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I see the Palestinians as a prop. They are nothing more than a convenient distraction. The reason why Israel doesn't just bulldoze the strip and claim it for themselves at this point is because why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? If they just take a bit here and a bit there over time they will get everything they want and Palestinian state will cease to exist.

   

Good question. Before I answer it let me say that I usually stay out of Middle East threads. I was making a statement about superior firepower that applied to the whole world, not just the Middle East. Germany had no obligation to not use missiles or jet fighters just because the allies did not possess them. The U.S. had no obligation to not use nukes just because Japan did not have them. Armies that had gun powder had no obligation to not use it when fighting armies armed with spears. It has always been that way.

Most Americans like to see the world in black and white. "Good guys" vs. "bad guys". There is plenty of "wrong" to go around in the Middle East. The Palestinians got fucked when they got tossed out of their homes and homeland. Israel has had a knife to their neck from their neighbors from day one. Both of them have been screwed over. There are plenty of victims on both sides. I tend to stay out of it because I do not wish to pick sides. Its like watching a cobra and a mongoose go at it. They are natural enemies. Let nature take its course. I have no desire to get in the middle of it.

You ask why not kill them all and get it over with. You probably will not like my answer. If I was running Israel, that is exactly what I would do. I would line up every tank, bulldozer, grader, etc., in the country. At 3 am I would start pushing the Palestinians into the ocean. I would send out a message to the world that anyone that wants to come rescue them with a "Dunkirk" type of boatlift to get on the ball and come get them. They would leave, everyone of them. They would leave or they would die. It would be that simple. I would permanently put an end to this ongoing problem. They would leave, never to return again. It sounds cruel and it is cruel, however it is a solution that works. You only have to look at U.S. history to see how forced relocations permanently puts an end to raids/attacks. The U.S. rounded up the natives on the east coast and relocated them west. Cruel? Yes! Effective? Yes! When was the last native American raid on the east coast? Its been a while. Relocation worked.

If I had to resort to total war to permanently solve the problem, I would. This shit has been going on forever. If it took a few weeks of slaughter to create a lasting peace for my county, than yes. I would do it in a New York minute. Its a no brainer.

Some people just cannot get along. These people have hated each other since the world started spinning. One of then needs to go, the sooner the better. And yes if I was living in Palestine, and thought it was militarily possible to wipe out Israel (through biological weapons, allies, whatever) I would be on board with that as well.

   

Let's follow that thought experiment then. What would that do to Israel and her ally USA? Would they be ostracized and isolated? Do you think Europe would rally to the US or would Putin make more inroads and get a free hand in the Ukraine? How about China? Would this accelerate their economic take over of Africa? And what about the Arab states? It's clear they see the Palestinians as at best a burden but if they were exterminated it would still be seen as an obscene line that was crossed like stepping into a fight between siblings and they BOTH turn on you.

Israelis' current path is the path of least resistance. Annexing outright has just too many downsides.

   

Israel is already ostracized and isolated. Israel can count her friends on one finger. Putin already has a free hand in Ukraine. China is going to do what they are going to do, it has nothing to do with what Israel does or does not do. They play the long game and they have a plan. The west is too addicted to cheap prices to stand up to china. China is literally selling us (at discount prices) the rope to hang ourselves. Its only a matter of time before China is calling all the shots. The Arab states? They will bitch and whine like they always do. They are real good at burning flags and shouting "death to Israel" but militarily they are a joke. When is the last time anyone from that part of the world actually won a war? Israel could wipe them all out in a matter of months.

   

Ah yes, Iraq was supposed to be a cake walk as I recall. And Afghanistan is just a bunch of inbred goat headers and yet we pulled pin on that too.

Well at least the rope China sells us will be cheap and probably break.

   

Israel gets an occasional hand-slap in the UN. That's about the worst consequence they ever face for when they cut loose on the Palestinians. Not that I support BDS or any of that other anti-Semitic crap. In reality though? Israel can do what it wants and get away with it pretty much all the time.

PS: looks like the heroes on Twitter are firmly on Hamas's side because apparently everyone on the platform wants Gal Gadot dead for saying something like "can't we all just get along?", and for being Israeli too.

   

Not yet, I'm sure one day that level of stupidity will spread here.

   

Hamas are nutters. End of story. They’re making life in Gaza ever worse. There are other causes of the current mess, though.

A powerful inciting factor was the scheduled eviction of a small number of Arabs from East Jerusalem, a tiny part of a much larger Israeli project. The ultimate scenario will be isolated, powerless Arab bantustans in the West Bank completely surrounded by Israel - the 1.1 state solution where Israel gets nearly all the land there with a minimum number of Arab voters. Politicians to the right of Netanyahu have been musing about this for years. Given how terrified most American politicians are of offending the Israel lobby, I doubt there’ll be much objection when formal annexation occurs. Even most Arab states are anxious to curry favour with Israel these days.

Another is sectarian conflict within Israel itself. This has erupted on an unprecedented scale with gangs from both sides attacking people and property. Netanyahu has played a role in inflaming anti-Arab prejudice for political gain and now faces a trickier challenge than the rockets of Hamas.

   

Palestinian Family Who Lost Home In Airstrike Takes Comfort In Knowing This Is All Very Complicated

https://www.theonion.com/palestinian-fa ... 1846878803

   

I've reached the same conclusion. This exact same situation has been going since I was born, and a long time before then. At some point, you have to realize that if it's been that way for nigh on 80 years, then there must be some satisfaction for the status quo.

Palestinians can continue along with massively corrupt governance by using the list of grievances Israel is happy to provide. Israel can ignore the legitimate plight of displaced Palestinians and continue happily pushing them off the edge of the map with encroaching settlements, justifying their actions by Palestinian terrorism.

   

The critique isn't that Israel needs to come down to the level of Hamas or vice-versa, it's whether or not you want to be seen as the guy wearing the white hat (good guy).

For most of Israel's existence, they were the victims who were just defending themselves against 100 million Arabs who wanted to at the very least evict them, or at the worst, exterminate them. Tack on that they were a democracy and their opponents were largely dictatorships, and it was easy to see them as the guys in white hats.

So they'd go toe-to-toe with Egypt, Syria, et al and kick their ass and it was all okay.

But sometime in the 2000s, Israel decided to just use massive force in response to any terrorist attack, which often led to huge numbers of civilian deaths. Maybe Dubya said it was okay, or maybe Israel took its cues from the US on its 'War on Terror' I don't know.

Either way, that isn't what 'good guys' do. In the same fashion, the US took it on the chin every time they drone bombed a wedding or family instead of a terrorist group in Afghanistan or Iraq over the past 20 years.

I fully agree that Israel is justified in self-defence, but I'd argue that their response is often 10 or 20 fold what Hamas does and winds up killing 10 or 20 times the civilians that Hamas does.

So while almost everybody agrees that Hamas is a terror group, there is now a large segment of the population in western countries that feels the IDF is one too.

If Israel wants to regain the moral high ground - and at this point, it doesn't look like it wants to - then it has to exercise restraint when it goes after Hamas and limit civilian casualties.

   

I know I shouldn't have, but that made me laugh!

   

You make some good points. My problem is who gets to decide who is the "good guy"? What parameters are we using? Japan killed very few American civilians in WW2. We Americans killed way, WAY more than the 10 to 20 fold parameters that you are mentioning with Israel and Hamas. So were we the bad guys? How about you? I can find no record of any Canadian civilians being killed by aerial bombardment by axis forces inside Canada during WW2. That did not stop you from incinerating thousands of German civilians by use of firebombs over Dresden. Were you the bad guy?

I do not buy into this tit for tat response horseshit. If someone slaps me with an open hand, I am going all out on them. They broke the peace, they get what they deserve. You do not get to go around starting shit, and then bitch about the end result. WW1 ended with a whimper. Germany was never occupied. They never had to suffer through being occupied by an enemy force. Their cities were not leveled. They did not get to experience what losing a war was actually like, therefore they were were more than ready for round 2. After the severe asskicking that they received in WW2 complete with occupation and destruction, they were a lot LESS ready for round 3. Same with Japan. Severely fucking someone up in round 1, can make sure that there is never a round 2. I would rather a million of the other guys die than one of my own. If someone sees that as being the "bad guy", than fuck em. Anyone saying that shit is not having their own people die.

   

Public attitudes have shifted in the past few decades and what was once acceptable (such as bombing cities in World War 2), is no longer deemed acceptable by most people. Of course, that might change again if another total war situation comes about (like a global conflict between the West and Russia/China).

The horror that was the 9/11 terror attacks horrified many people around the globe and the US got a lot of goodwill and a virtual 'blank cheque' to go after the perpetrators, but soon pissed it away for a bogus war in Iraq.

Again, as I noted, Israel doesn't seem to care about maintaining the moral high ground, so it does what it does and hundreds of civilians die, and they get a public relations black eye. That's a choice they make, just like the choice China makes in its ongoing genocide in Xinjiang.

That is the prerogative of any nation state, but from a modern perspective, when you kill hundreds or thousands of civilians it's hard to later claim the moral high ground, at least in the eyes of the West.

   

The power dynamic is important context here. ONLY Israel has the power to stop this.



On target.

   

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