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In a perfect world there would be no countries, no patriotism, and not ruling classes, but humans aren't perfect, and thus the world most likely wont be perfect. What I hate is that people are looking back to the 1940s like people had the same viewpoints as they do today. In the 1940s countries were still involved in imperialism, and it's Japan that basically started World War 2 when they invaded manchuria, but now I have this guy on here telling me how bad the US is for bombing Japan. Japan was a brutal country, and I think people forget that because of their present day peaceful image. Japan used to be an imperialist, ill fuck you up, don't mess with me country, and nuking two of their cities was a big economic blow to them, and also was probably the most reasonable way to end the war with less casualties than would have come from attacking the mainland. Killing people is never right, but when a war is being fought it's either you or them. The Japanese weren't going to surrender either, they had plans to blow up the panama canal, and were even planning on doing a dirty bomb in the US. People really do forget who Japan used to be. This whole arguement about weither Japan should have been bombed seems to me like saying weither Germany should have been bombed, or how terrible the US is for killing any german civilians. People die in wars, and as stupid as wars are, would you all have rather Germany and Japan won?

   

Why the atomic bombings were necessary

The Planned Attack Of The Japanese Homelands (Operation Olympic)

Before the conclusion of the war, plans were maturing for the invasion and occupation of the main Japanese islands. Two major operations were projected: the first, with the code name of "Olympic," against southern Kyushu; after consolidation there, the next-"Coronet"-into the Tokyo plain area which is the industrial heart of Japan. The amphibious parts of these operations-involving the preparation of landing beaches by mine sweeping, underwater demolition teams, bombardment and bombing; the transportation of the assault troops; and the initial landing for the establishment of firmly held beachheads-were to have been the responsibility of Fleet Admiral Nimitz.

The large-scale bombardments and bombings of the Third Fleet that began on 10 July were actually in preparation for operation "Olympic." In mid-August, as the war ended, the United States Navy had in the Pacific 90 percent of its combatant vessels of submarine size or larger and 42 per cent of its combatant aircraft. These ships, aircraft, support auxiliaries and landing craft included:


Battleships - 23
Aircraft carriers - 26
Escort carriers - 64
Cruisers - 52
Destroyers - 323
Escort vessels - 298
Submarines - 181
Mine craft - 160
Auxiliary vessels - 1,060
Large landing craft - 2,783
Combat aircraft 1- 4,847
Transport, training and utility aircraft - 1,286


All six marine divisions, or 100 per cent of the Marine Corps combat strength, were also available for Pacific operations. The "Olympic" and "Coronet" operations as planned would have been the largest amphibious operations in history. While the third Fleet provided strategic cover and support for the amphibious forces making the invasion, the Fifth Fleet was to have executed the amphibious phases of the invasions of Kyushu and Honshu by transporting their troops and equipment to the attack position on shore. By the application of naval force they would have established the necessary ground troops in positions favorable for further maneuvers to complete the destruction of Japanese ground forces.

In discharging its responsibilities for the amphibious phase of the Kyushu or "Olympic" operation the United States Navy would have employed more than 3000 combatant and noncombatant vessels of a size larger than personnel landing boats. Although the application of our sea power in its various forms proved sufficient to bring Japan to terms without the necessity of invading her home islands, the possibility of invasion on the scale contemplated indicates the amazing progress in matters of supply and support that had been made in less than four years of war.

The Fifth Fleet under Admiral Spruance would carry our invasion troops. This fleet would consist of almost 3,000 ships, including fast carriers and escort carrier task forces, a gunfire and covering force for bombardment and fire support, and a joint expeditionary force. This expeditionary force would include thousands of additional landing craft of all types and sizes. Several days before the invasion, the battleships, heavy cruisers and destroyers would pour thousands of tons of high explosives into the target areas, and they would not cease the bombardment until after the landing forces had been launched.

During the early morning hours of November 1, 1945, the actual invasion would commence. Thousands of American soldiers and marines would pour ashore on beaches all along the eastern, southeastern, southern and western coasts of Kyushu.

The Eastern Assault Force consisting of the 25th, 33rd and the 41st Infantry Divisions, would land near Miyaski at beaches called Austin, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, and Cord and move inland to attempt to capture this city and its nearby airfield.

The Southern Force consisting of the 1st cavalry Division, the 43rd Division and Americal Division would land inside Ariake Bay at beaches labeled DeSoto, Dusenburg, Essex, Ford, and Franklin and attempt to capture Shibushi and to capture, further inland, the city of Kanoya and its surrounding airfield. On the western shore of Kyushu, at beaches Pontiac, Reo, Rolls Royce, Saxon, Star, Studebaker, Stutz, Winton, and Sephyr, the V Amphibious Corps would land the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th Marine Divisions, sending half of its force inland to Sendai and the other half to the port city of Kagoshima.

On November 4th. The reserve force, consisting of the 81st, and 98th Infantry Division, and the 11th Airborne Division, after feigning an attack on the island of Shikoku would be landed, if not needed elsewhere, near Kaimondake, near the southern-most tip of Kagoshima Bay, at beaches designated Locomobile, Lincoln, LaSalle, Hupomobile, Moon, Mercedes, Maxwell, Overland, Packard, and Plymouth.

The objective of "Olympic" was to seize and control the island of Kyushu in order to use it for the launching platform for "Coronet," which was hoped to be a final blow aimed at Tokyo and the Kanto Plain.

"Olympic" was not just the plan for the invasion, but for conquest and occupation as well. It was expected to take four months to achieve its objective, with three American Divisions per month to be landed in support of that operation if needed. These additional troops were to be taken from the units scheduled for "Coronet."

If all went well with "Olympic," on March 1, 1946, "Coronet" would be launched. "Coronet" would be twice the size of "Olympic," with as many as 28 American Divisions to be landed on Honshu, the main Japanese island.

On March 1, 1946, all along the coast east of Tokyo, then entire 8th and 10th Armies would strike north and east to clear the long western shore of Tokyo Bay, and attempt to go as far as Yokohoma. The assault troops, landing to the south of Tokyo would be the 4th, 6th, 8th, 24th, 31st, 32nd, 37th, 38th, and 87th Infantry Divisions, along with the 13th and 20th Armored Divisions.

Following the initial assault, eight more Divisions--the 2nd, 28th, 35th, 91st, 95th, 97th, and 104th Infantry Divisions and the 11th Airborne Division would be landed. If additional troops were needed, as expected, other Divisions redeployed from Europe and undergoing training in the United States would be shipped to Japan in what was hoped to be the final push.

The key to victory in Japan rested in the success of "Olympic" at Kyushu. Without the success of the Kyushu campaign, "Coronet" might never be launched. The key to victory in Kyushu rested with our firepower, much of which was to be delivered by carrier launched aircraft.

At the onset of the invasion of Kyushu, waves of Helldivers, Dauntless Dive Bombers, Avengers, Corsairs and Hellcats would take off to bomb, rocket and strafe enemy defenses, gun emplacements and troop concentrations along the beaches. In all, there would be 66 aircraft carriers loaded with 2,649 naval and marine aircraft to be used for close-in air support for soldiers hitting the beaches.

These planes were also the fleetís primary protection against Japanese attack from the air. Had "Olympic" begun, these planes would be needed to provide an umbrella of protection for the soldiers and sailors of the invasion. Captured Japanese documents and post-war interrogation of Japanese military leaders disclose that our intelligence concerning the number of Japanese planes available for defense of the home islands were dangerously in error.

In the last months of the war, our military leaders were deathly afraid of the Japanese "kamikaze" and with good cause. During Okinawa alone, Japanese aircraft sank 32 ships and damaged over 400 others. During the summer months, our top brass had concluded that the Japs had spent their air force, since American bombers and fighters flew unmolested over the shores of Japan on a daily basis.

What our military leaders did not know was that by the end of July, 1945, as part of the Japanese overall plan for the defense of their country, they had been saving all aircraft, fuel and pilots in reserve, and had been feverishly building new planes for the decisive battle for their homeland. The Japs had abandoned, for the time, their suicide attacks in order to preserve their pilots and planes to hurl at our invasion fleets.

At the early stage of the invasion, 1,000 Japanese and American soldiers would be dying every hour. The long and difficult task of conquering Kyushu would have made the casualties on both sides enormous and one can only guess at how monumental the casualty figures would have been had the Americans had to repeat their invasion a second time when they landed at heavily fortified and defended Tokyo Plain the following March.

The Commonwealth was going to engage the IJA with Operation Zipper.

The British situation was different. Operation Zipper, to be launched from Ceylon (Sri Lanka) and various parts of India, was planned for September 1945. It was too far advanced to be cancelled and went ahead as an exercise but without naval or aerial bombardments. It entailed landings on the West Coast of the Malay Peninsula north of Port Dickson and south of Port Swettenham (now Kelang). General Robertís XXX1V Indian Corps (5th, 23rd, 25th and 26th Indian Divisions, 3rd Commando Brigade and one Parachute Brigade of the British 6th Airborne Division, comprised a force of more than 100,000 men.

   

You sure do like repyling to your own posts.

I didn't read any of that, much to long. If you can't make your point in a few lines then its not worth making. But im sure i no what most of it said.

"The USA had to fight back blah blah blah, they were attacked blah blah blah, what would you hae done blah blah blah"

Doesn't justify the bomb

   

adam.you are a poster child for what is wrong today..was that short enough for you ?...go to japan today...see how they embrace your white ass

   

You sound to me like a very narrowminded and ignorant person. How old are you, 15? What justifys Japans bombing of pearl harbor? What justifys Japans killing of 300,000 Chinese? You think so unreasonably about war and about world war 2. All you see is one thing the US did, and you go on and on talking about how it was unjustified. If you look at a standpoint of just killing humans, EVERY country was unjustified, but things happened how they did, and it was justified to Americans to bomb their enemy, just like it was justified to Japanese to bomb theirs, and I would much rather have the US win seeing how they treated Japan after the War and how Japan has ended up. Do you think Japan would have done the same? I think they would have done the same thing they did to the Chinese and raped and tortured Americans because they looked at them as barbarians. Oh well, no point in argueing with you cause you think very unreasonably and have no common sense about how world war 2 happened, why it ended, and war in general.

   

Maybe your attention span is too short. I guess you must not be a reader, and it shows in your post.

   

Yes that was nice and short thank you.




Well ill be 20 now in a few weeks.

You can't use what the Japanese did to justify the bomb. Nothing short of Japan dropping a nuke on US soil would justify the bomb. Becasue someone commits an atrocity against you, or others, doesnÂ’t give you the right to commit one against them

   

adam, In 18 yrs.i bet your views change quite a bit....

   

Then why don't you just go ahead and say that world war 2 was completely unjustified instead of being an anti-american asshole. You are just some passive aggressive dreamer. No one in their right mind is going to let an atrocity happen to them without wanting or doing something back. Who says that you don't have the right to do something back to someone if they do you a wrong. Eye for an eye is what I say. Japan killed and raped tons of Chinese, so they got what they had coming. Japan was part of the axis you fucking moron. Im not even going to bother talking to you any more with your "this wasn't justified" stupid ass comments. All you do is say the US is not justified for killing Japanese, but don't say anything else about any other country bombing each other. Weither is was a nuke, or just a huge bombing raid, they are all the same, and the British, Japanese, Americans, Russians, Canadians, and Germans all were a part of it, so shut the fuck up with your stupid anti-american comments. It's so obvious that you have a bias towards the US because you can't let it go that they used a nuke on the country who started world war 2 and attacked them. Was starting world war 2 justified? Was killing tons of Chinese justified? Was attacking pearl harbor justified? It was a war, it happened, the US won against Japan, the US nuked Japan because they had the weapon and Truman could have been commited for treason if he didn't use it, because if the American public knew he had a weapon that could stop the war and let American soldiers die he would be screwed. You obviously are pretty stupid for a 20 yr old, because you know nothing about history, about logical thinking. You are just a dreamer, and dreamers are only good at dreaming. The facts are there, and you ignore them and just focus on the fact that the US used the bomb, and you wont here reasons or anything, just just look at it as unjustified, and that the US had no right to do anything against Japan, but yet Japan had every right to do what they wanted to the US and China. Fuck off you passive agressive, wanna-be hippy, American hating, dickhole.

   

Paragraphs my friendÂ’s, paragraphs.

“An eye for an eye and we'd have a world of blind people"
-Mahatma Gandhi



Now wait just a minute. I totally agree that with the decision to go to war against Germany and Japan, they needed to be stopped. But that had nothing to do with “an eye for an eye”. We had to stop Germany and Japan to preserve peace and freedom. We had to fight them.

   

feeko said,

I dunno, feeko...I have almost twenty years on Adam and my views haven't changed much over that time, or at least not in the way you mean. I've watched the world become a worse place under the power of those who think that greed is good and killing is a legitmate way to make money. I've seen a lot of good people try to defend the actions of the pig-fuckers because they have been told over and over again that it's patriotic and that capitalism and democracy are the same thing.

Those people might be basically good, but they are wrong. They have begun to believe the lies. Democracy and capitalism are not the same thing. Look them up in the dictionary. It is not patriotic to support your country when it does the wrong thing. It is not patriotic to kill for money. It is not patriotic to vote for those who do. Greed is not good.

Adam takes issue with the decision to nuke civilians. He's right to do so. There were options that weren't even considered. There were circumstances that were never explored. Dropping the bomb was not, as it is usually presented and is being presented here, the final and only choice.

The same people criticising Adam for questioning that decision are the ones who scream the loudest about the attack on the World Trade Center. Al Quaeda had declared war on both capitalism and the United States though. They practiced terrorism and killed 3,000 people. The United States has killed far more than 3,000 civilians in Afghanistan, far more than 3,000 civilians in Iraq and killed far more than 3,000 civilians in Japan. The United States killed more than 3,000 people in Chile in events that started on September 11, 1972.

Was it wrong to bomb civilians during World War Two? Fucking right it was. It's wrong to bomb civilians today too. Canada took part in the bombings in the 1940s. There is no reason why we should be making the same mistakes sixty years later.

   

And why shouldn't they be screaming about the attack. War was declared - not by the guys in white hats either but by the guys in black robes. Do you suggest we sit back and wait for the next one?

Dear me, that happened already didn't it.

Now we have a 3/11 - and nary a peep from you or your ilk. Wanna bet there will be another one?

Your capacity to hate the US from the safety of your monitor is truly astounding and sick.

   

Simply 'FIGHTING' terrorism will never work... we westerners have to look at the root of the problem, and the real causes of what is causing this insanity.. not just cut off the head and let the roots grow bigger for a bit until a new head is sprouted.

   

Now though i think we should fight terrorism, it will always be there and there is no getting around it. Look at Isreal, they have been fighting the same terrorists for 50 years.

   

But there are so many forums of terrorism, religious and politician. Trying to find the root of the problem will not always help. There will always be new problems. Free trade, capitalism, democracy, an untied Soviet Union, Catholic vs. protestant. Terrorism for money ot drugs, take your pick.

   

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