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Well, first I never said that Canadian soldiers aren't as advanced as US soldiers, just that the US soldiers rate as one of the most advanced in the world. When I say one of, I mean among other developed countries. Israel also has very advanced units, China does, Europes does, and Canada does, not to mention other countries who have advanced units. What I was implying though is that even if Canada puts that 9 billion surplus into their army, it won't match the US's spending and the US supply of military related things. You have to think here, that even if you started building up Canada today, the US has had 50 years of build up, although during the 90's they decreased the army a bit. When I say that the US has advanced soldiers, I'm implying that our soldiers are just as good as any of the Canadian soldiers, but then I say we have numbers, which also implies that we have more well-trained soldiers just given the number of our population and size of our army. The US spends $370.7 billion which is only 3% of their GDP, on their military. Canada spends $9,801.7 million on their military, which is 1% of their GDP. Canada's GDP is only 958.7 billion. The US's GDP is $10.99 trillion. Think about those numbers, and the fact that Canada's surplus would not even come close to what the US is spending on their military, and also think about the fact that the US already has military bases all of the US, and a huge 50 year military build up, with 73,597,731 people for military manpower availability. Canada has 8,417,314 people for military manpower availability. As far as manpower fit for service, Canada has 7,176,642, while that number is not available for the US side, but I'm sure we can assume what it is.

You really think that Canada would be able to win the peace so easily in Iraq? If it's based on a cultural thing, then you can't say the military is better, because the US is hated and attacked and has to deal with fulluja's and such, just that Canadians would have an easier time. It's odd, Canadians face roadside bombs all the time, yet you barely hear about them dying as much as you hear about the US soldiers. If a roadside bomb goes off next to you, it doesn't matter how much armor you have, because it will tear you up. Face it, Canada has not been in a situation where they are hated by a good portion of a country, face an insurgency, and at the same time are trying to win a peace. If you look back, the insurgents were blowing people up during the war, after the war, and etc. The US bombed alot of places to remove the government, which it did, but not it faces the insurgency and so on. If you also will remember, the US was a part of the Afghanistan invasion, and are still there, so anything that Canada is doing so great there, is also beside Americans who have done just as great of things there. Iraq is still a different war that Afghanistan. I just love how you all like to clump every war together like they are all the same.

   

1. I've never said that Canada's forces are lesser trained, so stop being so reactionary and putting words in my mouth. Canada has not been in a situation like Iraq were they are hated by a good portion of the country, face a huge insurgency, invaded the country to remove a government, and face terrorist attacks and so on daily, all while trying to win the peace.

2. I actually do, because it depends on the war, like I have stated. If the US isn't trying to win the peace, then they have no need to tell friend from foe; they can just carpet bomb cities, and send in overwhelming force to a country that has 10% of their population, and spends probably less that 1% what they do on their military. If they are trying to win the peace, they would have to have a reason for doing so.

3. Well, that's all great that you guys don't go around invading countries and haven't been in a war like Iraq, but I think you proved my point. I said that Canada hasn't been in a war like Iraq, in which they face those things in number 1, and you have proved my point by admiting you haven't been in that type of war. Any military would have trouble in Iraq if they faced the same situation as the US, and saying that it's because the US military isn't as good as Canada is dishonest. What I put forward to you all was given a battlefield, who would win, the US, or Canada, and trying to keep the peace out. Also, I was trying to prove that you can't bring up Iraq as a reason why Canada would defeat the US, because Iraq is a peace-keeping mission in someways(as distorted as that sounds, but the US's goal is of keeping the peace, not crushing their enemy -- which isn't the whole country.).

   

Agreed.



Canada has been on countless successful peacekeeping missions and never had to deal with the hardships faced by the US forces. One should ask why that is.

1. What part of the US "peacekeeping mission" rules of engagement permits the killing of innocents?

2. I think the Canadian Armed Forces with our extensive UN training leading up to a peacekeeping mission should have long ago been looked to by the US as an opportunity to learn from the best.

3. The US has tools of immense destruction, but that does not mean that they should be allowed to use them irresponsibly...

4. As has been seen from every engagement in the last 50 years, the US has viewed everyone that moved within their theatre of operations with intense paranoia ie.) everyone is a potential enemy (see first point)...it is this fear and insecurity which eats the heart of any good intentions they may have had in the beginning...and it is this that has led to the crimes against humanity that are being perpetrated, supposedly for the sake of peace...the US has created the insurgency...now they have to deal with it...

   

Face it? There is nothing to face. You're right. Canada will not be in a situation like that because our approach toward people is completely different. Americans believe themselves to be superior to Canadians. If Americans believe they are superior to people who look, speak, dress and have the same income as they do, then how on Earth do they regard the people of the third world? When you believe yourself to be superior to others, your ability to treat them with respect diminishes exponentially. Not regarding someone with respect is problematic in many ways. Canadians do not look at the world the same way. We do not think we are superior to anyone. Being richer, more knowledgeable or more talented is something to be thankful for. There is a responsibility that goes along with that good fortune. Canada and the US are only wealthy because of what our ancestors have accomplished. We are not wealthy because this particular generation has earned it. We are no different than those in the third world that are just now inheriting what there ancestors passed down to them. They are just like us. Except, we have ancestors that chose a more successful path. This is something Americans do not get.

   

Hmm, I'm an American and I don't think I'm superior to Canadians. I was just stating facts about the US's military size, the money put into it, and build up over all the years which would make it hard for Canada to defeat them. This all doesn't mean I think the US is superior on a human basis to Canadians, just that their military is superior because they spend a shitload of money on it and have more people. If both our countries put the same amount of money into our armies, and had the same population numbers, it would be a different story. Your whole post stinks of a Canadian superiority complex...."Except, we have ancestors that chose a more successful path. This is something Americans do not get."...."When you believe yourself to be superior to others, your ability to treat them with respect diminishes exponentially. Not regarding someone with respect is problematic in many ways. Canadians do not look at the world the same way. We do not think we are superior to anyone"...

You sound to me like you don't respect Americans at all, and you don't give any of them credit. There's alot of Americans who think just like you, and who do GET things. So far all of your post have basically been against Americans, and in a way which doesn't seem very respectful. The Americans work hard for their military, and spend TONS of money on it, nerely 1/3 the Canadian GDP, yet you all have proclaimed that with your little surplus, you could build up a military and defeat the American military if they attacked you. To me that seems like an attitude of thinking you are just plain better than Americans. I don't even go around saying that the US could defeat China and Russia, or vice versa, yet for some reason you thought that a country with 1/10th the population of another and not enough money to fun their military anywhere nere the level of the other, could defeat them. I mean, hey, that's great if you think your country is that good, but I go off of stats, not a feeling of being superior. If Mexico had a bigger army than the US and spent 1/3 of the US GDP on their military, I would be like "they would kick our ass." haha

   

I know there are many Americans that do not feel superior. But institutionally speaking, I think it is a prevailing attitude among the US government and US conservatives.



I never said Canada would win such a war .. that would be impossible.



When I said "we", I meant the ancestors of both Canadians and Americans.



No.. to clarify .. I hate your government and I really fucking hate its foreign policy. I love Americans. I have had many fabulous experiences with Americans as friends, acquaintances and co-workers.



I have never include Canada's surplus budget into my theory of reorganizing our military. I have never suggested a build up to defeat the US in battle. Its simply not possible. My suggestion was to reorganize our military so that if something changed (politically) in the US to facilitate an annex of Canada, we could defend ourselves. Currently, our military couldn't defend against the North Dakota National Guard.



Sorry man I really don’t mean to insult you, but I have a fonder appreciation to our approach to things in the world and within our own borders. If that sounds like I’m being a nationalist then so be it

   

haha, well, maybe I'm getting you and vinni fucci mixed up, which is my bad. I can understand hating the US policy towards countries, I mean I really don't agree with alot of it that much myself(like the huge support of Israel). I don't have any problems with Canada building up to defend itself, just don't push relations to even worse areas(not trying to tell you all what to do, but I mean that wouldn't be the Canadian way, would it?). I mean in some ways it's good that you don't have to pay much for your military, because you can use the money on your infastructure, which is why Canada usually ranks in the top 10 as far as quality of life goes.

   

Yeah...all those social programs would be a real comfort as the 1st Cavalry Division rolls into downtown Ottawa...

,,,maybe we should booby-trap the border just in case...

   

Better yet, maybe you should go to Iraq and work on it with Zarqawi; I'm sure he can spare some virgins for you...

   

I'm glad you are starting to see my point ... and yes, I agree with you on the Isreali thing .. they are a very distructive, racist, expansionist little country with a military that dwarfs our in comparison. How is this possible? Isreal cannot have an economy that even closely matches the Canadian economy. So where do they get the cash?



Well, no .. Canadians do not invade other countries unless we are evicting a third party. I just believe that we need to protect ourselves. We need to develop, build and maintain our military in Canada. We need to do this because it will save our back bacon in the long run both strategically and economically. Economically, we can bolster our economy by developing, maintaining and supplying our own military. We have the know how to build jets, tanks, helicopters and boats. We have the know how to provide those units with state of the art technology. In a situation like a prolonged conflict (alongside the USA), we could not re-supply our military with parts and new units because all purchased in the USA. Who would US companies re-supply first? Its a ridiculous way to manage a military. It shows no regard to sovereignty.

   

Hallelujah!!!!

   

mcpuck,

I certainly agree with you on the principle of creating an effective military, however, I don’t see the independency issue is something that can be acquired in less than five decades [since the dependency started during the cold war, five decades ago] and that five decades time limit will be only possible if we have all the production elements in place, and the economical means to support such decision; therefore, from the point view of realism, I say we should settle to evolve our military in accordance with our present security need instead of trying to overpass the USA military power, or become totally independent in this field because don’t forgot that independent military producers are also military exporters, and to tell you the truth, the world at this time doesn’t need another Weapon producer that is more dependent on the world market demand than its own economy because that what made Europe the independent economy fall to the dependency on the Arabic military import market, isn't it?

Our security concern shouldn’t in any way consider the USA a threat because that not only contradict the decision we made 5 decade ago to depend on USA of any outside threat, but also jeopardise that same security if we do without having any effective reliance on an alternative in place.

For us to change this policy off a sudden is like claiming national bankruptcy.
Even though our trade dependent economy is as stable, now, as having a surplus, and maybe it will be as stable without the USA partnership here, but then trades economies without solid production and manufacturing system in place [like Japan], the chance for of the survival of such economy are not as solid.

Therefore, for us to be totally independent, we must deal with the dependency issue not by calls to shun the USA and insult its president, but rather with the visionary will of creating the planed economical atmosphere that will lead us safely to that complete independence.

But then let’s ask our self a serious question here…

If the people of a country is dependent on its government subsidies to survive, and the wages trapped in the inflation circle of union/management contrast, and the government is forced every year to change the tax system in a plot to cover the subsidised services expenses while it is paying its debts INTEREST that was caused by either mismanagement or by the subsidised services from its tax coffers, and some of the principals from its trade surplus coffers, how the hell the people of that country can call for independence before freeing themselves first from their dependency they imposed on their country…

You tell me…

   

I'm sorry .. I cannot give you as long a reply as I would wish to but let me say this; I have never promoted a radical independence from the USA. I believe we should maintain NORAD and develop a naval equivalent as well. Economically, over the next 20 years, we should encourage business to diversify our trading relationships more.

Militarily, I think we should stop buying stuff from the USA. We don't need to export weopons simply because we build them. Besides, I understand there is at least 17 major military exporters in Canada. We can create jobs by developing our own military industry. The money is being spent anyway.

The Canadian industrial group could be kept small so it could support our military in peacetime but have the ability to expand rapidly in wartime. This is basic stuff .. Our military would be well supported domestically and our economy would benefit. The new military would not have to give up the interoperability that we require to be a US partner.

   

Not even close to be considered a response...

   

...this was in response to Ann Coulter's inane remarks about invading Canda...



...now that's a proud Canadian!!!

   

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