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well rosco called it:
"(an) extensive barrage of hysterically emotional fabrications and shades of the truth"
I am not quite sure why you decided to reply for him. do I sense some panties bunching? dont take me too seriously I mean it as a friendly jest.

sure moore has no experience. what experience did bush have? doing coke and not showing up for national guard duty? the people surrounding him sure pick up the slack. I am not trying to say moore is the perfect candidate and should run for office. I wouldnt want someone completely inexperienced being president either.

I was challenging rosco to come up with something other than a couple of dubious websites. He didnt say it was a great place to live, he just called the movie a pile of lies and gave a couple of links, saying he thought reality "is actually quite different from the picture that anti American propagandists try to paint."

You say that you agree with alot of things in Bowling, but "its just trying to paint a bad image for the us". So as long as nobody talks about the problems its okay?

   

Over 11,000 people killed by firearms. Gee do you think anyone else down there might think it's a problem.

   

It's a problem, but not how you paint it to be. Gang violence in the cities, and other inner city violence is mostly to blame. When you go out to surburbia, it's rare that you hear of someone being murdered with a firearm unless a kid accidently got ahold of one.

   

There's a difference between talking about the problems, and painting a picture of a problem ridden country with basically no hope and nothing good happening in it. I want an unbiased report, showing the good, and the bad, not just the bad. You think Americans don't get bad news everyday? Over 55 mins of the news is usually bad news, with 5 mins of good news. Not that I like Bush, but you do know that he was governer before he was president? He wasn't completely inexperienced with politics before going to the whitehouse, or completely inexperienced with working in government.

I would also like to say that it takes alot more to get my panties bunched than talking about how michael moore shouldn't be president. Don't flatter yourself....

I agree with bowling in that the gun laws are too lean and that columbine was a sad time. I don't know if I agree with the image of America in it though as being this gun obsessed violent country in fear with towns all going to poverty. Alot of Americans don't even pay attention to news or live in fear, because they don't know much about the outside world. Anywhere you go in the world you will have people who fear the unknown, who are violent, and who are in poverty, but michael moore makes it out like the US is the only place that has those problems, and like the problems were unknown, are are surprising. When I lived in the US, all you need to do is take a highway to the city and you will see places in poverty, homeless people, and so on. Humans have still not created a government which works for everyone, and the US is going to do much against the status que in implementing new programs.

   

oh ho I thought the bunching occurred when someone spoke disapprovingly of the almighty USA.
okay enough ribbing..

All the mainstream media in the USA is politically influenced. I know its a constant bombardment of BS. I watched the movie remember? So in my opinion its up to the people living there to get alternative sources for news. The almighty internet does wonders, and there are other ways too.

Yes, Georgie was governor. He excecuted a lot of people. Even mocked them as they were about to die. I know that has nothing to do with what we are talking about, but my point is if Bush can become president I dont see any problem with moore running, education or not.

Nobody else has bothered to try and make a movie like this yet, to my knowledge. At least he tried, and you did say you agreed with alot of what he said. Maybe a bad image needed to be painted to make people pay attention.

   

I don't agree with moore or bush being president. A bad image is never needed, only a true, even-sided image. I think the movie was alright, but was to one-sided, and I hate anything that is one-sided. I'm a in the middle person, so I will never agree with a movie which is one-sided and paints one persons point of view.

   

Somebody has to paint the bad image. Pretty pictures are nice, but they ain't the truth. If you really want to know about Bush's run as governor, buy a Molly Ivins book, Johnny. She's from Texas, and none too fond of her former governor and present president. Tough journalist too...a lot of facts. You're always saying that people have to be there. She was and still is.

   

I don't like Bush, I don't believe or trust anything he's done, so I don't need a book to reinforce my point of view. No one needs to paint a bad image, just a fair one. I believe in people being fair, not biased. Painting a picture bad is just as bad as painting one that's good. I want one that has "good" and "bad" in one.

   

All the more reason to buy one or two of Molly's books then Johnny. She is fair and it is not her fault if the facts paint a bad picture of your president and the structure that helped him get into power.

   

I still have some books to get finished myself. I got Bush at war by Bob woodward, and I actually have 2 of michael moores books Stupid white men, and Dude, where's my country. I also heard A people's history of the United States by Howard Zinn is suppose to be good....

   

Every country has problems but Michael Moore blows those of the U.S. vastly out of proportion, while incidently making Canada seem like a wonderland it never was and never will be.

That bit with the black people was based on an article MM wrote soon after Sept 11 where he states that if their had been some or more black passengers on the hyjacked flights they would have overpowered and stopped the terrorists or something.

Lots of countries have more murders than the U.S., even when you have MM overstating the actual numbers by a huge margin.

Hollywood is extremely liberal, it's where the liberal mentality basically got it's start in the U.S. Usually anybody expressing what could be termed as right wing views in Hollywood is blacklisted.

   

once again from the link on page #1:

give it up rosco. i'm tired of reading useless arguments.


link

   

12000 gunshot deaths for South Africa in 1998, which is typical in that nation of only 43 million. Columbia I believe is even worse but it's hard to find the exact figures.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/644224.stm

I'm tired of hearing Michael Moore cheerleaders push his agenda without stopping to realize what a blatant hypocrit the man is, for one thing he paints the media as fear mongers while doing a whole lot of fear mongering himself and he also tries to paint the NRA as a KKK derived racist organization whos' members are murdering fanatics, while admitting to be a lifetime member of this same organization...

   

The borders of Columiba are lawless and run by drug cartels and revolutionary militas, which are at war with the goverment, so i dont think that counts.

   

except that u just changed the argument.

u said that Moore lied about the US figures.

i argued back that he didn't

and then you just changed the subject by replying with


what does south africa or columbia have to do with the accuracy of MM's figures?

   

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