Letter from Liberal Party on Montana death-row Canadian
novachick @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:51 pm
DerbyX DerbyX:
novachick novachick:
Of course that doesn't make it right. It just is what it is. What your looking for a perfect solution in an imperfect world? With Capital punishment some innocents will die with the majority of the guilty. As a society we are never far removed from the elements of war. Innocents die for the greater good. Life is harsh maybe you should just buy yourself a fucking helmet.
I'm sorry but that is just wrong and if it were someone you loved you would not be so casual.
Our entire justice system is founded on the principle of making extraordinary efforts to ensure that innocent people aren't found guilty.
Its entirely the reason why some guilty people go free.
I don't think I could tolerate living in a society that so casually tosses innocent people on the fire "for the good of society" because that isn't a society that deserves justice.
I'm not being casual. I'm being honest. Innocent people become victims for a variety of reasons. The quest for justice is only one of those reasons.
On the extraordinary efforts to ensure that innocent people aren't found guilty. NO SHIT !!!!! The evidence
can be right fucking there in police photos, in DNA, in crime scene evidence. YET THE VICTIM is drug through shit AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. Justice comes at a very very high price for the victim. Innocent people, the victims are tossed on the fire every damn day in the justice system.
DerbyX @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:59 pm
novachick novachick:
DerbyX DerbyX:
novachick novachick:
Of course that doesn't make it right. It just is what it is. What your looking for a perfect solution in an imperfect world? With Capital punishment some innocents will die with the majority of the guilty. As a society we are never far removed from the elements of war. Innocents die for the greater good. Life is harsh maybe you should just buy yourself a fucking helmet.
I'm sorry but that is just wrong and if it were someone you loved you would not be so casual.
Our entire justice system is founded on the principle of making extraordinary efforts to ensure that innocent people aren't found guilty.
Its entirely the reason why some guilty people go free.
I don't think I could tolerate living in a society that so casually tosses innocent people on the fire "for the good of society" because that isn't a society that deserves justice.
I'm not being casual. I'm being honest. Innocent people become victims for a variety of reasons. The quest for justice is only one of those reasons.
On the extraordinary efforts to ensure that innocent people aren't found guilty. NO SHIT !!!!! The evidence
can be right fucking there in police photos, in DNA, in crime scene evidence. YET THE VICTIM is drug through shit AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. Justice comes at a very very high price for the victim. Innocent people, the victims are tossed on the fire every damn day in the justice system.
You seem a tad worked up.
Your approach that innocent people should be put to death in order that more guilty people can be executed is wrong in my opinion. I have no problem with the application of the death penalty but guilt must be established beyond beyond reasonable doubt.
A shitload of people who would have been executed have been exonerated by DNA evidence and who is to say that 10 years from now we won't have new techniques allowing us to exonerate those we have executed.
Shrugging the sholders and saying "eh, it was for the good of society" is not an opinion I can share.
I think the greater good for society is a justice system where no innocent person is punished for a crime they didn't commit and if that price is that guilty people go free then its a cost I am willing to pay.
I'd rather live in a society that errs well on the side of the innocent because all the societies that are a problem today seem to think the opposite.
novachick @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:07 pm
Streaker Streaker:
novachick novachick:
Streaker Streaker:
novachick novachick:
Of course that doesn't make it right. It just is what it is. What your looking for a perfect solution in an imperfect world? With Capital punishment some innocents will die with the majority of the guilty. As a society we are never far removed from the elements of war. Innocents die for the greater good. Life is harsh maybe you should just buy yourself a fucking helmet.
Life doesn't have to be so harsh, though. All that's necessary is that we use our heads and resist this fear-driven, hysterical and ultimately futile urge to get revenge all the time.
When we behave like animals, life is harsh, but it doesn't always have to be that way.
Riiiiiiiight we get to choose about life being harsh. There's one helluva difference between JUSTICE and revenge
Well, there's no justice in killing an innocent person.
Why isn't a life sentence sufficient?
Because there is rarely ever a true life sentence handed down in this country. Lock them up for good and I don't mean with tv's, internet, steak dinners, and I'll shut up. Stop persecuting victims and I'll shut up.
novachick @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:08 pm
DerbyX DerbyX:
novachick novachick:
DerbyX DerbyX:
novachick novachick:
Of course that doesn't make it right. It just is what it is. What your looking for a perfect solution in an imperfect world? With Capital punishment some innocents will die with the majority of the guilty. As a society we are never far removed from the elements of war. Innocents die for the greater good. Life is harsh maybe you should just buy yourself a fucking helmet.
I'm sorry but that is just wrong and if it were someone you loved you would not be so casual.
Our entire justice system is founded on the principle of making extraordinary efforts to ensure that innocent people aren't found guilty.
Its entirely the reason why some guilty people go free.
I don't think I could tolerate living in a society that so casually tosses innocent people on the fire "for the good of society" because that isn't a society that deserves justice.
I'm not being casual. I'm being honest. Innocent people become victims for a variety of reasons. The quest for justice is only one of those reasons.
On the extraordinary efforts to ensure that innocent people aren't found guilty. NO SHIT !!!!! The evidence
can be right fucking there in police photos, in DNA, in crime scene evidence. YET THE VICTIM is drug through shit AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. Justice comes at a very very high price for the victim. Innocent people, the victims are tossed on the fire every damn day in the justice system.
You seem a tad worked up.
Your approach that innocent people should be put to death in order that more guilty people can be executed is wrong in my opinion. I have no problem with the application of the death penalty but guilt must be established beyond beyond reasonable doubt.
A shitload of people who would have been executed have been exonerated by DNA evidence and who is to say that 10 years from now we won't have new techniques allowing us to exonerate those we have executed.
Shrugging the sholders and saying "eh, it was for the good of society" is not an opinion I can share.
I think the greater good for society is a justice system where no innocent person is punished for a crime they didn't commit and if that price is that guilty people go free then its a cost I am willing to pay.
I'd rather live in a society that errs well on the side of the innocent because all the societies that are a problem today seem to think the opposite.
Really well forgive me but I'm just not willing to let the guilty go free. FUCK that notion entirely.
novachick @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:13 pm
lily lily:
$1:
Stop persecuting victims and I'll shut up.
What do yo call executing an innocent man?
JUST LIKE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brenda @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:19 pm
$1:
Well, there's no justice in killing an innocent person.
I agree with you here, but...
What is the difference between locking up an innocent person for life (say... 60 years, and he dies in prison at age 85) and killing him 50 years earlier?
And don't tell me him locked up was cheaper, because I don't buy the fact that 50 years of legal fees for him getting out is cheaper than killing him.
Alta_redneck @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:23 pm
Lesson learned with this case is don’t turn down a plea bargain, and then plead guilty and ask for the death sentence ![[rtfm]](./images/smilies/smilie_rtfm.gif "RTFM")
DerbyX @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:23 pm
Brenda Brenda:
$1:
Well, there's no justice in killing an innocent person.
I agree with you here, but...
What is the difference between locking up an innocent person for life (say... 60 years, and he dies in prison at age 85) and killing him 50 years earlier?
And don't tell me him locked up was cheaper, because I don't buy the fact that 50 years of legal fees for him getting out is cheaper than killing him.
Tell that to David Milgard and Reuben "hurricane" Carter.
That chance for exoneration is pretty much zero on a dead man.
In addition, an innocent person still can make some sort of life behind bars not that it excuses sending innocent people to jail mind you.
Brenda @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:25 pm
Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:
ROTFL
Lesson learned with this case is don’t turn down a plea bargain, and then plead guilty and ask for the death sentence
Lesson learned with this case is don’t turn down a plea bargain, and then plead guilty and ask for the death sentence
He did that?
Streaker @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:38 pm
Brenda Brenda:
$1:
Well, there's no justice in killing an innocent person.
I agree with you here, but...
What is the difference between locking up an innocent person for life (say... 60 years, and he dies in prison at age 85) and killing him 50 years earlier?
And don't tell me him locked up was cheaper, because I don't buy the fact that 50 years of legal fees for him getting out is cheaper than killing him.
I'm guessing than someone wrongly sentenced would rather fight it from a prison cell than quietly be executed. There's your difference.
As long as there's a shred of hope, people are willing to endure a lot of hardship, even though sometimes a life sentence can be a fate worse than death.
In short, killing an innocent person is unacceptable, especially since in most cases it would happen against his will.
hwacker @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:43 pm
DerbyX DerbyX:
Brenda Brenda:
$1:
Well, there's no justice in killing an innocent person.
I agree with you here, but...
What is the difference between locking up an innocent person for life (say... 60 years, and he dies in prison at age 85) and killing him 50 years earlier?
And don't tell me him locked up was cheaper, because I don't buy the fact that 50 years of legal fees for him getting out is cheaper than killing him.
Tell that to David Milgard and Reuben "hurricane" Carter.
That chance for exoneration is pretty much zero on a dead man.
In addition, an innocent person still can make some sort of life behind bars not that it excuses sending innocent people to jail mind you.
Yep there is the typical response. How many more decades will you keep pushing out crap like that on your C64.
Maybe you should move up to the 90’s
or just move.
Alta_redneck @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:51 pm
Brenda Brenda:
Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:
ROTFL
Lesson learned with this case is don’t turn down a plea bargain, and then plead guilty and ask for the death sentence
Lesson learned with this case is don’t turn down a plea bargain, and then plead guilty and ask for the death sentence
He did that?
He sure did. he said him and his buddy killed the 2 Indians just to see what it felt like to kill someone. His friend took the plea bargian and has been a free man for close to 10 years.
ridenrain @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:57 pm
The death penalty was removed without a referendum.
I say bring it to the people and let them decide.
There have been mistakes I would be just as happy to ratchet up the requirements just a bit higher. For example, David Milguard was arrested and jailed for the murder of one person.
Then, there`s the other side:
$1:
At 9:45 a.m., Denis Lortie entered the Quebec Parliament Building through a side door located on Grande-Allée. He was dressed in combat fatigues and armed with two submachine guns. Just as he entered the building, he shot at a receptionist, then killed a messenger that he crossed in a corridor. He ended up in a smoking room and shot at the people there. He then went to the cafeteria, but finally found his way into the Assembly Chamber.
Based on later testimony, it is clear he intended to assassinate Premier René Lévesque and other members of the governing Parti Québécois. His plan was to enter the Assembly Chamber during the parliamentary committee starting at 10:00 that morning. However, he arrived early when only a few people were present in the Chamber. Lortie killed three government employees (Georges Boyer, Camille Lepage and Roger Lefrançois) and wounded 13 others. No politicians were killed or wounded.
...
In 1985, Lortie was convicted of first-degree murder, but a new trial was ordered due to legal errors. Lortie pleaded guilty to reduced charges of second-degree murder in 1987.
Lortie was paroled in December 1995.
Based on later testimony, it is clear he intended to assassinate Premier René Lévesque and other members of the governing Parti Québécois. His plan was to enter the Assembly Chamber during the parliamentary committee starting at 10:00 that morning. However, he arrived early when only a few people were present in the Chamber. Lortie killed three government employees (Georges Boyer, Camille Lepage and Roger Lefrançois) and wounded 13 others. No politicians were killed or wounded.
...
In 1985, Lortie was convicted of first-degree murder, but a new trial was ordered due to legal errors. Lortie pleaded guilty to reduced charges of second-degree murder in 1987.
Lortie was paroled in December 1995.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Lortie
The whole defence against capital punishment falls apart when faced with serial or repeate offenders. One may be a mistake but a lifetime of violence and crime is obviously not stopped by a hug and a time out.
Streaker @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:07 pm
Then give 'em a life sentence.
"Ratcheting up the requirements just a bit higher" won't cut it: Sooner or later, innocent people will still be executed.
ridenrain @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:31 pm
Was there some possibility that this guy above us was framed?
This guy pleaded guilty to second degree, for procuring 2 sub-machine guns and planning a trip to see and kill MPs. I don't know how much more premeditated you can get.
Found guilty in 87, paroled in 95 = 8 years in jail.
Does that sound right to you?