Canada Kicks Ass
Are societies worse off when they have God on their side?

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Streaker @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:18 pm

Point:

$1:
Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'

By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems.

The study counters the view of believers that religion is necessary to provide the moral and ethical foundations of a healthy society.

It compares the social peformance of relatively secular countries, such as Britain, with the US, where the majority believes in a creator rather than the theory of evolution. Many conservative evangelicals in the US consider Darwinism to be a social evil, believing that it inspires atheism and amorality.

Many liberal Christians and believers of other faiths hold that religious belief is socially beneficial, believing that it helps to lower rates of violent crime, murder, suicide, sexual promiscuity and abortion. The benefits of religious belief to a society have been described as its “spiritual capital”. But the study claims that the devotion of many in the US may actually contribute to its ills.

The paper, published in the Journal of Religion and Society, a US academic journal, reports: “Many Americans agree that their churchgoing nation is an exceptional, God-blessed, shining city on the hill that stands as an impressive example for an increasingly sceptical world.

“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies.

“The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so.”

Gregory Paul, the author of the study and a social scientist, used data from the International Social Survey Programme, Gallup and other research bodies to reach his conclusions.

He compared social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy.

The study concluded that the US was the world’s only prosperous democracy where murder rates were still high, and that the least devout nations were the least dysfunctional. Mr Paul said that rates of gonorrhoea in adolescents in the US were up to 300 times higher than in less devout democratic countries. The US also suffered from “ uniquely high” adolescent and adult syphilis infection rates, and adolescent abortion rates, the study suggested.

Mr Paul said: “The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America.”

He said that the disparity was even greater when the US was compared with other countries, including France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries. These nations had been the most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion, he added.

Mr Paul delayed releasing the study until now because of Hurricane Katrina. He said that the evidence accumulated by a number of different studies suggested that religion might actually contribute to social ills. “I suspect that Europeans are increasingly repelled by the poor societal performance of the Christian states,” he added.

He said that most Western nations would become more religious only if the theory of evolution could be overturned and the existence of God scientifically proven. Likewise, the theory of evolution would not enjoy majority support in the US unless there was a marked decline in religious belief, Mr Paul said.

“The non-religious, proevolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator.

“The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted.”


Link




Counterpoint:

$1:
Academic Proves Religion Makes America Inferior

In a truly astounding display of bigotry and arrogance, The Times relates the findings of a study that started with the irrefutable (for some) premises that (a) America is excessively religious and (b) America is a horrible place, and arrived at the conclusion that religious belief causes damage to society.

Religion is held accountable for increasing the rates of murder, abortion, sexual promiscuity, and suicide. I'm not kidding, and apparently neither is The Times. If the lie is outrageous enough, people just might believe it — especially if they want to believe it, which Times readers presumably do for such an appalling piece of garbage to make it into their publication.

The study, which appeared in the American academic journal Journal of Religion and Society, wears hatred of America on its sleeve. "Many Americans agree that their churchgoing nation is an exceptional, God-blessed, shining city on the hill that stands as an impressive example for an increasingly sceptical world," the author Gregory Paul curls his lip to sneer, before gloatingly declaring that "the United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so."

Paul's clever research was able to discover that "the least devout nations were the least dysfunctional." Due to an alleged high incidence of syphilis, gonorrhea, and abortion in the USA, Paul couldn't avoid the logical conclusion that these problems are caused by faith. After all, according to Paul, "The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America." Paul found the disparity even greater when comparing the "dysfunctional" US with dreamy places like France.

"I suspect that Europeans are increasingly repelled by the poor societal performance of the Christian states," Paul sniffed. "The Christian states" in this context means the United States.

Personally I suspect that decent people, religious and otherwise, are increasingly repelled by pompous moonbats who try to pass off their bigotry as science.


Link

   



sandorski @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:25 pm

"God" is on my side when I say: There is no "God(s)"

   



BartSimpson @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:38 pm

One thing I'm sure of is that God isn't on Streaker's side.

   



Yogi @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:55 pm

Ive heard it said that "there ain't no athiests in fox holes"!

   



Reverend Blair @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:06 pm

I had a great uncle who became an atheist in a fox hole...or actually on a beach on D-Day...so I've had much faith in that line, Yogi.

   



therookieca @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:11 pm

I belive in God Christianity but i perfer to call myself a follower of Christ. I say this becasue even though people may have problems half of it is their parents are of that religon and they don't want to be it so they have sex and try to defy the religon and that gives you the problems. But I have been with God for years and I would have to say my life has been much better with him around not only have i had a good life but he is just great. Also people who are critian are many times anti themsleves no one ever goes back to what Jesus was teaching that love is the awnser and I think that personally my fellow church goers in my youth group are amazing and we do a much better then job then most churches we do stuff for fun we don'tmake everything the bible dosen't say bad because that is not what Jesus taught!!!!!!!!!!!

   



romanP @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:24 pm

Okay Butters, whatever you say.

   



karra @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:39 pm

My great-grandfather was in the trenches at the Battle of Mons, 1914 - they were overrun by the Germans - the first thing the Brits did was fall to their knees and pray - to God!

   



fifeboy @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:38 pm

karra karra:
My great-grandfather was in the trenches at the Battle of Mons, 1914 - they were overrun by the Germans - the first thing the Brits did was fall to their knees and pray - to God!
Gee, I wonder why they did that :roll: Like were they all non believers before the Germans overran the trenches? Actually, I suspect the thing most of them did was raise their hands and surrender. Those that didn't quickly found out the truth, but failed to report it to the others.

   



fifeboy @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:40 pm

BartSimpson BartSimpson:
One thing I'm sure of is that God isn't on Streaker's side.
And whose side, may I ask, is God on?

   



travior @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:48 pm

Societies are worse off when they use God's name like a sabre without stoping to ask God if it is really what he wants. When someone rushes into a battle saying "God will make me victorious," he might want to make sure that God wants the battle fought in the first place.

Many people have just enough religion and belief in God to doom themselves. Even Satan himself believes in God. The only difference is that Satan will not place himself in the hands of Jesus Christ and trust in Him. You can believe in God and Jesus all you want, but without placing your faith and trust in Him, you are still doomed.

I'll stand by while the Christian-bashing begins...

(Yes, I'm tired and grouchy today. One too many days in a row here at work.)

   



commanderkai @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:58 pm

I'm agreeing with the second article, and I'm even giving Streaker credit for not being anti-American for the first time I've seen on this site. So kudos to you.

To say that just because the United States is somehow suffering because there are more pious isn't a logical argument. At all. I might as well state that because Canada has socialized health care, it creates more rapes. There is no logic to it at all.

Believe in God or Gods or Gaia or the Pasta Monster or whatever else, or even nothing, but stating that those who are more pious has some sort of connection to the flaws of a nation makes no sense, and the reverse is the same thing.

These comparisons are nothing more than anti-religious and anti-American bullcrap which have little, if any, basis in fact.

   



therookieca @ Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:26 am

travior travior:
Societies are worse off when they use God's name like a sabre without stoping to ask God if it is really what he wants. When someone rushes into a battle saying "God will make me victorious," he might want to make sure that God wants the battle fought in the first place.

Many people have just enough religion and belief in God to doom themselves. Even Satan himself believes in God. The only difference is that Satan will not place himself in the hands of Jesus Christ and trust in Him. You can believe in God and Jesus all you want, but without placing your faith and trust in Him, you are still doomed.

I'll stand by while the Christian-bashing begins...

(Yes, I'm tired and grouchy today. One too many days in a row here at work.)


Just so you know Satan is actaully an angel that turned bad against God and because he was so powerful he belived he could overun god but that didn't turn out to well. Now he is banned and evil!
Although i think i agree with you in your opinion! The first paragraph anyway your not very clear in the second one.

   



martin14 @ Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:55 am

But every society has God on their side.

How could they succeed without God's help ?

   



ShepherdsDog @ Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:03 am

therookieca therookieca:
travior travior:
Societies are worse off when they use God's name like a sabre without stoping to ask God if it is really what he wants. When someone rushes into a battle saying "God will make me victorious," he might want to make sure that God wants the battle fought in the first place.

Many people have just enough religion and belief in God to doom themselves. Even Satan himself believes in God. The only difference is that Satan will not place himself in the hands of Jesus Christ and trust in Him. You can believe in God and Jesus all you want, but without placing your faith and trust in Him, you are still doomed.

I'll stand by while the Christian-bashing begins...

(Yes, I'm tired and grouchy today. One too many days in a row here at work.)


Just so you know Satan is actaully an angel that turned bad against God and because he was so powerful he belived he could overun god but that didn't turn out to well. Now he is banned and evil!
Although i think i agree with you in your opinion! The first paragraph anyway your not very clear in the second one.


And you know this how?? At the time of Lot's testing, Lucifer was still in Heaven...so when did this supposed rebellion take place? Most orthodox Jews don't see Satan as evil, just as a being doing his God appointed duty testing the worth of humanity's souls, determining if they are worthy of salvation. Their belief, not mine.

   



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