Women in Islam!
Brenda @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:15 am
And now the Bible? 
novachick @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:24 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
On beating women...
Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."
On the intellectual capabilities of women...
Tabari I:280 "Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."
On polygamy...
Qur'an 4:3 "If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with orphans, marry women of your choice who seem good to you, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to do justice (to so many), then only one, or (a slave) that you possess, that will be more suitable. And give the women their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, eat it with enjoyment, take it with right good cheer and absorb it (in your wealth)."
On equality in the estate...
Qur'an 4:11 "Allah directs you in regard of your Children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females.... These are settled portions ordained by Allah."
On the salvation of women...
Bukhari:V1B22N28 "The Prophet said: ‘I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.' When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, ‘All the favors done for them by their husbands.'"
Ishaq:185 "In hell I saw women hanging by their breasts. They had fathered bastards."
Muslim:B1N142 "‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.' A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah's Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.' Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.'"
On the trustworthiness of women....
Ishaq:584 "Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman."
Ishaq:469 "The Apostle said, ‘Every wailing woman lies except those who wept for Sa'd.'"
Ishaq:496 "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, ‘Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
Bukhari:V4B55N547 "The Prophet said, ‘But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.'"
Bukhari:V3B48N826 "The Prophet said, ‘Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?' The women said, ‘Yes.' He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind.'"
Qur'an 24:6 "And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth." *So a man may swear four times that he is telling the truth and his word must supercede the word of the woman who speaks contrary to him.
Why women must wear veils and why this is not optional...
Qur'an 33:59 "Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better."
Bukhari:V4B52N143
V5B59N523 "When we reached Khaybar, Muhammad said that Allah had enabled him to conquer them. It was then that the beauty of Safiyah was described to him. Her husband had been killed, so Allah's Apostle selected her for himself. He took her along with him till we reached a place called Sad where her menses were over and he took her for his wife, consummating his marriage to her, and forcing her to wear the veil.'"
Qur'an 24:31 "Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands..."
What to do with a nasty girl...
Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."
Treating women like chattel...
Bukhari:V5B59N524 "The Muslims said among themselves, ‘Will Safiyah be one of the Prophet's wives or just a lady captive and one of his possessions?'"
Ishaq:593 "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another."
The license to rape...
Qur'an 24:34 "Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here's the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving."
Tabari VIII:62
Ishaq:496 "Ali [Muhammad's adopted son, son-in-law, and future Caliph] said, ‘Prophet, women are plentiful. You can get a replacement, easily changing one for another.'"
This would be what Scrappy is talking about.
Any other questions, Lily?
Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."
On the intellectual capabilities of women...
Tabari I:280 "Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."
On polygamy...
Qur'an 4:3 "If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with orphans, marry women of your choice who seem good to you, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to do justice (to so many), then only one, or (a slave) that you possess, that will be more suitable. And give the women their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, eat it with enjoyment, take it with right good cheer and absorb it (in your wealth)."
On equality in the estate...
Qur'an 4:11 "Allah directs you in regard of your Children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females.... These are settled portions ordained by Allah."
On the salvation of women...
Bukhari:V1B22N28 "The Prophet said: ‘I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.' When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, ‘All the favors done for them by their husbands.'"
Ishaq:185 "In hell I saw women hanging by their breasts. They had fathered bastards."
Muslim:B1N142 "‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.' A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah's Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.' Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.'"
On the trustworthiness of women....
Ishaq:584 "Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman."
Ishaq:469 "The Apostle said, ‘Every wailing woman lies except those who wept for Sa'd.'"
Ishaq:496 "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, ‘Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
Bukhari:V4B55N547 "The Prophet said, ‘But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.'"
Bukhari:V3B48N826 "The Prophet said, ‘Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?' The women said, ‘Yes.' He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind.'"
Qur'an 24:6 "And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth." *So a man may swear four times that he is telling the truth and his word must supercede the word of the woman who speaks contrary to him.
Why women must wear veils and why this is not optional...
Qur'an 33:59 "Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better."
Bukhari:V4B52N143
V5B59N523 "When we reached Khaybar, Muhammad said that Allah had enabled him to conquer them. It was then that the beauty of Safiyah was described to him. Her husband had been killed, so Allah's Apostle selected her for himself. He took her along with him till we reached a place called Sad where her menses were over and he took her for his wife, consummating his marriage to her, and forcing her to wear the veil.'"
Qur'an 24:31 "Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands..."
What to do with a nasty girl...
Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."
Treating women like chattel...
Bukhari:V5B59N524 "The Muslims said among themselves, ‘Will Safiyah be one of the Prophet's wives or just a lady captive and one of his possessions?'"
Ishaq:593 "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another."
The license to rape...
Qur'an 24:34 "Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here's the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving."
Tabari VIII:62
Ishaq:496 "Ali [Muhammad's adopted son, son-in-law, and future Caliph] said, ‘Prophet, women are plentiful. You can get a replacement, easily changing one for another.'"
This would be what Scrappy is talking about.
Any other questions, Lily?
BartSimpson @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:24 am
Brenda, if you wish to cite the Bible then you must also cite the sect of Judaiism or Christianity that currently adheres to whatever you wish to quote. Elsewise you're merely quoting Levitican laws that not even the Orthodox Jews adhere to anymore. The New Testament, too, has quite a few objectionable passages that no one adheres to anymore. 
hurley_108 @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:25 am
Brenda Brenda:
And now the Bible?
But see, Christians are allowed to ignore the unsavoury parts of the Bible. Muslims aren't allowed to ignore the bad parts of the Koran. If they did, they wouldn't be Muslims, after all. So you see, there is no such thing as a Muslim who doesn't beat his wife, because if he didn't beat his wife, he wouldn't be a Muslim.
Brenda @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:27 am
I don't wish to cite any religion. But... you quote the Kuran's part of "how to beat on women", while in Christianity and whatever religions there are, the books say the same.
I don't get the point of this, obvioulsy. Is this a pissing contest "which religion is worse"? As far as I am concerned, they all have good things and bad things.
Brenda @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:28 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Brenda Brenda:
And now the Bible?
But see, Christians are allowed to ignore the unsavoury parts of the Bible. Muslims aren't allowed to ignore the bad parts of the Koran. If they did, they wouldn't be Muslims, after all. So you see, there is no such thing as a Muslim who doesn't beat his wife, because if he didn't beat his wife, he wouldn't be a Muslim.
Ahhh...
(love the sarcasm...)
hwacker @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:29 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Brenda Brenda:
And now the Bible?
But see, Christians are allowed to ignore the unsavoury parts of the Bible. Muslims aren't allowed to ignore the bad parts of the Koran. If they did, they wouldn't be Muslims, after all. So you see, there is no such thing as a Muslim who doesn't beat his wife, because if he didn't beat his wife, he wouldn't be a Muslim.
Oh JHFC please post where Christians are killing their wives and treating them like cattle. You can't see the difference. Blind bat.
-Mario- @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:32 am
Religion are men made.,,, they are only a vehicule to heaven (for some).
As far as I am concerned.... Debating religion is the same as debating who makes the best cars 
BartSimpson @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:34 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Brenda Brenda:
And now the Bible?
But see, Christians are allowed to ignore the unsavoury parts of the Bible. Muslims aren't allowed to ignore the bad parts of the Koran. If they did, they wouldn't be Muslims, after all. So you see, there is no such thing as a Muslim who doesn't beat his wife, because if he didn't beat his wife, he wouldn't be a Muslim.
Find me an imam who renounces and repudiates these passages the same as I can find Christians who renounce and repudiate the objectionable passages of the Bible.
BartSimpson @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:37 am
-Mario- -Mario-:
Religion are men made.,,, they are only a vehicule to heaven (for some).
As far as I am concerned.... Debating religion is the same as debating who makes the best cars
As far as I am concerned.... Debating religion is the same as debating who makes the best cars
We were not originally debating religions (plural) until the leftists ran up their usual riposte to defend islam when confronted with the irrefutable truth they were asking for:
Oh, yeah? But what about all that stuff in the Bible?
hurley_108 @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:38 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Why women must wear veils and why this is not optional...
Qur'an 33:59 "Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better."
Qur'an 33:59 "Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better."
Just picking this one, and looking to see if there was anything before or after that you may conveniently left out, I found this translation:
$1:
[33:59] O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Nothing in there about only showing one or two eyes. Just a reccomendation that women wear long garments so as to avoid being seen as immodest. Doesn't even say HOW long. I found your translation on a site whose expressed purpose is to fight "Islam's terrorist dogma in Muhammed's own words."
Oh, and this part you quote:
$1:
Qur'an 24:31 "Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands..."
That's basically law in any "Christian country" too. Go bare-breasted in public, and you'll be charged with public indecency.
hurley_108 @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:40 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Brenda Brenda:
And now the Bible?
But see, Christians are allowed to ignore the unsavoury parts of the Bible. Muslims aren't allowed to ignore the bad parts of the Koran. If they did, they wouldn't be Muslims, after all. So you see, there is no such thing as a Muslim who doesn't beat his wife, because if he didn't beat his wife, he wouldn't be a Muslim.
Find me an imam who renounces and repudiates these passages the same as I can find Christians who renounce and repudiate the objectionable passages of the Bible.
So what are you saying, that there's actually no sarcasm in what I wrote? That what I wrote is straight-up truth?
hurley_108 @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:41 am
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Brenda Brenda:
And now the Bible?
But see, Christians are allowed to ignore the unsavoury parts of the Bible. Muslims aren't allowed to ignore the bad parts of the Koran. If they did, they wouldn't be Muslims, after all. So you see, there is no such thing as a Muslim who doesn't beat his wife, because if he didn't beat his wife, he wouldn't be a Muslim.
Oh JHFC please post where Christians are killing their wives and treating them like cattle. You can't see the difference. Blind bat.
Christians don't beat their wives and abuse their children?
Apparently not.
hwacker @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:42 am
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Brenda Brenda:
And now the Bible?
But see, Christians are allowed to ignore the unsavoury parts of the Bible. Muslims aren't allowed to ignore the bad parts of the Koran. If they did, they wouldn't be Muslims, after all. So you see, there is no such thing as a Muslim who doesn't beat his wife, because if he didn't beat his wife, he wouldn't be a Muslim.
Oh JHFC please post where Christians are killing their wives and treating them like cattle. You can't see the difference. Blind bat.
Christians don't beat their wives and abuse their children?
You’re the one divorced with kids, tell me.
Brenda @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:43 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
-Mario- -Mario-:
Religion are men made.,,, they are only a vehicule to heaven (for some).
As far as I am concerned.... Debating religion is the same as debating who makes the best cars
As far as I am concerned.... Debating religion is the same as debating who makes the best cars
We were not originally debating religions (plural) until the leftists ran up their usual riposte to defend islam when confronted with the irrefutable truth they were asking for:
Oh, yeah? But what about all that stuff in the Bible?
You are calling me LEFT?
Oh boy, you have really no freaking clue, do you?
All you are saying is Islam is so bad for everyone. So is Catholisism, imho. When I say that, I get all "western believers" to eat me. So, I better live with the fact islam exists, just as I have to live with the fact ANY religion exists. What do you want me to do? Say Islam sucks, but the rest is soooooooo good, because it is the white westerners that believe in it?
Geesh, get a grip.