Women in Islam!
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novachick @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:44 am
hwacker hwacker:
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Brenda Brenda:
And now the Bible? 
But see, Christians are allowed to ignore the unsavoury parts of the Bible. Muslims aren't allowed to ignore the bad parts of the Koran. If they did, they wouldn't be Muslims, after all. So you see, there is no such thing as a Muslim who doesn't beat his wife, because if he didn't beat his wife, he wouldn't be a Muslim.
Oh JHFC please post where Christians are killing their wives and treating them like cattle. You can't see the difference. Blind bat.
Christians don't beat their wives and abuse their children?
You’re the one divorced with kids, tell me.
Wack that was so far out of line.
-Mario- @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:45 am
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
You’re the one divorced with kids, tell me.
This relates to me how?
I've got it Lily...
hwacker @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:47 am
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Brenda Brenda:
And now the Bible?
But see, Christians are allowed to ignore the unsavoury parts of the Bible. Muslims aren't allowed to ignore the bad parts of the Koran. If they did, they wouldn't be Muslims, after all. So you see, there is no such thing as a Muslim who doesn't beat his wife, because if he didn't beat his wife, he wouldn't be a Muslim.
Oh JHFC please post where Christians are killing their wives and treating them like cattle. You can't see the difference. Blind bat.
Christians don't beat their wives and abuse their children?
You’re the one divorced with kids, tell me.
This relates to me how?
Well personally I don't know any
I figured in support groups you should be able to provide ample examples.
novachick @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:49 am
-Mario- -Mario-:
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
You’re the one divorced with kids, tell me.
This relates to me how?
I've got it Lily...
Thank you I just reported it. First time I've ever done that, see shit like that Wack I'll do it every time.
-Mario- @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:53 am
hwacker hwacker:
Well personally I don't know any
I figured in support groups you should be able to provide ample examples.
I figured in support groups you should be able to provide ample examples.
WTF...
BartSimpson @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:54 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Why women must wear veils and why this is not optional...
Qur'an 33:59 "Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better."
Qur'an 33:59 "Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better."
Just picking this one, and looking to see if there was anything before or after that you may conveniently left out, I found this translation:
$1:
[33:59] O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Nothing in there about only showing one or two eyes. Just a reccomendation that women wear long garments so as to avoid being seen as immodest. Doesn't even say HOW long. I found your translation on a site whose expressed purpose is to fight "Islam's terrorist dogma in Muhammed's own words."
Oh, and this part you quote:
$1:
Qur'an 24:31 "Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands..."
That's basically law in any "Christian country" too. Go bare-breasted in public, and you'll be charged with public indecency.
First off, you need to find a translation that is as close to Arabic as possible. Better yet, learn Arabic and read the koran in Arabic. I did.
And laws about public decency that are ignored in about every one-time Christian nation is the best you can come up with?
The USA, as 'Puritanical' as we are often accused of being is home to perfectly legal nudist camps and many of our public beaches in California (at least) allow full nudity.
BartSimpson @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:55 am
lily lily:
Christians don't beat their wives and abuse their children?
Not with the sanction of their churches, they don't.
hwacker @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:55 am
-Mario- -Mario-:
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
You’re the one divorced with kids, tell me.
This relates to me how?
I've got it Lily...
Hey that was an acceptable question. I'm not going to ask a divorced guy that, would I ?
BartSimpson @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:00 am
hwacker hwacker:
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Brenda Brenda:
And now the Bible?
But see, Christians are allowed to ignore the unsavoury parts of the Bible. Muslims aren't allowed to ignore the bad parts of the Koran. If they did, they wouldn't be Muslims, after all. So you see, there is no such thing as a Muslim who doesn't beat his wife, because if he didn't beat his wife, he wouldn't be a Muslim.
Oh JHFC please post where Christians are killing their wives and treating them like cattle. You can't see the difference. Blind bat.
Christians don't beat their wives and abuse their children?
You’re the one divorced with kids, tell me.
Edit: Okay, I had to think about this - I'm giving hwack the benefit of the doubt here and wondering if he meant this in the context of asking if such things happened in a secular family.
If this was not a personal comment then it definitely needed a lot more detail to clarify it as I would take this personally were it said to me.
hwacker @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:05 am
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
-Mario- -Mario-:
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
You’re the one divorced with kids, tell me.
This relates to me how?
I've got it Lily...
Hey that was an acceptable question. I'm not going to ask a divorced guy that, would I ?
If you're suggesting that women divorce their husbands because of abuse, check the divorce rates and think about whether you really want to continue this line of drbate.
You're not helping your point at all.
and for the record, I didn't report either post.
That’s exactly what I’m saying, but not the part about Christians. Because personally I don't know any that I went to catholic junior, middle and high school that did.
BartSimpson @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:05 am
lily lily:
and for the record, I didn't report either post.
I doubt it would be necessary as this thread is probably the mods pet project right now and they're all sitting around
and ![[popcorn]](./images/smilies/popcorn.gif "Eating Popcorn")
right now.
hurley_108 @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:12 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
First off, you need to find a translation that is as close to Arabic as possible. Better yet, learn Arabic and read the koran in Arabic. I did.
Then why don't you provide your own translation rather than a canned C&P? Since this is a subject in which you're so well versed, I expect you have an Arabic Koran handy and could translate for us that verse in just a few minutes.
$1:
And laws about public decency that are ignored in about every one-time Christian nation is the best you can come up with?
The USA, as 'Puritanical' as we are often accused of being is home to perfectly legal nudist camps and many of our public beaches in California (at least) allow full nudity.
The USA, as 'Puritanical' as we are often accused of being is home to perfectly legal nudist camps and many of our public beaches in California (at least) allow full nudity.
Gimme a frikkin break, if breasts are just fine, then why are there such frequent uproars about breastfeeding? And if you were a woman, I'd challenge you to go for a day with no shirt and no bra on. Go to the mall. Go to the supermarket. Walk down the street. See what happens.
Even if you're not arrested, the law is on the books, and I doubt you could report that there was nobody offended by such behaviour.
hwacker @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:33 am
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
-Mario- -Mario-:
lily lily:
hwacker hwacker:
You’re the one divorced with kids, tell me.
This relates to me how?
I've got it Lily...
Hey that was an acceptable question. I'm not going to ask a divorced guy that, would I ?
If you're suggesting that women divorce their husbands because of abuse, check the divorce rates and think about whether you really want to continue this line of drbate.
You're not helping your point at all.
and for the record, I didn't report either post.
That’s exactly what I’m saying, but not the part about Christians. Because personally I don't know any that I went to catholic junior, middle and high school that did.
First off - people get divorced for all sorts of reasons, abuse being just one.
Second - Catholics aren't allowed to divorce so many people stay in marriages that they really shouldn't. If they do divorce, some churches will shun them, regardless of the reasons. This may have relaxed somewhat over the years, but I know one Catholic woman who was crushed that her church literally turned its back on her at a time when she needed it the most. (she since switched to the Baptist church)
Finally - I think you'd be surprised at how common abuse is. Most people are very good at hiding it, so just because you don't know anyone... doesn't mean no-one you know isn't abusive.
So your life experiences do open you up to circumstances that I would not see. nice to know.
Blue_Nose @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:37 am
hwacker hwacker:
So your life experiences do open you up to circumstances that I would not see. nice to know.
Yeah, like marriage.
BartSimpson @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:50 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
First off, you need to find a translation that is as close to Arabic as possible. Better yet, learn Arabic and read the koran in Arabic. I did.
Then why don't you provide your own translation rather than a canned C&P? Since this is a subject in which you're so well versed, I expect you have an Arabic Koran handy and could translate for us that verse in just a few minutes.
I'm not dodging you here and I fully expect Ali to support me on this that there are many concepts and metaphors in Arabic that don't translate into English too well. It's a difficult thing to explain but you don't just read the koran when you read it in Arabic, you feel it. That, IMHO, is a great part of why islam is so compelling is that reading the koran in Arabic is not a mere exploration of writings and facts but an exploration of what mohammed actually felt - it is a very emotional experience that simply does not translate. So when you're looking for a translation you want something that doesn't just state words but also the metaphors and concepts that are presented in the Arabic text.
hurley_108 hurley_108:
$1:
And laws about public decency that are ignored in about every one-time Christian nation is the best you can come up with?
The USA, as 'Puritanical' as we are often accused of being is home to perfectly legal nudist camps and many of our public beaches in California (at least) allow full nudity.
The USA, as 'Puritanical' as we are often accused of being is home to perfectly legal nudist camps and many of our public beaches in California (at least) allow full nudity.
Gimme a frikkin break, if breasts are just fine, then why are there such frequent uproars about breastfeeding? And if you were a woman, I'd challenge you to go for a day with no shirt and no bra on. Go to the mall. Go to the supermarket. Walk down the street. See what happens.
Even if you're not arrested, the law is on the books, and I doubt you could report that there was nobody offended by such behaviour.
Things are changing. In California it is now 100% legal to breastfeed in public places and some shopping malls have gotten into trouble for telling women who are breastfeeding to leave. Give it twenty years and breastfeeding will be perfectly acceptable everywhere.
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