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It has nothing to do with it, Indelible. It's that old bait and switch tactic these people use when they can't refute real facts. Woo-hoo...the US is better than some of the worst countries in the world. Of course the US likes to claim that it is better than Canada or the countries of Western Europe.

It's like saying you are smarter than Einstein because George Bush is stupider than you. It makes no sense, but that's all they have left.

Nice signature by the way, Rosco...sums your ignorance perfectly.

   

Or some might say - hits the nail right on the head.


mmm, interesting logic you follow boyo as one who squeezes to the left of Moore only laden with more hate than even he can garner, but then applying your logic is like saying I am richer than Moore because hollowman is on welfare, no?

   

the statistics can say whatever you want. 12 thousand, 8 thousand, 10 thousand, its WAY MORE THAN ANY OTHER "FIRST WORLD" nation. BY FAR.
waving stats about south africa and columbia around is.... far from relevant?

fear mongering, rosco? Bowling is hardly comparable to the bullshit you get on the 6pm news every night on FOX or NBC. even if you do see it that way at least its saying something different and maybe will educate and make people think a bit more.

do you have anything to say about the social issues Bowling brings up?
or its all arguing about stats and Moore is a hypocrite.

   

'nuff said.

   

Have you ever been to Columbia adam?

Just wondering because I know people at MUN (local university) from Columbia who tell a different story.

   

although columbia has absolutely nothing to do with Moore becoming president or the accuracy of Moore's statistics in his films (which rosco obviously can't wrap his small mind around), i will say my piece on columbia.

while columbia may have a higher rate of gun deaths than the US, columbia doesn't go traipsing around the world claiming to be the "defenders of everything right and good". how hypocritical is it to go touting that with such a high rate of gun deaths?

don't get me wrong, i don't think that that makes either country's rate of gun deaths acceptable by any means. it is just hypocritical of the US, IMO.

   

Actually, a lot of those gun deaths in Columbia would be a lot less likely to happen if the US wasn't protecting oil pipelines and backing death squads. There'd be a lot fewer deaths and ilnesses from heribicide-contaminated water too.

   

Theres one thing I don't like about Michael Moore, the fact that he kisses his own ass way to much, I mean all his books and movies its always I I I I, Me me me me!!!

If he let the material speak for itself instead of being the center of it all.

Anyway do ya really need some bear like moore to tell you whats right and wrong? I mean I new Bush was a lying, money seeking yankee idiot before Moore came along! And isn't it scarey that some guy like moore has to tell people things they should have known already ?

And if ya notice all the PC brigade always jump on a bandwagon, to them Moores just another fad to be showered with Oscars and crap, this whole "Moore for President" thing is just another "Fashionable" thing to say, but personally if I was an American and Moore was President I'd run like hell and emigrate!!!

If I was an American I would be more concerned with the "Patriot Act" than with what Michael Moore has to say, when your not able to send e-mails, look at the internet, go to the library or use the bill of rights, you won't care what Michael Moore has to say.

   

Moore has been very vocal in his criticism of the Patriot Act though, Maple. A large part of his success is that he says what people are feeling. If you look at his core audience it consists mostly of working people who are happy that somebody is fianlly voicing their concerns.

   

The epitome of the 'Ugly American' but also of capitalism at it's best.

He knows all too well the hard left mouth breathers will find the money required by hook but more often by crook even after they've spent their cheque on smokes and booze and other syntax type activities to buy his pandering books and attend his yell 'fire' movies.

At $10,000.00 per appearance this guy knows exactly what side his bread is buttered.

If you're lucky he'll stay away for free.

   

the thing is....there are people who still support bush. something near 50% still. not all americans know what you and i know about bush. some people are blind to the BS bush is pulling. someone needs to speak out against it. i'm glad Moore is doing that.

   

The Bush Family also had a connection to the Nazi Third Reich -

Four generations have created an unsavory web of links that could prove an election-year Achilles' heel for the president.

Despite February polls showing President Bush losing his early reelection lead, he's still the favorite. No modern president running unopposed in his party's primaries and caucuses has ever lost in November.

But there may be a key to undoing that precedent. The two Bush presidencies are so closely linked, especially over Iraq, that the 43rd can't be understood apart from the 41st. Beyond that, for a full portrait of what the Bushes are about, we must return to the family's emergence on the national scene in the early 20th century.

This four-generation evolution of the Bushes involves multiple links that could become Bush's election-year Achilles' heel — if a clever and tough 2004 Democratic opponent can punch and slice at them. Massachusetts Sen. John F. Kerry, the clear Democratic front-runner, could be best positioned to do so. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, he investigated the Iran-Contra and Bank of Credit and Commerce International scandals, both of which touched George H.W. Bush's Saudi, Iraqi and Middle Eastern arms-deal entanglements.

Washington lawyer Jack Blum, the ace investigator for Kerry's subcommittee back then, is said to be advising him now, which could be meaningful. Ironically, the Bush family's century of involvement in oil, armaments and global intrigue has never been at the center of the national debate since the Bushes starting running for president in 1980.

The reason? Insufficient public knowledge. The only Bush biography published before George H.W. Bush won election in 1988 was a puff job written by a former press secretary, and the biographies of George W. Bush in 2000 barely mentioned his forefathers. Millions of Republicans who have loyally voted for Bushes in three presidential elections simply have no idea. Here are circumstances and biases especially worth noting.

The Bushes and the military-industrial complex: George H. Walker and Samuel Prescott Bush were the dynasty's founding fathers during the years of and after World War I. Walker, a St. Louis financier, made his mark in corporate reorganizations and war contracts. By 1919, he was enlisted by railroad heir W. Averell Harriman to be president of Wall Street-based WA Harriman, which invested in oil, shipping, aviation and manganese, partly in Russia and Germany, during the 1920s. Sam Bush, the current president's other great-grandfather, ran an Ohio company, Buckeye Steel Castings, that produced armaments. In 1917, he went to Washington to head the small arms, ammunition and ordnance section of the federal War Industries Board. Both men were present at the emergence of what became the U.S. military-industrial complex.

Prescott Bush, the Connecticut senator and grandfather of the current president, had some German corporate ties at the outbreak of World War II, but the better yardstick of his connections was his directorships of companies involved in U.S. war production. Dresser Industries, for example, produced the incendiary bombs dropped on Tokyo and made gaseous diffusion pumps for the atomic bomb project. George H.W. Bush later worked for Dresser's oil-services businesses. Then, as CIA director, vice president and president, one of his priorities was the U.S. weapons trade and secret arms deals with Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the moujahedeen in Afghanistan.

In his 1961 farewell address, President Dwight D. Eisenhower warned about how "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." That complex's recent mega-leap to power came under George H.W. Bush and even more under George W. Bush — with the post-9/11 expansion of the military and creation of the Department of Homeland Security. But armaments and arms deals seem to have been in the Bushes' blood for nearly a century.

Oil: The Bushes' ties to John D. Rockefeller and Standard Oil go back 100 years, when Rockefeller made Buckeye Steel Castings wildly successful by convincing railroads that carried their oil to buy heavy equipment from Buckeye. George H. Walker helped refurbish the Soviet oil industry in the 1920s, and Prescott Bush acquired experience in the international oil business as a 22-year director of Dresser Industries. George H.W. Bush, in turn, worked for Dresser and ran his own offshore oil-drilling business, Zapata Offshore. George W. Bush mostly raised money from investors for oil businesses that failed. Currently, the family's oil focus is principally in the Middle East.

Enron is another family connection. The company's Kenneth L. Lay made his first connections with George H.W. Bush in the early 1980s when the latter was working on energy deregulation. When Bush became president in 1989, he gave Lay two prominent international roles: membership on the President's Export Council and the task of planning for a G-7 summit in Houston. Lay parlayed that exposure into new business overseas and clout with Washington agencies. Family favoritism soon followed. When Bush senior lost the 1992 election, Lay picked up with son George W., first in Texas and then as a top contributor to Bush's 2000 presidential campaign. Before Enron imploded in late 2001, it had more influence in a new administration than any other corporation in memory.

The intelligence community: Bushes and Walkers have been involved with the intelligence community since World War I. The importance of Sam Bush's wartime munitions-regulating role was obvious. During the 1920s, when George H. Walker was doing a lot of business in Russia and Germany, he became a director of the American International Corporation, formed during the war for purposes of overseas investment and intelligence-gathering. Prescott Bush's pre-1941 corporate and banking contacts with Germany, sensationalized on many Internet sites, appear to have been passed along to officials in government and intelligence circles.

George H.W. Bush may have had CIA connections before the agency's unsuccessful Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba in 1961. A number of published sources suggest that Zapata Offshore was a CIA front long before he went on to become director of Central Intelligence in 1976. As for George W. Bush, his limited ties are said to have come through investments in, and buyouts of, several of his oil businesses by CIA- and BCCI-connected firms and individuals.

Top 1% economics: Over four generations, the Bush family has been involved with more than 20 securities firms, banks, brokerage houses and investment management firms, ranging from Wall Street giants like Brown Brothers Harriman and E.F. Hutton to small firms like J. Bush & Co. and Riggs Investment Management Corp. This relentless record of handling money for rich people has bred a vocational hauteur. In their eyes, the economic top 1% of Americans are the ones who count. Investors and their inheritors are favored — a good explanation of why George W. Bush has cut taxes on both dividends and estates, where most of the benefit goes to the top 1%. Over the course of George H.W. Bush's career, he was close to a number of the merger kings and leveraged-buyout specialists of the 1980s who came from Oklahoma and Texas: T. Boone Pickens, Henry Kravis and Hugh Liedtke. "Little guy" economics has almost no niche in the Bush economic worldview.

Debt and deficits: Whenever a Bush is president, private debt and government deficits seem to grow. Middle- and low-income Americans borrow to offset the income squeeze of recessions. The hallmark of Bush economics during both presidencies has been favoritism toward capital over workers. Federal budget deficits have soared because of a combination of upper-bracket tax favors, middle-income job shrinkage, big federal spending to hype election-year economic growth, huge defense outlays and overseas military spending for the wars in Iraq and elsewhere. Imperial hubris costs a lot of money.

Politically, over four generations the Bush past has been prologue. Despite George W. Bush's new good ol' boy image — cowboy boots and born-again ties to the religious right — his basic tendencies go in the same directions — oil, crony capitalism, top 1% economics and military-industrial-establishment loyalties — that the previous Bush and Walker generations have traveled. The old biases and loyalties seem ineradicable; so, too, for old grudges, like the two-generation fixation on Saddam Hussein.

The presidency is an old Bush ambition. As early as the 1940s, Barbara Bush talked to friends about becoming first lady. The current president's grandfather, Prescott Bush, told his wife before he retired in 1962 that he wished he'd been president. By 1963, George W. Bush, a student at Andover Academy, was talking about his own father's desire to be president.

In short, the word "dynasty" fits the Bushes all too well. They have had plenty of time to sort out their ambitions, loyalties and intentions. They know what they're in politics for — although this year may pose a new problem. The American people are also starting to find out.

Kevin Phillips' new book, just published, is "American Dynasty: Aristocracy, Fortune and the Politics of Deceit in the House of Bush

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0208-05.htm
______________________________________________________________________

John Loftus, is a former U.S. Department of Justice Nazi War Crimes prosecutor, the President of the Florida Holocaust Museum and the highly respected author of numerous books on the CIA-Nazi connection including The Belarus Secret and The Secret War Against the Jews, both of which have extensive material on the Bush-Rockefeller-Nazi connection.


For the Bush family, it is a lingering nightmare. For their Nazi clients, the Dutch connection was the mother of all money laundering schemes. From 1945 until 1949, one of the lengthiest and, it now appears, most futile interrogations of a Nazi war crimes suspect began in the American Zone of Occupied Germany. Multibillionaire steel magnate Fritz Thyssen-the man whose steel combine was the cold heart of the Nazi war machine-talked and talked and talked to a joint US-UK interrogation team. For four long years, successive teams of inquisitors tried to break Thyssen's simple claim to possess neither foreign bank accounts nor interests in foreign corporations, no assets that might lead to the missing billions in assets of the Third Reich. The inquisitors failed utterly.

Why? Because what the wily Thyssen deposed was, in a sense, true. What the Allied investigators never understood was that they were not asking Thyssen the right question. Thyssen did not need any foreign bank accounts because his family secretly owned an entire chain of banks. He did not have to transfer his Nazi assets at the end of World War II, all he had to do was transfer the ownership documents - stocks, bonds, deeds and trusts--from his bank in Berlin through his bank in Holland to his American friends in New York City: Prescott Bush and Herbert Walker. Thyssen's partners in crime were the father and father-in-law of a future President of the United States....



http://www.rense.com/general26/dutch.htm

   

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