Canada's Anti-Americanism
Banff @ Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:30 am
This is the most sensible thing I've read here : whose failure to regulate financial institutions caused the...
I'm probably the only person in the world maybe even the universe , who believes failure to regulate fanancial institutions is the number 1 failure of a country to the majority of its people .
bootlegga @ Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:25 am
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
Washington Times | October 10, 2006
Our friendly neighbor to the north has some weird ideas about the events of September 11, 2001, in which nearly 3,000 innocent people were killed. To be specific, a Canadian polling company, Ipsos-Reid, put this question to 887 respondents:
"Some think that '9-11' was a terrorist attack that signaled the beginning of a powerful global movement led by fanatics who want to destroy all Western-style, affluent democracies because they hate their ideals and values, symbolized by most of the United States.
"Others believe that 9/11 was a terrorist attack that was, and continues to be, a very specific reaction by certain groups of people to foreign policies of the United States government in certain parts of the word, and have now been extended to its allies such as Britain because it supports the United States.
"Which of these options comes closer to your point of view?"
The answers were astounding:
"53 per cent of Canadians thought that 9/11 was a specific reaction to United States foreign policies.
"36 percent of Canadians said 9/11 signaled an attack on all Western-style democracies."
In other words, more than half of Canada blames the United States for September 11. And blame comes close to justification of a monstrous deed, a terrorist act against innocent people, putting the blame not on the criminals but on the victims. A writer in the Toronto National Post said:
"It leads me to think of ancient Carthage, when people practiced human sacrifice to appease their gods and to vent off their frustration when their harvests were decimated by droughts, pests etc. But over time, people learned that human sacrifices were simply not an option.
"Yet now in the 2lst century, 53 percent of us [Canadians] accept that suffering or frustration due to some country's policies could justify killing scores of innocent civilians. What happened to our moral compass, fellow Canadians, if half of us appear ready to justify the murderers by putting blame on someone else?"
The fact that both our countries engage in a billion-plus dollar a day cross-border trade, which favors Canada far more than the United States, was irrelevant to the previous Canadian government.
Even worse, the Ipsos poll shows more than one-fifth, 22 percent, of those Canadians polled believe September 11 was "actually orchestrated by a group of highly influential Americans who intended to profit, gain power and protect Osama bin Laden." Among Canadian elites, especially the federal bureaucracy that runs Canada, the United States is regarded as an enemy, untrustworthy and a challenge to Canadian national security. One of its leaders, the late Pierre Trudeau, a Canadian prime minister in the 1970s, looked upon the U.S. as a far greater menace to his country than the Soviet Union. Trudeau, who presumably worried about human rights, had an open admiration for Fidel Castro whom he visited and called "Comandante." The fact Fidel had executed and jailed Cubans who opposed his totalitarian regime didn't bother Trudeau; not in the slightest. America was the enemy.
A later prime minister, Paul Martin, had an open visceral dislike of the United States. The husband of the Canadian governor-general has written a documentary that claims the 1980 U.S. presidential election was a fraud.
The new Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, is a conservative. He is seeking to repair the damaged relationship between our two countries. But his is a minority government, defined as one that emerges from an election with fewer seats in the House of Commons than the combined total of all other parties. As such, the Harper government could fall at anytime as have eight Canadian minority governments since the Great War.
Let us hope for our sake Mr. Harper defies Canadian history.
Our friendly neighbor to the north has some weird ideas about the events of September 11, 2001, in which nearly 3,000 innocent people were killed. To be specific, a Canadian polling company, Ipsos-Reid, put this question to 887 respondents:
"Some think that '9-11' was a terrorist attack that signaled the beginning of a powerful global movement led by fanatics who want to destroy all Western-style, affluent democracies because they hate their ideals and values, symbolized by most of the United States.
"Others believe that 9/11 was a terrorist attack that was, and continues to be, a very specific reaction by certain groups of people to foreign policies of the United States government in certain parts of the word, and have now been extended to its allies such as Britain because it supports the United States.
"Which of these options comes closer to your point of view?"
The answers were astounding:
"53 per cent of Canadians thought that 9/11 was a specific reaction to United States foreign policies.
"36 percent of Canadians said 9/11 signaled an attack on all Western-style democracies."
In other words, more than half of Canada blames the United States for September 11. And blame comes close to justification of a monstrous deed, a terrorist act against innocent people, putting the blame not on the criminals but on the victims. A writer in the Toronto National Post said:
"It leads me to think of ancient Carthage, when people practiced human sacrifice to appease their gods and to vent off their frustration when their harvests were decimated by droughts, pests etc. But over time, people learned that human sacrifices were simply not an option.
"Yet now in the 2lst century, 53 percent of us [Canadians] accept that suffering or frustration due to some country's policies could justify killing scores of innocent civilians. What happened to our moral compass, fellow Canadians, if half of us appear ready to justify the murderers by putting blame on someone else?"
The fact that both our countries engage in a billion-plus dollar a day cross-border trade, which favors Canada far more than the United States, was irrelevant to the previous Canadian government.
Even worse, the Ipsos poll shows more than one-fifth, 22 percent, of those Canadians polled believe September 11 was "actually orchestrated by a group of highly influential Americans who intended to profit, gain power and protect Osama bin Laden." Among Canadian elites, especially the federal bureaucracy that runs Canada, the United States is regarded as an enemy, untrustworthy and a challenge to Canadian national security. One of its leaders, the late Pierre Trudeau, a Canadian prime minister in the 1970s, looked upon the U.S. as a far greater menace to his country than the Soviet Union. Trudeau, who presumably worried about human rights, had an open admiration for Fidel Castro whom he visited and called "Comandante." The fact Fidel had executed and jailed Cubans who opposed his totalitarian regime didn't bother Trudeau; not in the slightest. America was the enemy.
A later prime minister, Paul Martin, had an open visceral dislike of the United States. The husband of the Canadian governor-general has written a documentary that claims the 1980 U.S. presidential election was a fraud.
The new Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, is a conservative. He is seeking to repair the damaged relationship between our two countries. But his is a minority government, defined as one that emerges from an election with fewer seats in the House of Commons than the combined total of all other parties. As such, the Harper government could fall at anytime as have eight Canadian minority governments since the Great War.
Let us hope for our sake Mr. Harper defies Canadian history.
You know what, it was very sad to see 2900 people die on 9/11. But you know what else was sad, seeing 30,000 Iraqis (Bush's own words - CBS / Washington Post) die since 2003. Apparently Dubya never learned two wrongs don't make a right, or maybe he just believes in this kind of math;
1 American = 10 Iraqis
If, as you assert, democracy is for the people by the people, then the majority of Americans are as guilty of that slaughter of Iraqis as fundamentalist Muslims are of 9/11.
9/11 was a combination of both factors, US foreign policy and the rise of Islamic extremism. Otherwise such attacks on US targets (suicide bombers, car bombers, etc) would have occurred in the past, before the USA got involved in the region (say mid-1950s). Suicide bombings did not start on US troops/facilities until the 1980s when they were deployed to Lebanon. Many other Western nations have not had their troops/embassies/facilities targeted at all, or if they did, it wasn't until after they went into Iraq/Afghanistan.
Personally, I'd say that Americans (as a people) are our friends, while their government is at times a great friend and at other times a benevolent enemy, simply because they do what is in their nation's best interests (as it should be with any government). They are a great ally, but they will screw us over if it is in their best interests.
grainfedprairieboy @ Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:12 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
If, as you assert, democracy is for the people by the people, then the majority of Americans are as guilty of that slaughter of Iraqis as fundamentalist Muslims are of 9/11.
In 1974 India detonated a nuclear bomb using plutonium from a research reactor donated by Canada. Canadians were all aghast that India would use our technology in such a fashion after assuring us that it would be for peaceful research purposes only. India denies at the time it is even a bomb. Our naïve donation prompted an arms race in the region that saw China assist Pakistan (who may now be assisting Iran) in the development of their nuclear capabilities and the Chretien government tries to provide China with a “free” reactor in 1996. You should also note that Canada is a signatory to the Vienna Convention on third-party liability and has already obligated its citizens to assume partial financial responsibility in the event of an accident. Now what if someone whose family has died of radiation poisoning through unsafe disposal practices and the Indian government refuses to acknowledge it. Is he then justified in turning his rage on the residents of Chalk River in order that they suffer as he and his villagers have? It is the same logic after all.
Indelible @ Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:39 pm
ok i gotta put in my 2 cents about government vs. people of a country.
you obviously ignored my earlier post about this but i guess i gotta make it more clear.
the people of a country do not get to make decisions about the policies of that country. all they get to do is elect other people to make decisions for them. this is why you can't say that the government and the people are one and the same.
USCAdad @ Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:32 am
Indelible Indelible:
ok i gotta put in my 2 cents about government vs. people of a country.
you obviously ignored my earlier post about this but i guess i gotta make it more clear.
the people of a country do not get to make decisions about the policies of that country. all they get to do is elect other people to make decisions for them. this is why you can't say that the government and the people are one and the same.
you obviously ignored my earlier post about this but i guess i gotta make it more clear.
the people of a country do not get to make decisions about the policies of that country. all they get to do is elect other people to make decisions for them. this is why you can't say that the government and the people are one and the same.
This is a really hard question. I've made a half a dozen starts at an answer. Ultilmatly, I can't completely seperate the history of a people from a history of their government. I believe that the government is one manifestation of the people that abide by it and at least tacitly suport it.
Ultimatly it's our own responsibility. If we can't get government to be reponsive to our needs we need to fix the form of government.
Indelible @ Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:43 pm
$1:
Ultimatly it's our own responsibility. If we can't get government to be reponsive to our needs we need to fix the form of government.
damn straight it does, but if the government by the people becomes government by the government the only way to fix it is revolt. thankfully we aren't at that stage yet.
grainfedprairieboy @ Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:03 pm
Indelible Indelible:
the only way to fix it is revolt. thankfully we aren't at that stage yet.
I don't know about that, I think the last couple of Liberal governments regarded the electorate as quite revolting.
madmatt @ Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:38 pm
If the Americans took their head out of their colective ass for a second they might realise where we're coming from. If they analyzed the points they might see what we're talking about. Of course 9/11 was an attack on the USA itself. Who funded and trained soldiers in middleeastern countries? U.S. Who has been one of the first countries to rush into some middle eastern conflict? The U.S. 9/11 was more then likely the "terrorists" saying "stay the hell out of our business and get your own damn oil. lol. Something to think about... one countries terrorists are another countries freedom fighters.
HyperionTheEvil @ Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:47 pm
madmatt madmatt:
If the Americans took their head out of their colective ass for a second they might realise where we're coming from. If they analyzed the points they might see what we're talking about. Of course 9/11 was an attack on the USA itself. Who funded and trained soldiers in middleeastern countries? U.S. Who has been one of the first countries to rush into some middle eastern conflict? The U.S. 9/11 was more then likely the "terrorists" saying "stay the hell out of our business and get your own damn oil. lol. Something to think about... one countries terrorists are another countries freedom fighters.
Just the usual tired old dogma of liberal hate for America.
"oh its just because the Americans arent as foresighted as us Canadians"
I wonder what justifies the smugness of your statement, other than anti-americanism.
Hardy @ Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:08 am
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
I wonder what justifies the smugness of your statement, other than anti-americanism.
How about we discuss this when a couple of billion people consider Canada to be the foremost threat to world peace? You know, just so the playing field will be level?
$1:
Last Updated: Wednesday, 14 June 2006, 01:43 GMT 02:43 UK
US 'biggest global peace threat'
The Iraq war continues to damage the US image, the survey says
People in European and Muslim countries see US policy in Iraq as a bigger threat to world peace than Iran's nuclear programme, a survey has shown.
The survey by the Pew Research Group also found support for US President George W Bush and his "war on terror" had dropped dramatically worldwide.
Goodwill created by US aid for nations hit by the 2004 tsunami had also faded since last year, the survey found.
The survey questioned 17,000 people in 15 countries, including the US.
US 'biggest global peace threat'
The Iraq war continues to damage the US image, the survey says
People in European and Muslim countries see US policy in Iraq as a bigger threat to world peace than Iran's nuclear programme, a survey has shown.
The survey by the Pew Research Group also found support for US President George W Bush and his "war on terror" had dropped dramatically worldwide.
Goodwill created by US aid for nations hit by the 2004 tsunami had also faded since last year, the survey found.
The survey questioned 17,000 people in 15 countries, including the US.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5077984.stm
Full survey at: http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=252
HyperionTheEvil @ Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:16 am
Hardy Hardy:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
I wonder what justifies the smugness of your statement, other than anti-americanism.
How about we discuss this when a couple of billion people consider Canada to be the foremost threat to world peace? You know, just so the playing field will be level?
$1:
Last Updated: Wednesday, 14 June 2006, 01:43 GMT 02:43 UK
US 'biggest global peace threat'
The Iraq war continues to damage the US image, the survey says
People in European and Muslim countries see US policy in Iraq as a bigger threat to world peace than Iran's nuclear programme, a survey has shown.
The survey by the Pew Research Group also found support for US President George W Bush and his "war on terror" had dropped dramatically worldwide.
Goodwill created by US aid for nations hit by the 2004 tsunami had also faded since last year, the survey found.
The survey questioned 17,000 people in 15 countries, including the US.
US 'biggest global peace threat'
The Iraq war continues to damage the US image, the survey says
People in European and Muslim countries see US policy in Iraq as a bigger threat to world peace than Iran's nuclear programme, a survey has shown.
The survey by the Pew Research Group also found support for US President George W Bush and his "war on terror" had dropped dramatically worldwide.
Goodwill created by US aid for nations hit by the 2004 tsunami had also faded since last year, the survey found.
The survey questioned 17,000 people in 15 countries, including the US.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5077984.stm
Full survey at: http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=252
Ahh the BBC the very definition of nonbiased reporting - and whatever the hell spewglobal is.
the same sort of moral equivalency was used in world wars 1 and 2 to try to make the allies out to be the bad guys. And te appeasers on the allied side were the progenitors for it. Saying that we had been unfair to Germany and Japan
HyperionTheEvil @ Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:17 am
And it was still smug
Hardy @ Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:45 am
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
Hardy Hardy:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
I wonder what justifies the smugness of your statement, other than anti-americanism.
How about we discuss this when a couple of billion people consider Canada to be the foremost threat to world peace? You know, just so the playing field will be level?
$1:
Last Updated: Wednesday, 14 June 2006, 01:43 GMT 02:43 UK
US 'biggest global peace threat'
The Iraq war continues to damage the US image, the survey says
People in European and Muslim countries see US policy in Iraq as a bigger threat to world peace than Iran's nuclear programme, a survey has shown.
The survey by the Pew Research Group also found support for US President George W Bush and his "war on terror" had dropped dramatically worldwide.
Goodwill created by US aid for nations hit by the 2004 tsunami had also faded since last year, the survey found.
The survey questioned 17,000 people in 15 countries, including the US.
US 'biggest global peace threat'
The Iraq war continues to damage the US image, the survey says
People in European and Muslim countries see US policy in Iraq as a bigger threat to world peace than Iran's nuclear programme, a survey has shown.
The survey by the Pew Research Group also found support for US President George W Bush and his "war on terror" had dropped dramatically worldwide.
Goodwill created by US aid for nations hit by the 2004 tsunami had also faded since last year, the survey found.
The survey questioned 17,000 people in 15 countries, including the US.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5077984.stm
Full survey at: http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=252
Ahh the BBC the very definition of nonbiased reporting - and whatever the hell spewglobal is.
Pew Research is, I believe, the third largest polling organisation in the world. Sorry of the BBC link offended you. Here is the same story from elsewhere.
The Christian Science Monitor
$1:
US in Iraq greatest danger to global peace?
Much of world says yes, in survey that also shows declining support for war on terror.
By Tom Regan | csmonitor.com
The continued US presence in Iraq is frequently seen as a greater threat to world peace than the possibility of Iran having nuclear weapons, according to an annual survey of global attitudes conducted by a leading, US independent opinion research group.
The Pew Research Center poll, which covered 17,000 people in 15 European, Asian, and African countries in March and May, found that while anti-Americanism showed signs of abating last year, favorable opinions of the US have fallen in most of 15 countries this year.
Much of world says yes, in survey that also shows declining support for war on terror.
By Tom Regan | csmonitor.com
The continued US presence in Iraq is frequently seen as a greater threat to world peace than the possibility of Iran having nuclear weapons, according to an annual survey of global attitudes conducted by a leading, US independent opinion research group.
The Pew Research Center poll, which covered 17,000 people in 15 European, Asian, and African countries in March and May, found that while anti-Americanism showed signs of abating last year, favorable opinions of the US have fallen in most of 15 countries this year.
The New York Times
$1:
World's Image of U.S. Slips Further, Survey Shows
Published: June 13, 2006
WASHINGTON, June 13 — As the war in Iraq continues for a fourth year, the global image of America has slipped further, even among people in countries closely allied with the United States, a new global opinion poll has found.
Favorable views of the United States dropped sharply over the past year in Spain, where only 23 percent now say they have a positive opinion, down from 41 percent in 2005, according to the survey, which was carried out in 15 nations this spring by the Pew Research Center.
Published: June 13, 2006
WASHINGTON, June 13 — As the war in Iraq continues for a fourth year, the global image of America has slipped further, even among people in countries closely allied with the United States, a new global opinion poll has found.
Favorable views of the United States dropped sharply over the past year in Spain, where only 23 percent now say they have a positive opinion, down from 41 percent in 2005, according to the survey, which was carried out in 15 nations this spring by the Pew Research Center.
Or even Georgetown University, where Jesuits have been teaching since 1634.
$1:
A recent Marshall Center poll showed that 76% of our European allies - both "old" and "new" - disapprove of current U.S. foreign policy. A Pew Survey this year recorded sharply increased unfavorable views about the United States elsewhere: 65% in Turkey and 93% in Jordan, for example, both of which have been historically important allies in the Middle East. The report found that since the beginning of the conflict in Iraq, at least half the population in countries ranging from Pakistan to Russia to Great Britain have less confidence that the United States is trustworthy, and less faith that it really wants to promote democracy globally.
Numbers like these should alarm us.
Numbers like these should alarm us.
There, now it's not the bad old BBC.
HyperionTheEvil @ Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:58 am
Hardy Hardy:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
Hardy Hardy:
HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:
I wonder what justifies the smugness of your statement, other than anti-americanism.
How about we discuss this when a couple of billion people consider Canada to be the foremost threat to world peace? You know, just so the playing field will be level?
$1:
Last Updated: Wednesday, 14 June 2006, 01:43 GMT 02:43 UK
US 'biggest global peace threat'
The Iraq war continues to damage the US image, the survey says
People in European and Muslim countries see US policy in Iraq as a bigger threat to world peace than Iran's nuclear programme, a survey has shown.
The survey by the Pew Research Group also found support for US President George W Bush and his "war on terror" had dropped dramatically worldwide.
Goodwill created by US aid for nations hit by the 2004 tsunami had also faded since last year, the survey found.
The survey questioned 17,000 people in 15 countries, including the US.
US 'biggest global peace threat'
The Iraq war continues to damage the US image, the survey says
People in European and Muslim countries see US policy in Iraq as a bigger threat to world peace than Iran's nuclear programme, a survey has shown.
The survey by the Pew Research Group also found support for US President George W Bush and his "war on terror" had dropped dramatically worldwide.
Goodwill created by US aid for nations hit by the 2004 tsunami had also faded since last year, the survey found.
The survey questioned 17,000 people in 15 countries, including the US.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5077984.stm
Full survey at: http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=252
Ahh the BBC the very definition of nonbiased reporting - and whatever the hell spewglobal is.
Pew Research is, I believe, the third largest polling organisation in the world. Sorry of the BBC link offended you. Here is the same story from elsewhere.
The Christian Science Monitor
$1:
By Tom Regan | csmonitor.com
The New York Times
$1:
World's Image of U.S. Slips Further, Survey Shows
Published: June 13, 2006
Published: June 13, 2006
Or even Georgetown University, where Jesuits have been teaching since 1634.
$1:
A recent Marshall Center poll showed that 76% of our European allies - both "old" and "new" - disapprove of current U.S. foreign policy. A Pew Survey this year recorded sharply increased unfavorable views about the United States elsewhere: 65% in Turkey and 93% in Jordan, for example, both of which have been historically important allies in the Middle East. The report found that since the beginning of the conflict in Iraq, at least half the population in countries ranging from Pakistan to Russia to Great Britain have less confidence that the United States is trustworthy, and less faith that it really wants to promote democracy globally.
Numbers like these should alarm us.
Numbers like these should alarm us.
There, now it's not the bad old BBC.
Tom Regan the same animal rights loon? From a Christian Scientist leaflet?
The New york times is so much better than the BBC
And the Marshall Center named for a man from whom a organization who helped lead the world agisnt another form of Tyrrany