Women in Islam!

So do I.

I just don't think we can blame an entire religion. And if it looks I defend Islam, no, I am not. I just can't stand generalization. If I don't do what I am doing now, I betray my friends. They did nothing wrong.

(holy, I don't know how I can say that best, so I hope you understand...)

I don't blame all of the people, but I do blame the religion.

Understand that the people you call moderates are called heretics in many arenas of islam.

The fundamentalists (who are gaining in numbers in every muslim majority country) have a very strong appeal because within the context of their culture (not just their religion, but their culture) they're on the side of the prophet and it is very, very difficult for anyone to summon the wherewithal to criticize them.

Let me give you a for instance as a comparison...

The Canadians who want to assert sovereignty in the Northwest Passage are unified across partisan lines, tribal lines, political lines, linguistic lines, and even cultural lines.

It's hard to criticize even the most fervent Canadian nationalist who says that Canada should control Canada.

Okay, now I know this is a completely different thing, but when a muslim agitates for a deeper faith, for a deeper committment to the faith, for people to engage in both spiritual and physical struggles against perceived evils it is likewise difficult for muslims to fathom a reason to criticise them.

The people you interpret as moderates don't necessarily see the fundamentalists as being wrong any more than some fallen-away Christians see devout Christians as wrong.

The moderate muslims and the fallen-away Christians have a lot in common that although they don't fully practice their respective faiths they don't necessarily see a lot wrong with those who do.

And if you read the koran - something I consistently encourage people to do who wish to weigh in on this subject - you'll gain some very important and practical perspective on them.

Whether you agree with me or not I encourage you to read the koran and then, if you wish, go on and read the hadith (at least) and then you'll understand a lot of the things that happen in front of you yet have no meaning to you. When the meanings are understood you'll see some if not many muslim actions and behaviors in a new light.

If you go so far as to start reading their modern writings you'll sometimes find yourself mystified as they write of events and wrongs that happened a thousand years ago as if they happened yesterday.

I attended a lecture in Amman back in 2000 where the lecturer was supposed to be talking about Dead Sea archaealogy and he went off on a tangent about the Israelis attacking Jericho and I honestly was concerned that a war had literally broken out that morning the way the man was going on. Turns out he was talking about what Israel did four thousand years ago.

These folks seriously get fired up about things that happened that long ago.

I say this to give you an idea that you can't just utter a politically correct euphemism and then say that you understand your neighbors while not knowing any of the things that they passionately believe in.

You don't pretend to understand Australian aborigines (I'm sure) yet you'll find that they are much less complicated to understand than most muslims and especially most Arab muslims.

I know this seems to be a contradiction on my part, but trust me when I say that the muslim mind in general is far more complex than most westerners give them credit for. I'm the one saying that they are very complex and nuanced people who rate more than just a cursory study before anyone decides that they know anything about muslims, Arabs, or islam.

Do you think every muslim is getting so deep into their religion? I mean, I know Christians and Christians, and some go to church every week and think it is good enough, and some read the bible to their kids before every meal. The last guy is a bit more extreme than the first...

I said it before, I understand where you are coming from, I applaud your willingness to study this, but still... the generalization is just not fair.

When you say you blame the religion, you say you blame everybody who believes in it. If I say that about Christianity, my head will be bitten off ;-)

Personally, with all do respect, I think you are just as radical with your anti-muslim (I was gonna say propaganda, but that is not the word I am looking for) speech, as a radical imam is with his hate speeches against the West.

Of course I hate all the wars that are going on, of course I don't like the hangings over (to us) nothing, the killings of honour because she slept with the man she loved. I don't agree with that. And I don't agree with the white psychopath who killed an old lady for 10 bucks either. I know, we shouldn't compare that, but I still think most (!) of the muslims living in the West, are here for a reason. They are not in Iraq, or in the mountains of Morocco anymore, because they chose a better life. And in the West ,they can have that. They can still pray, they can work their job, and just live their lifes. What is wrong with it? They don't think I am a whore, because I don't wear a headscarf. They are them, I am me, and that is fine.

You can call that PC, of course. I always try to see the best in people, and give them the benefit of the doubt. I just refuse to say: you are muslim, SO you are evil.

women

Just read the words...

DEF LEPPARD LYRICS

"Two Steps Behind (Electric Version)"

Walk away if you want to
It's ok, if you need to
You can run, but you can never hide
edit(cause I got an ak47)
See my shadow come creeping up beside you
There's a magic running through your soul
But you can't have it all
edit (cause you are woman and I won't let you)
Whatever you do
I'll be two steps behind you
Wherever you go
and I'll be there to remind you
(edit )you are my property)
that it only takes a minute of your precious time
(edit )to suck my dick
to turn around and I'll be two steps behind.

Take the time
and think about it
Walk the line, you just can't fight it
Look around and see what you can find
(edit )nuf sed?
Like a fire that's burning up inside me,
There's a magic running through your soul
But you can't have it all

nice hair btw.. :wink:

Bart you sounds like you have had some losses and therefore are looking for answers or a reason why did people do this. To look it at the perpetrators perspective many Muslims probably think you are evil for being an American and living in a country that lets women walk around half naked and allows homosexuals to frolic freely. To them the west is intruding on their countries and culture and therefore the Koran can be interpreted of allowing them to defend themselves and remove the wicked people like yourself who associate amongst them from the world.

Not much different than the Bible that has seen much of its own death, destruction, and so on. In the end though a book is a book and you have free will and what you do in life is really your own personal choice. I could invade your country screaming that it is in the name of God too but it would still be my choice to do so and my own personal damnation. Do not be blinded by those who hide behind the cross or the book in their hand. Punish not those who affiliate with literature but condemn the personages for their malefactions they have acted out in the name of it.

I for one think this newbie is a TROLL, he starts Islamic threads promising to answer questions but doesn't. I also noticed that out of the ten forums I read (nine Canadian one American) five of them have had so called Moderate Muslims join these forums in the past forty eigth hours. Like this so called Moderate Muslim "Ali" they start repeated threads on Islam but don't return to answers the questions poised. WHY? Something stinks in Sweden, pardon the pun.

I smell a rat, in fact something stinks to high heavens. Is this forum being set up for something? Ask yourself has Ali made an honest attempt (excluding his intro thread) to have a debate? NO. He's started all the Muslim threads, why? As a so called moderate shouldn't he be interested in real life instead of telling me what a moderate is? I already know what a moderate muslim is, a decent loyal hard working members of my community. They don't pray five times a day, why because they work for a living. It's not the employer's responsibility to accomadate religion, they respect that and work hard.

Now back to the OP, here's what MUSLIM women think regarding Islam and it's treatment of women. It's okay if the left/left scream, that's what they do. Imagine a Muslim women telling the left/left what is wrong with THEIR religion, instead of the left/left forcing their twisted version of what Islam is.

Link:
http://www.middleastwomen.org/html/bull ... tin-35.htm