Riots in France spread into Belgium and Germany.
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Jaime_Souviens @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:27 pm
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Bart perhaps theres something you don't realize here, in the US we accept and integrate new cultures, and in turn they prescribe to the ideal of american exceptionalism. It is for that reason that the US does not have muslim terrorists.
Uhm, except for the terrorists in Lodi and down the street from my home (relatively speaking) at the Masjid Annur mosque that gave Al Qaeda US$1.5 million in August of 2001 just two weeks prior to 9/11.
Hrmm lets see major domestic terrorists of the US....
The Unabomber, Timothy McVeigh, the KKK... I think im noticing a conservative christian trend somewhere...
The Unabomber was a leftist.
He was a reactionary, only reactionary towards technology.
He was a back to nature Luddite.
The left also gets ALF and, (for those who remember the past, the FLQ).
Arctic_Menace @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:46 pm
I say that in a matter of days, we'll be able to see the smoke from outer space. 
But yeah, why is this thing still going on?! Are the french authorities completely useless???...............Wait, stupid question... 
In all seriousness, why hasn't anyone done anything to quell the flames of anger and dissent?
Jaime_Souviens @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:49 pm
In all seriousness, it sounds like no one there has a clue what's going on.
They can't tell if this is a chronic-underemployment-dissatisfaction thing or an Islamic thing, or what.
The press reports here are all over the place, too.
If you don't know what the problem is, you can't fix it.
xerxes @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:04 pm
From the looks of it, it looks like the French were trying to wait the rioters out, or at the very least, keep them contained. It's only in the last 2 or 3 days that the rioting has spread to other cities.
Someone else was wondering why they haven't called the army in. From my understanding, the reason for that is that there are very negative connotations associated with using the army to restore order. It is a big black line that most European governments don't often cross.
Blue_Nose @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:04 pm
There was a fellow on As it Happens tonight who apparently talked to some of the rioters. By the sounds of him, and the way Mary Lou reponded, he wasn't a very credible source, but he said the rioters were upset with the way they're treated by the police in general...
Jaime_Souviens @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:10 pm
BBC BBC:
When we speak, no one listens to us - this is the only way we have of making ourselves heard.
Sarkozy said he would "pressure-clean us" - that we were "rabble".
We want Mr Sarkozy to resign, or the violence will continue. He is too scared to come here and talk to us himself. We don't think we'll ever get jobs.
We'd like to be accountants or work in businesses, but we know that as soon as people hear we have Muslim names and that we live on the Mitry estate in Aulnay, we won't even get interviews.
Sarkozy said he would "pressure-clean us" - that we were "rabble".
We want Mr Sarkozy to resign, or the violence will continue. He is too scared to come here and talk to us himself. We don't think we'll ever get jobs.
We'd like to be accountants or work in businesses, but we know that as soon as people hear we have Muslim names and that we live on the Mitry estate in Aulnay, we won't even get interviews.
It's worse than I thought. They want to be accountants.
Thematic-Device @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:11 pm
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
'Program' as in 'political agenda' not 'program' as in 'funded institution'.
Even so, I've heard of few groups advocating such an agenda...
$1:
This makes little sense. Who the hell is talking about racial profiling?
Numerous conservatives have been, and bart here is quick to paint all muslims with the same brush.
$1:
This makes no sense at all.
Before you go writing any papers, make sure you have clear definitions of terms, or all you're going to do is churn out word mush.
Before you go writing any papers, make sure you have clear definitions of terms, or all you're going to do is churn out word mush.
Sorry I was typing my response inbetween watching TV and talking on the phone, something I won't be doing when I write my essay. Nor will I be dealing with abstracts...
Group Rights as they have been practiced in canada are used to protect various cultures, from the quebecois to christianity and judaism, and from this stems the whole sharia law. This is all under the guise of multiculturalism, and more importantly the clause in the canadian constitution, which states
$1:
This Charter shall be interpreted in a manner consistent with the preservation and enhancement of the multicultural heritage of Canadians.
Now, this poses a problem in canada, since the canadian culture is not quite as defined, nor as pervasive as that of the US. This combined with the fact that their greater emphasis on group rights (such as the laws to preserve quebecs heritage) lends to government support to keep the cultures seperate causes multiculturalism is seperate from integration.
But in the US the story is quite different. Multicultural heritage is great, and is not imcompatible with integration, as evidenced by the fact that the US has a wide diversity of cultures within it yet among all of these cultures the vast majority subscribe to what can be considered the american culture.
But just because immigrants adopt this new culture, doesn't mean that they completely abandon their roots, their langauge, or their cultural identity. It will change to some extent as it will be exposed not only to Americanism, but to a wide breadth of other cultures as well.
hopefully that was clearer.
xerxes @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:17 pm
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
BBC BBC:
When we speak, no one listens to us - this is the only way we have of making ourselves heard.
Sarkozy said he would "pressure-clean us" - that we were "rabble".
We want Mr Sarkozy to resign, or the violence will continue. He is too scared to come here and talk to us himself. We don't think we'll ever get jobs.
We'd like to be accountants or work in businesses, but we know that as soon as people hear we have Muslim names and that we live on the Mitry estate in Aulnay, we won't even get interviews.
Sarkozy said he would "pressure-clean us" - that we were "rabble".
We want Mr Sarkozy to resign, or the violence will continue. He is too scared to come here and talk to us himself. We don't think we'll ever get jobs.
We'd like to be accountants or work in businesses, but we know that as soon as people hear we have Muslim names and that we live on the Mitry estate in Aulnay, we won't even get interviews.
It's worse than I thought. They want to be accountants.
Would you prefer lawyers?
Jaime_Souviens @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:17 pm
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Now, this poses a problem in canada, since the canadian culture is not quite as defined, nor as pervasive as that of the US. This combined with the fact that their greater emphasis on group rights (such as the laws to preserve quebecs heritage) lends to government support to keep the cultures seperate causes multiculturalism is seperate from integration.
But in the US the story is quite different. Multicultural heritage is great, and is not imcompatible with integration, as evidenced by the fact that the US has a wide diversity of cultures within it yet among all of these cultures the vast majority subscribe to what can be considered the american culture.
...
hopefully that was clearer.
But in the US the story is quite different. Multicultural heritage is great, and is not imcompatible with integration, as evidenced by the fact that the US has a wide diversity of cultures within it yet among all of these cultures the vast majority subscribe to what can be considered the american culture.
...
hopefully that was clearer.
For most people, the poles of the spectrum are taken to be multiculturalism and assimilation (integration).
So, although I think there is some meaning in what you say, when you post things like "Multicultural heritage is great, and is not imcompatible with integration" it's not hard to see it as an oxymoron.
Which is why I went off on defining your terms above.
Thematic-Device @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:18 pm
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Bart perhaps theres something you don't realize here, in the US we accept and integrate new cultures, and in turn they prescribe to the ideal of american exceptionalism. It is for that reason that the US does not have muslim terrorists.
Uhm, except for the terrorists in Lodi and down the street from my home (relatively speaking) at the Masjid Annur mosque that gave Al Qaeda US$1.5 million in August of 2001 just two weeks prior to 9/11.
Hrmm lets see major domestic terrorists of the US....
The Unabomber, Timothy McVeigh, the KKK... I think im noticing a conservative christian trend somewhere...
The Unabomber was a leftist.
He was a reactionary, only reactionary towards technology.
He was a back to nature Luddite.
The left also gets ALF and, (for those who remember the past, the FLQ).
Which is by its very nature reactionary, which is the extreme side of conservatism. Suggesting that "we go back to a simpler time" is in no way a liberal idea. As for the FLQ I thought we were looking over the US?
Jaime_Souviens @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:21 pm
xerxes xerxes:
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
BBC BBC:
When we speak, no one listens to us - this is the only way we have of making ourselves heard.
Sarkozy said he would "pressure-clean us" - that we were "rabble".
We want Mr Sarkozy to resign, or the violence will continue. He is too scared to come here and talk to us himself. We don't think we'll ever get jobs.
We'd like to be accountants or work in businesses, but we know that as soon as people hear we have Muslim names and that we live on the Mitry estate in Aulnay, we won't even get interviews.
Sarkozy said he would "pressure-clean us" - that we were "rabble".
We want Mr Sarkozy to resign, or the violence will continue. He is too scared to come here and talk to us himself. We don't think we'll ever get jobs.
We'd like to be accountants or work in businesses, but we know that as soon as people hear we have Muslim names and that we live on the Mitry estate in Aulnay, we won't even get interviews.
It's worse than I thought. They want to be accountants.
Would you prefer lawyers?
Lawyers are funnier. They also make loud noises when you herd them off cliffs.
Jaime_Souviens @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:23 pm
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
BBC BBC:
When we speak, no one listens to us - this is the only way we have of making ourselves heard.
Sarkozy said he would "pressure-clean us" - that we were "rabble".
We want Mr Sarkozy to resign, or the violence will continue. He is too scared to come here and talk to us himself. We don't think we'll ever get jobs.
We'd like to be accountants or work in businesses, but we know that as soon as people hear we have Muslim names and that we live on the Mitry estate in Aulnay, we won't even get interviews.
Sarkozy said he would "pressure-clean us" - that we were "rabble".
We want Mr Sarkozy to resign, or the violence will continue. He is too scared to come here and talk to us himself. We don't think we'll ever get jobs.
We'd like to be accountants or work in businesses, but we know that as soon as people hear we have Muslim names and that we live on the Mitry estate in Aulnay, we won't even get interviews.
It's worse than I thought. They want to be accountants.
The fascinating thing is what they want is not more handouts and freebies, but a real chance to make something of themselves in this world.
Which brings up a new topic, 'till now unmentioned.
The cause?
French racism.
Jaime_Souviens @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:25 pm
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
The Unabomber was a leftist.
He was a reactionary, only reactionary towards technology.
He was a back to nature Luddite.
The left also gets ALF and, (for those who remember the past, the FLQ).
Which is by its very nature reactionary, which is the extreme side of conservatism. Suggesting that "we go back to a simpler time" is in no way a liberal idea. As for the FLQ I thought we were looking over the US?
Why limit a Canadian forum to the US?
So environmentalists are all conservative?
If you're not even going to take your head out of the t.v. to respond, why should I respond?
themasta @ Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:51 am
Constantinople Constantinople:
themasta themasta:
xerxes xerxes:
Last time the French did that, a revolution happened. It only brought about the Reign of Terror and the Napoleonic Wars. No big deal.
France was strongest when under the rule of Napoleon. Can't hurt.
Actually, it was probably strongest when it was under the rule of Hitler.
But it wasn't French. When Hitler conquered France it became a part of the Third Reich.
Constantinople @ Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:53 am
themasta themasta:
Constantinople Constantinople:
themasta themasta:
xerxes xerxes:
Last time the French did that, a revolution happened. It only brought about the Reign of Terror and the Napoleonic Wars. No big deal.
France was strongest when under the rule of Napoleon. Can't hurt.
Actually, it was probably strongest when it was under the rule of Hitler.
But it wasn't French. When Hitler conquered France it became a part of the Third Reich.
Still France as Austria was still Austria.
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