Canada Kicks Ass
Alberta Election

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Dragon-Dancer @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:19 am

Bruce_E_T Bruce_E_T:
I think that minority governments are a good thing in times of political uncertainty or voter indecision. You can sort of put the brakes on government and give both the parties and the electorate a chance to re- think things.

There is a dark side however. In ON right now there is a recently elected Liberal government which is one seat short of a majority. They table a budget and the PC's say right off they won't support it. The NDP leader says 'Hmmm. Let me talk to people first'. Now she is drawing up a list of demands/changes with which her party will support and thus pass the budget.

WTF?! How does a third place party get this sort of influence? (called a King maker)

Anyhow I sent my MPP a note to the effect that this was crap and just go ahead with an election if that is what it takes. :evil:


That's just good politics on the part of a governing minority government. It's what it takes to make government work for everyone. I can't possibly see it as a downside when a sitting government is forced to play nice in order to get something done. Just remember that third party members are still elected officials so they still represent a portion of the population who want to see at least some of their policies brought forward. In Canada at least if a minority doesn't like the terms one party brings up for support of a bill then they can always try and court another.
The NDP has been quite successful in this position over the years because they know how to work with others.

Harper never seemed to understand that as a minority government, which is why his minorities never really got much work done. His claim to need a majority to get anything done was bull but he got one anyway.

   



peck420 @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:24 am

eureka eureka:
What about Smith's proposed "Conscience Rights." I would have thought that would generate a great deal of comment and discussion.


You mean her reference to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

Article 2.(a)

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/charter/page-1.html#l_I:s_2

No, I don't have any serious problem with allowing all citizens to use that clause equally.

Will it cause some initial disruptions? Absolutely, but I have every confidence that our market (even in the areas that are not 'free') is more than capable of adapting and servicing all willing customers.

Edit to add:

I'm more shocked that we have been able to restrict this particular right, when it is expressly identified, this long without challenge.

   



Dragon-Dancer @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:40 am

peck420 peck420:
eureka eureka:
What about Smith's proposed "Conscience Rights." I would have thought that would generate a great deal of comment and discussion.


You mean her reference to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

Article 2.(a)

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/charter/page-1.html#l_I:s_2

No, I don't have any serious problem with allowing all citizens to use that clause equally.

Will it cause some initial disruptions? Absolutely, but I have every confidence that our market (even in the areas that are not 'free') is more than capable of adapting and servicing all willing customers.

Edit to add:

I'm more shocked that we have been able to restrict this particular right, when it is expressly identified, this long without challenge.



I don't see how it's being restricted now.

   



peck420 @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:51 am

Dragon-Dancer Dragon-Dancer:
I don't see how it's being restricted now.


As it currently stands, they are a couple of careers that allow the career credos or oaths to supercede the Charter.

Most notable is Doctors, Pharmacists, etc.

For doctors, they must abide by the Hippocratic and serve all people to the best of their ability, even if the treatment recommended would go against their religion or conscience.

Pharmacists must hand out prescribed medicines whether they agree or not.

Etc.

It must not be a very big deal for them, though, I don't think it has been challenged.

This is just a classic example of political, much ado about nothingness, being used to placate those to stupid to know that we already have the legalities in place. Have for a long time too.

This is purely my personal opinion, but if we have rights that must be 'overlooked', to produce wanted results in society, we have a problem with how the right is written...not necessarily with the idea of the right, just how it is written.

   



Alta_redneck @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:02 am

Thanos Thanos:
QR77's been so openly in favour of Wildrose that it's kind of nauseating. Just more proof as far as I'm concerned that talk-radio has nothing to do with news or information and everything to do with ideological one-sided propaganda.


I agree 100% with you Thanos, Rutherford has pretty well turned me off of the WR. Now it's getting to the point where I just want to vote PC just to piss him off, it's a way past nauseating.

For as much as I'm unhappy with the orange and blue, I can't vote for the soccer mom in my riding. We've got new roads that have been on the 20 year plan, some for close to 40 years, my mother is in a brand new assisted living facility in our home town, we have a new Middle School, our little rural hospital is being turn into the new eye surgery center for central Alberta, all thanks to the PC's. I got to vote for them one more time.

   



Dragon-Dancer @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:12 am

peck420 peck420:
As it currently stands, they are a couple of careers that allow the career credos or oaths to supersede the Charter.

Most notable is Doctors, Pharmacists, etc.

For doctors, they must abide by the Hippocratic and serve all people to the best of their ability, even if the treatment recommended would go against their religion or conscience.

Pharmacists must hand out prescribed medicines whether they agree or not.

Etc.

It must be a very big deal for them, though, I don't think it has been challenged.

This is just a classic example of political, much ado about nothingness, being used to placate those to stupid to know that we already have the legalities in place. Have for a long time too.

This is purely my personal opinion, but if we have rights that must be 'overlooked', to produce wanted results in society, we have a problem with how the right is written...not necessarily with the idea of the right, just how it is written.


They aren't overlooking rights at all i think. I'm no lawyer but just glancing at the charter I would say in the case of doctors their oaths are in keeping with 7 (see below) and couldn't possibly.

$1:
7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.


To allow doctors to refuse on the basis of conscience or religious objection to treating a patient could deny that patient the right to life.

   



eureka @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:53 am

What it will do is allow Marriage commissioners to refuse to marry same sex couple: to allow Pharmacists to refuse to sell condoms. You can probably come up with more examples.

could it apply to abortion?

   



peck420 @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:42 pm

Dragon-Dancer Dragon-Dancer:
They aren't overlooking rights at all i think. I'm no lawyer but just glancing at the charter I would say in the case of doctors their oaths are in keeping with 7 (see below) and couldn't possibly.

$1:
7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.


To allow doctors to refuse on the basis of conscience or religious objection to treating a patient could deny that patient the right to life.


Hmm, than which right is more important?

Is it the individuals right of freedom and conscience or the individuals right to life, liberty and security, or will it be the right to fair and equal treatment?

Do we give weight based on their numerical listing? I jest...kind of.

   



andyt @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:45 pm

We've pretty well settled that, I thought. You can't discriminate just because your conscience tells you to do so.

   



peck420 @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:53 pm

andyt,

I don't so much disagree with that, as think that if that is the case, it should be removed from the charter.

You should know by now that I like clean, simple rights and laws. I know, not that probable in a complex world.

   



andyt @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:58 pm

Can't agree. Aren't you part black? (In the US at least that would make you all black). Are you really OK with somebody not wanting to rent to you, or operate on you for that matter, because their conscience says not to?

   



peck420 @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:08 pm

andyt,

$1:
Are you really OK with somebody not wanting to rent to you, or operate on you for that matter, because their conscience says not to?


Am I okay with it? What do you think.

I'm not okay with half the stuff that gets covered by freedom of speech either.

Should we get rid of that too, because it can hurt my feelings?

   



Curtman @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:32 pm

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Curtman Curtman:
I would say the closer you get to cowboy hats, rodeos, and Rob Anders the chances of encountering a racist increase exponentially.


Seriously? Right there in that very reply you called every Calgarian, if not every Albertan a Racist. Plain as day.


Plain as day? Methinks thou dost protest too much. Are you Rob Anders in real life? Is every Calgarian Rob Anders? 8O

   



Thanos @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:45 pm

Knock it off, pothead. You don't have the slightest idea of what you're talking about. You don't live here and no one who does cares what you think or say, so just piss off already with your bigotted anti-Alberta bullshit routine. :evil:

   



SprCForr @ Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:55 pm

:lol:

They can yabble all they want, it doesn't have anything to do with them and everything to do with us.

Our province, our choice.

   



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