydd @ Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:47 am

The following is harpers real platform, cause celebre, his raison d'etre..

"On Oct. 15, 1995, Reform party leader Preston Manning and unity critic Stephen Harper presented Reform's "New Confederation" proposal, a package of 20 measures to modernize and decentralize Canada.

"We propose measures which will assert the autonomy of all provinces and the power of the people well into the future," Harper said.

Each of the 20 changes could be accomplished without comprehensive federal-provincial negotiations of the sort that led to the failed Meech Lake and Charlottetown accords. Reform's proposals simply required a federal government willing to act. "Canadians want change, not more constitutional wrangling," Harper said.

Earlier, speaking to a meeting of the National Citizens Coalition on May 24, 1994, Harper said: "Whether Canada ends up with one national government, or two governments or 10 governments, the Canadian people will require less government no matter what the constitutional status or arrangements of any future country may be."

In 1997, Harper and his confidant Tom Flanagan, writing in their Next City magazine, suggested that coalition-building was the only practical way for the right to seize national power. They said an alliance with the Bloc Québécois "would not be out of place. The Bloc are nationalist for much the same reason Albertans are populists – they care about their local identity ... and they see the federal government as a threat to their way of life."

In 2001, Harper proposed "a firewall around Alberta."

In October 2004, Harper made his "Belgian waffle" speech in Quebec City, suggesting that Canada should become a North American version of Belgium, which has autonomous regions. He was sympathetic to this "national autonomy" concept because "Québécois never wanted to be an overwhelmed province in a centralized Canada." Subsequent to Harper's speech, the Belgians had an election that left them so divided they were unable to form a government for more than eight months.

As keynote speaker at the Conservative policy convention in Montreal in March 2005, Harper said: "I also know very well the pride and solidarity of Quebecers. I know they will never let the autonomy and the dignity of Quebec be undermined. But they also want to be partners in the future of Canada. And they will be – once again – with the new Conservative Party of Canada."

Harper made that comment after referring to the Bloc eight times. Each time he set out what the Bloc had proposed for a sovereign Quebec but had not achieved.

"The policy of the Bloc is the strategy of the empty chair," Harper stressed. Then he delivered the punch line: "We, the Conservatives, are the only real vehicle of change here in Quebec and throughout Canada. The Bloc will never make a single positive change. In Quebec, as everywhere in Canada, the only vehicle of change is the Conservative Party of Canada."

With little mainstream news comment, Harper – the day after his keynote speech – slipped a new section into the Conservative policy paper passed in Montreal. It is a shocker! For the first time in Canadian history, a national political party embraced a provincial rights agenda. The section – Part D – binds the party "to ensure that the use of the federal spending power in provincial jurisdictions is limited, authorizes the provinces to use the opting out formula with full compensation if they want to opt out of a new or modified federal program, in areas of shared or exclusive jurisdiction. Consider reforming Canadian federalism, taking into account: (a) the need to consolidate Quebec's position within the Canadian federation; (b) the need to alleviate the alienation felt by the citizens of the West."

In his closing speech at the convention on March 19, Harper said: "I would like to say to Quebecers, our party is going to respect the autonomy of their government, the pride they have in their society and also their needs within Canada, our huge country. The Bloc Québécois for 15 years have not done everything that Quebecers deserve. And I think now Quebecers can express their solidarity within the Conservative Party of Canada."

Almost 50 years earlier, campaigning on a "One Canada" platform in March 1957, John Diefenbaker told a Montreal audience that the Progressive Conservative party "will bring about a united Canada. Our first aim is `One Canada' in which there will be equalization of opportunity for all parts of Canada. We will maintain the Constitution and provincial rights thereunder, which we consider as a sacred trust which shall be maintained in fact as in law."

He cited the words of Sir George-Étienne Cartier: "First of all, let us be Canadians."

Given a choice, without double-talk, Canadians will support a One Canada vision rather than Harper's suggestion that we make Canada the Belgium of North America, with up to 10 autonomous nations.

Does Harper not realize that prior to Confederation, the colonies of British North America were autonomous and that Lord Durham in his famous report reaffirmed their colonial status while Britain retained control over foreign affairs and the military?

It is strange that Harper's mission today is to make all our provinces autonomous with Ottawa mainly looking after foreign affairs and defence as Britain did in colonial days."

What this really boils down to is a flagrant pandering to Alberta, with Quebec thrown in for good measure - the rest of Canada, in harpers eyes, can hop on the wagon of dismantling, or go to hell.

   



ridenrain @ Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:05 am

1995? That's even before the NDP was "new"

   



kenmore @ Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:07 am

I listened to economists on the radio this morning and all but one cut the crap out of it.. he is screwed..

   



EyeBrock @ Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:08 am

djakeydd djakeydd:
The following is harpers real platform, cause celebre, his raison d'etre..

"On Oct. 15, 1995, Reform party leader Preston Manning and unity critic Stephen Harper presented Reform's "New Confederation" proposal, a package of 20 measures to modernize and decentralize Canada.

"We propose measures which will assert the autonomy of all provinces and the power of the people well into the future," Harper said.

Each of the 20 changes could be accomplished without comprehensive federal-provincial negotiations of the sort that led to the failed Meech Lake and Charlottetown accords. Reform's proposals simply required a federal government willing to act. "Canadians want change, not more constitutional wrangling," Harper said.

Earlier, speaking to a meeting of the National Citizens Coalition on May 24, 1994, Harper said: "Whether Canada ends up with one national government, or two governments or 10 governments, the Canadian people will require less government no matter what the constitutional status or arrangements of any future country may be."

In 1997, Harper and his confidant Tom Flanagan, writing in their Next City magazine, suggested that coalition-building was the only practical way for the right to seize national power. They said an alliance with the Bloc Québécois "would not be out of place. The Bloc are nationalist for much the same reason Albertans are populists – they care about their local identity ... and they see the federal government as a threat to their way of life."

In 2001, Harper proposed "a firewall around Alberta."

In October 2004, Harper made his "Belgian waffle" speech in Quebec City, suggesting that Canada should become a North American version of Belgium, which has autonomous regions. He was sympathetic to this "national autonomy" concept because "Québécois never wanted to be an overwhelmed province in a centralized Canada." Subsequent to Harper's speech, the Belgians had an election that left them so divided they were unable to form a government for more than eight months.

As keynote speaker at the Conservative policy convention in Montreal in March 2005, Harper said: "I also know very well the pride and solidarity of Quebecers. I know they will never let the autonomy and the dignity of Quebec be undermined. But they also want to be partners in the future of Canada. And they will be – once again – with the new Conservative Party of Canada."

Harper made that comment after referring to the Bloc eight times. Each time he set out what the Bloc had proposed for a sovereign Quebec but had not achieved.

"The policy of the Bloc is the strategy of the empty chair," Harper stressed. Then he delivered the punch line: "We, the Conservatives, are the only real vehicle of change here in Quebec and throughout Canada. The Bloc will never make a single positive change. In Quebec, as everywhere in Canada, the only vehicle of change is the Conservative Party of Canada."

With little mainstream news comment, Harper – the day after his keynote speech – slipped a new section into the Conservative policy paper passed in Montreal. It is a shocker! For the first time in Canadian history, a national political party embraced a provincial rights agenda. The section – Part D – binds the party "to ensure that the use of the federal spending power in provincial jurisdictions is limited, authorizes the provinces to use the opting out formula with full compensation if they want to opt out of a new or modified federal program, in areas of shared or exclusive jurisdiction. Consider reforming Canadian federalism, taking into account: (a) the need to consolidate Quebec's position within the Canadian federation; (b) the need to alleviate the alienation felt by the citizens of the West."

In his closing speech at the convention on March 19, Harper said: "I would like to say to Quebecers, our party is going to respect the autonomy of their government, the pride they have in their society and also their needs within Canada, our huge country. The Bloc Québécois for 15 years have not done everything that Quebecers deserve. And I think now Quebecers can express their solidarity within the Conservative Party of Canada."

Almost 50 years earlier, campaigning on a "One Canada" platform in March 1957, John Diefenbaker told a Montreal audience that the Progressive Conservative party "will bring about a united Canada. Our first aim is `One Canada' in which there will be equalization of opportunity for all parts of Canada. We will maintain the Constitution and provincial rights thereunder, which we consider as a sacred trust which shall be maintained in fact as in law."

He cited the words of Sir George-Étienne Cartier: "First of all, let us be Canadians."

Given a choice, without double-talk, Canadians will support a One Canada vision rather than Harper's suggestion that we make Canada the Belgium of North America, with up to 10 autonomous nations.

Does Harper not realize that prior to Confederation, the colonies of British North America were autonomous and that Lord Durham in his famous report reaffirmed their colonial status while Britain retained control over foreign affairs and the military?

It is strange that Harper's mission today is to make all our provinces autonomous with Ottawa mainly looking after foreign affairs and defence as Britain did in colonial days."

What this really boils down to is a flagrant pandering to Alberta, with Quebec thrown in for good measure - the rest of Canada, in harpers eyes, can hop on the wagon of dismantling, or go to hell.


This kind of boring partisan posting just makes this site very boring at the moment.

I voted on 3rd Oct and I'm thinking that this site might become interesting again by about the 21st Oct.


BORING BORING BORING

   



EyeBrock @ Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:09 am

kenmore kenmore:
I listened to economists on the radio this morning and all but one cut the crap out of it.. he is screwed..


CBC by any chance?

BORING PARTISAN CRAPPY POSTINGS

   



mtbr @ Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:11 am

kenmore kenmore:
I listened to economists on the radio this morning and all but one cut the crap out of it.. he is screwed..



did you listen to the financial news?

where the bank of Canada cut rates unilaterally with all the world banks?

Harper knew it was coming but being the PM he was handicapped by not allowing to announce it earlier. Unlike Liberals who let the cat out of the bag early in order to help out their friends :wink:

   



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