The international peace movement, what purpose does it serve
sandorski @ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:27 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
sandorski sandorski:
Durandal Durandal:
Perhaps sandorski could explain why about 1 person in 10 wears a Che t-shirt in so-called "pro-peace" marches.
That's my point exactly.
Just answer the question, please. We already have IceOwl for incomprehensible and obfuscated logic. He'll pout if you steal his style.
I have answered the question, but if you want more detail I'll give it.
Approx 10% of Americans identify themselves as Agnostic/Atheist. Does this mean that Americans are Agnostic/Atheist as a whole?
More specifically concerning Che Guevera(sp): I put to you to consider this: Not everyone who considers Che as a "hero" does so because of his Communist Idealism. They often do so out of admiration for his support of the Working Man. Others do so because they don't really know who he is, just that others with common goals(this case Peace) identify with him.
A quick Google finds this page with many links: Peace Orgs, I haven't bothered to check any of the links, but I'll bet that very few have any links to Communism, Che Guevera, or other [insert nonsensical generalization here]. In fact, I'll bet that there are more links to Christian Orgs(thus negating my previous example link) than there are to Communist Orgs. So is the Peace Movement now Christian?
DerbyX @ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:40 pm
Durandal Durandal:
sandorski sandorski:
OMG Christians are Nazis!!
Patrick_Ross tried the same thing with me on an other tread and it didn't work out well for him.
What about Hitler, wasn't he a Christian ?
Pie XII et les Juifs
Le silence de Pie XII
Not only does this equation of christian = nazi does not hold the line, but it is a... wait... ridiculous comparasion with the commie/"anti-war" mouvement hence the size and impact of the second.
Perhaps sandorski could explain why about 1 person in 10 wears a Che t-shirt in so-called "pro-peace" marches.
Hitler was indeed a christian, of that there is no disputing the evidence other then desperate christians trying to distance themselves from the truth.
Hitler's Religion
Further more all you are doing is perpetuating the blatant attempt by the OSS in trying to say (in a despicable comparisson) that christian churches were somehow persecuted at the same level as Jews, Communists, Atheists, homosexuals.
The Nuremburg Deception
Under Hitler the Nazis closed secular schools and instituted school prayer and religious instruction. Hardly the actions of a dedicated Atheists or anti-christian eh? Hitler wanted Germany to be a religious and christian nation with e germanic flair. He wanted a national faith that reflected his own beliefs (like just about every leader in history) and those beliefs were stated quite clearly in Mein Kampf and are:
$1:
He believed in Heaven, Hell, a supreme being who created the universe, Jesus Christ, life after death, special creation, original sin, expulsion from paradise, and divine judgement.
He drew his inspiration from the Viennese Christian Social movement, and he expressed nothing but admiration for its founder.
He believed that Jesus Christ was an Aryan, not a Jew. In fact, he claimed that Jesus "made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity".
He used the term "human" to describe only Aryans. He described blacks, Jews, and (presumably) other non-Aryan races as a disease, or as lower animals (notice that he described Jews as an "adversary of all humanity", thus clearly describing them as something other than humans).
He thought that interracial marriage would produce "monstrosities halfway between man and ape" and should be fought with religious fervour. This makes his beliefs on evolution and creation very clear; he thought that Aryans were created in God's own image, while all other races evolved from apes. This should come as no surprise; not only was this an overwhelmingly common belief during the age of European imperialism which lasted right up to the end of the 19th century, but it persists to this day (a lot of white supremacists still refer to blacks as "monkeys"). In his view, it was therefore an unnatural and unholy dilution of God's image for Aryans and non-Aryans to mate.
He believed that Germany lost World War I because it turned its back on God, much as Israel was repeatedly humiliated and defeated whenever it turned away from God in the Old Testament.
What more is required to show that he was Christian? Not for nothing do Christian apologists make the absurd claim that hearsay accounts of supposedly private conversations with people outside his inner circle should be considered penultimate forms of evidence while Hitler's seminal writings should be considered irrelevant; they fear the truth, and they want you to disregard his most personal work.
And make no mistake: Mein Kampf is his most personal work. Far from being the carefully crafted political statement that some would make it out to be, it was Hitler pouring out his soul and revealing all of his life's plans to his closest confidante. He dictated and Hess transcribed the text of Mein Kampf while he was in prison in 1923-1924, finishing it after his release and publishing it in 1925. In it, he revealed everything: his plan to expand Aryan "living space" at the expense of the Slavs (ie- the foolish attack on Russia that so few saw coming), his plan to avenge the German defeat of World War I by conquering France, his belief that all of the world's races should be subjugated under the Aryan race, and his plan to exterminate the Jews. By reading this single document, one can predict every major action Hitler would take over the next two decades including the Holocaust and the "surprise" attack on Russia, yet Christian apologists would have you believe it was nothing but a misleading propaganda piece!
He drew his inspiration from the Viennese Christian Social movement, and he expressed nothing but admiration for its founder.
He believed that Jesus Christ was an Aryan, not a Jew. In fact, he claimed that Jesus "made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity".
He used the term "human" to describe only Aryans. He described blacks, Jews, and (presumably) other non-Aryan races as a disease, or as lower animals (notice that he described Jews as an "adversary of all humanity", thus clearly describing them as something other than humans).
He thought that interracial marriage would produce "monstrosities halfway between man and ape" and should be fought with religious fervour. This makes his beliefs on evolution and creation very clear; he thought that Aryans were created in God's own image, while all other races evolved from apes. This should come as no surprise; not only was this an overwhelmingly common belief during the age of European imperialism which lasted right up to the end of the 19th century, but it persists to this day (a lot of white supremacists still refer to blacks as "monkeys"). In his view, it was therefore an unnatural and unholy dilution of God's image for Aryans and non-Aryans to mate.
He believed that Germany lost World War I because it turned its back on God, much as Israel was repeatedly humiliated and defeated whenever it turned away from God in the Old Testament.
What more is required to show that he was Christian? Not for nothing do Christian apologists make the absurd claim that hearsay accounts of supposedly private conversations with people outside his inner circle should be considered penultimate forms of evidence while Hitler's seminal writings should be considered irrelevant; they fear the truth, and they want you to disregard his most personal work.
And make no mistake: Mein Kampf is his most personal work. Far from being the carefully crafted political statement that some would make it out to be, it was Hitler pouring out his soul and revealing all of his life's plans to his closest confidante. He dictated and Hess transcribed the text of Mein Kampf while he was in prison in 1923-1924, finishing it after his release and publishing it in 1925. In it, he revealed everything: his plan to expand Aryan "living space" at the expense of the Slavs (ie- the foolish attack on Russia that so few saw coming), his plan to avenge the German defeat of World War I by conquering France, his belief that all of the world's races should be subjugated under the Aryan race, and his plan to exterminate the Jews. By reading this single document, one can predict every major action Hitler would take over the next two decades including the Holocaust and the "surprise" attack on Russia, yet Christian apologists would have you believe it was nothing but a misleading propaganda piece!
I've debated many christian apologetics and their arguments fall into 2 main categories;
1) Hitler simply lied about his beliefs.
A ridiculous notion that requires somebody to simply ignore every speech and written article by the man and put unhearlded faith into Bormanns table talk.
2) Hitler wasn't a moral person and all christians are moral therefore Hitler wasn't a christian/
That circular logic fallacy speaks for itself.
Face the very unpretty truth.
HyperionTheEvil @ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:56 pm
Scrappy Scrappy:
What purpose do peaceniks and their organizations serve? I can't think of one incident where they have made a difference globally, am I wrong?
The peaceniks scream leave Iraq and Afghanistan but I've yet to hear their international voice on renouncing the Radical Islamists from the Sudan. WHY the silence as hundreds of thousands are slaughtered and raped why don't they care about these people? Why do they only raise their voice when "OUR" side kills an innocent but they remain mute when terrorists kill by the hundreds daily? They accuse us "War Mongers" of having blood on our hands, but are their hands clean? NO, their inaction and constant mewling over Iraq has made many countries hesitant to get involved in the Horn of Africa, as a result of their never ending protests outside universities and coffee shops innocents die. It's my contention that the peacemovement causes more harm than good, this movement scares democratic countries into inaction. These bullies only see blood when it suits their agenda, other wise why don't they care about the innocents the terrorist kill. Again what purpose does this global group of people serve? Enlighten me merci.
The peaceniks scream leave Iraq and Afghanistan but I've yet to hear their international voice on renouncing the Radical Islamists from the Sudan. WHY the silence as hundreds of thousands are slaughtered and raped why don't they care about these people? Why do they only raise their voice when "OUR" side kills an innocent but they remain mute when terrorists kill by the hundreds daily? They accuse us "War Mongers" of having blood on our hands, but are their hands clean? NO, their inaction and constant mewling over Iraq has made many countries hesitant to get involved in the Horn of Africa, as a result of their never ending protests outside universities and coffee shops innocents die. It's my contention that the peacemovement causes more harm than good, this movement scares democratic countries into inaction. These bullies only see blood when it suits their agenda, other wise why don't they care about the innocents the terrorist kill. Again what purpose does this global group of people serve? Enlighten me merci.
The only thing i can think of is ongoing supply of tie-died clothes and birkenstock sandals
Durandal @ Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:58 pm
"That's my point exactly."
Explain please.
sandorski @ Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:00 pm
Durandal Durandal:
"That's my point exactly."
Explain please.
Explain please.
look up a few posts
DerbyX @ Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:04 pm
sandorski sandorski:
Durandal Durandal:
"That's my point exactly."
Explain please.
Explain please.
look up a few posts
I think if you type more slowly he might understand.
ShepherdsDog @ Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:26 pm
DerbyX DerbyX:
Durandal Durandal:
sandorski sandorski:
OMG Christians are Nazis!!
Patrick_Ross tried the same thing with me on an other tread and it didn't work out well for him.
What about Hitler, wasn't he a Christian ?
Pie XII et les Juifs
Le silence de Pie XII
Not only does this equation of christian = nazi does not hold the line, but it is a... wait... ridiculous comparasion with the commie/"anti-war" mouvement hence the size and impact of the second.
Perhaps sandorski could explain why about 1 person in 10 wears a Che t-shirt in so-called "pro-peace" marches.
Hitler was indeed a christian, of that there is no disputing the evidence other then desperate christians trying to distance themselves from the truth.
Hitler's Religion
Further more all you are doing is perpetuating the blatant attempt by the OSS in trying to say (in a despicable comparisson) that christian churches were somehow persecuted at the same level as Jews, Communists, Atheists, homosexuals.
The Nuremburg Deception
Under Hitler the Nazis closed secular schools and instituted school prayer and religious instruction. Hardly the actions of a dedicated Atheists or anti-christian eh? Hitler wanted Germany to be a religious and christian nation with e germanic flair. He wanted a national faith that reflected his own beliefs (like just about every leader in history) and those beliefs were stated quite clearly in Mein Kampf and are:
$1:
He believed in Heaven, Hell, a supreme being who created the universe, Jesus Christ, life after death, special creation, original sin, expulsion from paradise, and divine judgement.
He drew his inspiration from the Viennese Christian Social movement, and he expressed nothing but admiration for its founder.
He believed that Jesus Christ was an Aryan, not a Jew. In fact, he claimed that Jesus "made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity".
He used the term "human" to describe only Aryans. He described blacks, Jews, and (presumably) other non-Aryan races as a disease, or as lower animals (notice that he described Jews as an "adversary of all humanity", thus clearly describing them as something other than humans).
He thought that interracial marriage would produce "monstrosities halfway between man and ape" and should be fought with religious fervour. This makes his beliefs on evolution and creation very clear; he thought that Aryans were created in God's own image, while all other races evolved from apes. This should come as no surprise; not only was this an overwhelmingly common belief during the age of European imperialism which lasted right up to the end of the 19th century, but it persists to this day (a lot of white supremacists still refer to blacks as "monkeys"). In his view, it was therefore an unnatural and unholy dilution of God's image for Aryans and non-Aryans to mate.
He believed that Germany lost World War I because it turned its back on God, much as Israel was repeatedly humiliated and defeated whenever it turned away from God in the Old Testament.
What more is required to show that he was Christian? Not for nothing do Christian apologists make the absurd claim that hearsay accounts of supposedly private conversations with people outside his inner circle should be considered penultimate forms of evidence while Hitler's seminal writings should be considered irrelevant; they fear the truth, and they want you to disregard his most personal work.
And make no mistake: Mein Kampf is his most personal work. Far from being the carefully crafted political statement that some would make it out to be, it was Hitler pouring out his soul and revealing all of his life's plans to his closest confidante. He dictated and Hess transcribed the text of Mein Kampf while he was in prison in 1923-1924, finishing it after his release and publishing it in 1925. In it, he revealed everything: his plan to expand Aryan "living space" at the expense of the Slavs (ie- the foolish attack on Russia that so few saw coming), his plan to avenge the German defeat of World War I by conquering France, his belief that all of the world's races should be subjugated under the Aryan race, and his plan to exterminate the Jews. By reading this single document, one can predict every major action Hitler would take over the next two decades including the Holocaust and the "surprise" attack on Russia, yet Christian apologists would have you believe it was nothing but a misleading propaganda piece!
He drew his inspiration from the Viennese Christian Social movement, and he expressed nothing but admiration for its founder.
He believed that Jesus Christ was an Aryan, not a Jew. In fact, he claimed that Jesus "made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity".
He used the term "human" to describe only Aryans. He described blacks, Jews, and (presumably) other non-Aryan races as a disease, or as lower animals (notice that he described Jews as an "adversary of all humanity", thus clearly describing them as something other than humans).
He thought that interracial marriage would produce "monstrosities halfway between man and ape" and should be fought with religious fervour. This makes his beliefs on evolution and creation very clear; he thought that Aryans were created in God's own image, while all other races evolved from apes. This should come as no surprise; not only was this an overwhelmingly common belief during the age of European imperialism which lasted right up to the end of the 19th century, but it persists to this day (a lot of white supremacists still refer to blacks as "monkeys"). In his view, it was therefore an unnatural and unholy dilution of God's image for Aryans and non-Aryans to mate.
He believed that Germany lost World War I because it turned its back on God, much as Israel was repeatedly humiliated and defeated whenever it turned away from God in the Old Testament.
What more is required to show that he was Christian? Not for nothing do Christian apologists make the absurd claim that hearsay accounts of supposedly private conversations with people outside his inner circle should be considered penultimate forms of evidence while Hitler's seminal writings should be considered irrelevant; they fear the truth, and they want you to disregard his most personal work.
And make no mistake: Mein Kampf is his most personal work. Far from being the carefully crafted political statement that some would make it out to be, it was Hitler pouring out his soul and revealing all of his life's plans to his closest confidante. He dictated and Hess transcribed the text of Mein Kampf while he was in prison in 1923-1924, finishing it after his release and publishing it in 1925. In it, he revealed everything: his plan to expand Aryan "living space" at the expense of the Slavs (ie- the foolish attack on Russia that so few saw coming), his plan to avenge the German defeat of World War I by conquering France, his belief that all of the world's races should be subjugated under the Aryan race, and his plan to exterminate the Jews. By reading this single document, one can predict every major action Hitler would take over the next two decades including the Holocaust and the "surprise" attack on Russia, yet Christian apologists would have you believe it was nothing but a misleading propaganda piece!
I've debated many christian apologetics and their arguments fall into 2 main categories;
1) Hitler simply lied about his beliefs.
A ridiculous notion that requires somebody to simply ignore every speech and written article by the man and put unhearlded faith into Bormanns table talk.
2) Hitler wasn't a moral person and all christians are moral therefore Hitler wasn't a christian/
That circular logic fallacy speaks for itself.
Face the very unpretty truth.
Yet you continue to deny that Mao and Stalin's atheism contributed to their atrocities.
DerbyX @ Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:27 pm
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Durandal Durandal:
sandorski sandorski:
OMG Christians are Nazis!!
Patrick_Ross tried the same thing with me on an other tread and it didn't work out well for him.
What about Hitler, wasn't he a Christian ?
Pie XII et les Juifs
Le silence de Pie XII
Not only does this equation of christian = nazi does not hold the line, but it is a... wait... ridiculous comparasion with the commie/"anti-war" mouvement hence the size and impact of the second.
Perhaps sandorski could explain why about 1 person in 10 wears a Che t-shirt in so-called "pro-peace" marches.
Hitler was indeed a christian, of that there is no disputing the evidence other then desperate christians trying to distance themselves from the truth.
Hitler's Religion
Further more all you are doing is perpetuating the blatant attempt by the OSS in trying to say (in a despicable comparisson) that christian churches were somehow persecuted at the same level as Jews, Communists, Atheists, homosexuals.
The Nuremburg Deception
Under Hitler the Nazis closed secular schools and instituted school prayer and religious instruction. Hardly the actions of a dedicated Atheists or anti-christian eh? Hitler wanted Germany to be a religious and christian nation with e germanic flair. He wanted a national faith that reflected his own beliefs (like just about every leader in history) and those beliefs were stated quite clearly in Mein Kampf and are:
$1:
He believed in Heaven, Hell, a supreme being who created the universe, Jesus Christ, life after death, special creation, original sin, expulsion from paradise, and divine judgement.
He drew his inspiration from the Viennese Christian Social movement, and he expressed nothing but admiration for its founder.
He believed that Jesus Christ was an Aryan, not a Jew. In fact, he claimed that Jesus "made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity".
He used the term "human" to describe only Aryans. He described blacks, Jews, and (presumably) other non-Aryan races as a disease, or as lower animals (notice that he described Jews as an "adversary of all humanity", thus clearly describing them as something other than humans).
He thought that interracial marriage would produce "monstrosities halfway between man and ape" and should be fought with religious fervour. This makes his beliefs on evolution and creation very clear; he thought that Aryans were created in God's own image, while all other races evolved from apes. This should come as no surprise; not only was this an overwhelmingly common belief during the age of European imperialism which lasted right up to the end of the 19th century, but it persists to this day (a lot of white supremacists still refer to blacks as "monkeys"). In his view, it was therefore an unnatural and unholy dilution of God's image for Aryans and non-Aryans to mate.
He believed that Germany lost World War I because it turned its back on God, much as Israel was repeatedly humiliated and defeated whenever it turned away from God in the Old Testament.
What more is required to show that he was Christian? Not for nothing do Christian apologists make the absurd claim that hearsay accounts of supposedly private conversations with people outside his inner circle should be considered penultimate forms of evidence while Hitler's seminal writings should be considered irrelevant; they fear the truth, and they want you to disregard his most personal work.
And make no mistake: Mein Kampf is his most personal work. Far from being the carefully crafted political statement that some would make it out to be, it was Hitler pouring out his soul and revealing all of his life's plans to his closest confidante. He dictated and Hess transcribed the text of Mein Kampf while he was in prison in 1923-1924, finishing it after his release and publishing it in 1925. In it, he revealed everything: his plan to expand Aryan "living space" at the expense of the Slavs (ie- the foolish attack on Russia that so few saw coming), his plan to avenge the German defeat of World War I by conquering France, his belief that all of the world's races should be subjugated under the Aryan race, and his plan to exterminate the Jews. By reading this single document, one can predict every major action Hitler would take over the next two decades including the Holocaust and the "surprise" attack on Russia, yet Christian apologists would have you believe it was nothing but a misleading propaganda piece!
He drew his inspiration from the Viennese Christian Social movement, and he expressed nothing but admiration for its founder.
He believed that Jesus Christ was an Aryan, not a Jew. In fact, he claimed that Jesus "made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity".
He used the term "human" to describe only Aryans. He described blacks, Jews, and (presumably) other non-Aryan races as a disease, or as lower animals (notice that he described Jews as an "adversary of all humanity", thus clearly describing them as something other than humans).
He thought that interracial marriage would produce "monstrosities halfway between man and ape" and should be fought with religious fervour. This makes his beliefs on evolution and creation very clear; he thought that Aryans were created in God's own image, while all other races evolved from apes. This should come as no surprise; not only was this an overwhelmingly common belief during the age of European imperialism which lasted right up to the end of the 19th century, but it persists to this day (a lot of white supremacists still refer to blacks as "monkeys"). In his view, it was therefore an unnatural and unholy dilution of God's image for Aryans and non-Aryans to mate.
He believed that Germany lost World War I because it turned its back on God, much as Israel was repeatedly humiliated and defeated whenever it turned away from God in the Old Testament.
What more is required to show that he was Christian? Not for nothing do Christian apologists make the absurd claim that hearsay accounts of supposedly private conversations with people outside his inner circle should be considered penultimate forms of evidence while Hitler's seminal writings should be considered irrelevant; they fear the truth, and they want you to disregard his most personal work.
And make no mistake: Mein Kampf is his most personal work. Far from being the carefully crafted political statement that some would make it out to be, it was Hitler pouring out his soul and revealing all of his life's plans to his closest confidante. He dictated and Hess transcribed the text of Mein Kampf while he was in prison in 1923-1924, finishing it after his release and publishing it in 1925. In it, he revealed everything: his plan to expand Aryan "living space" at the expense of the Slavs (ie- the foolish attack on Russia that so few saw coming), his plan to avenge the German defeat of World War I by conquering France, his belief that all of the world's races should be subjugated under the Aryan race, and his plan to exterminate the Jews. By reading this single document, one can predict every major action Hitler would take over the next two decades including the Holocaust and the "surprise" attack on Russia, yet Christian apologists would have you believe it was nothing but a misleading propaganda piece!
I've debated many christian apologetics and their arguments fall into 2 main categories;
1) Hitler simply lied about his beliefs.
A ridiculous notion that requires somebody to simply ignore every speech and written article by the man and put unhearlded faith into Bormanns table talk.
2) Hitler wasn't a moral person and all christians are moral therefore Hitler wasn't a christian/
That circular logic fallacy speaks for itself.
Face the very unpretty truth.
Yet you continue to deny that Mao and Stalin's atheism contributed to their atrocities.
Probably because thats a false statement.
Killed by Atheism?
Just like you agreed that christians were not overly picked on specifically because they werre christians so to were religious people in russia & china.
There is a great myth about communism and atheism and its very telling that communism doesn't in any way promote atheism. Communism is a political belief just as capitalism is and neither one is inherently religious. Ditto socialism, fascism, parlimentarinism, etc.
Stalin opposed religion/christianity the same way Hitler did. Both wanted control of the churches because the churches themselves were a means of control. Given that churches have fought othe rchurches, denominations have fought other denominations, and kings and queens throughout history fought for control of churches its hardly surprising. You yourself recognize the audacity of catholics and their pope to think they are "the true christians"so much so that in Brazil the pope said they had to prevent people from converting to protestantism.
Stalin didn't kill people in the name of "Ätheism" and neither did china. They killed them in the name of "marxism" or "communism", but in reality just plain old control.
Hitler didn't attack (insert country) in the name of christianity evenif his domestic policies were done with that belief in mind.
His treatment of the jews however, was a direct result of his chistian upbrining and is an opinion held by christians today as Mr. Mel Gibson, creator of the Passion of the Christ, seems to reflect.
Regardless, we Atheists aren't saying that Stalin wasn't an Atheist.
You christians are no only trying to say that Hitler wasn't a christian but that he was in fact an Atheists, and that WW2 was our fault.
See the difference? Sorry that that Hitler believed in the same god you do. Get over it.
Durandal @ Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:43 am
sandorski sandorski:
Approx 10% of Americans identify themselves as Agnostic/Atheist. Does this mean that Americans are Agnostic/Atheist as a whole?
No, dear.
You forgot http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/ that shows the links between close to all (if not all) the "pro-peace" organisation/unions/personalities/etc that clearly demonstrates that the scream for peace of the left serves other purposes than peace.
$1:
More specifically concerning Che Guevera: I put to you to consider this: Not everyone who considers Che as a "hero" does so because of his Communist Idealism. They often do so out of admiration for his support of the Working Man.
Err... his support for the working man... working man exploited by our system of free entreprise... working man unhappy... working men must unite... working men must throw out the evil conservatives... VIVA LA REVOLUTION !!!
Hey, I just typed "viva la revolution" on Yahoo to see how we write "revolution" in Spanish, and vlam ! I en up on this site : http://perso.orange.fr/do/
I enter the site, and vlam ! what do I see ?
> Conspiration histories about terrorists attacks.
> Anti-Israel "pacifism" + links to Hozbollah web sites, Al-Manar TV.
> Anti-US/UK pacifism on Iraq + links to terrorist organisations operation in Iraq.
$1:
Others do so because they don't really know who he is
That sounds like usefull idiots, doesn't it ?
$1:
just that others with common goals(this case Peace) identify with him.
But Che has nothing to do with peace, he was a warrior !
So their goal is, just as I said, not peace, but socialism. You are arguing in my favor.
$1:
A quick Google finds this page with many links: Peace Orgs, I haven't bothered to check any of the links, but I'll bet that very few have any links to Communism, Che Guevera.
I don't care about the little websites that you "haven't bothered to check any of the links".
Tell me, sandorski, what organisations organises the most and the biggest "anti-war" marches in the West ? And what alternative they present for the current situation, where nasty Christian capitalists have taken controll of mother earth ?
Socialists is the 1st answer, socialism is the 2nd.
In fact, I'll bet that there are more links to Christian Orgs(thus negating my previous example link) than there are to Communist Orgs.
$1:
So is the Peace Movement now Christian?
It sure has has lots of mazoshist who-would-Jesus-bomb Chistians. Many Christian apologists are pacifists ; the catho church itself has became a head-in-sand anti-war organisation (but for reasons of intelectual comfort, not for the sole objective to promote the leftist dogmas).
The only problem with this argument is that anti-conservative values (therefor anti-Christian) is an integral part of the far-left rallying screams.
BartSimpson @ Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:46 pm
sandorski sandorski:
I have answered the question, but if you want more detail I'll give it.
Approx 10% of Americans identify themselves as Agnostic/Atheist. Does this mean that Americans are Agnostic/Atheist as a whole?
More specifically concerning Che Guevera(sp): I put to you to consider this: Not everyone who considers Che as a "hero" does so because of his Communist Idealism. They often do so out of admiration for his support of the Working Man. Others do so because they don't really know who he is, just that others with common goals(this case Peace) identify with him.
A quick Google finds this page with many links: Peace Orgs, I haven't bothered to check any of the links, but I'll bet that very few have any links to Communism, Che Guevera, or other [insert nonsensical generalization here]. In fact, I'll bet that there are more links to Christian Orgs(thus negating my previous example link) than there are to Communist Orgs. So is the Peace Movement now Christian?
Approx 10% of Americans identify themselves as Agnostic/Atheist. Does this mean that Americans are Agnostic/Atheist as a whole?
More specifically concerning Che Guevera(sp): I put to you to consider this: Not everyone who considers Che as a "hero" does so because of his Communist Idealism. They often do so out of admiration for his support of the Working Man. Others do so because they don't really know who he is, just that others with common goals(this case Peace) identify with him.
A quick Google finds this page with many links: Peace Orgs, I haven't bothered to check any of the links, but I'll bet that very few have any links to Communism, Che Guevera, or other [insert nonsensical generalization here]. In fact, I'll bet that there are more links to Christian Orgs(thus negating my previous example link) than there are to Communist Orgs. So is the Peace Movement now Christian?
Che Guevara was hardly a peace activist and anyone who thinks of him as one is an ass. Period.
BartSimpson @ Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:48 pm
DerbyX DerbyX:
Hitler was indeed a christian
Then I guess that's why he kept so many of the clergy in the concentration camps, because he was such a good Christian that he wanted to make sure they were kept safe.
Don't even get me started on how he demonstrated Christian charity with the gypsies and the Jews.
Durandal @ Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:53 pm
DerbyX,
you have talked about Hitler's articles, speeches, books, personnal beleifs and alleged lies.
I will do the same, and add atheism.
1) ARTICLES AND SPEECHES
You seem to have ignored this one :
« Le gouvernement aussi des Arabes en Espagne fut quelque chose d’infiniment distingué [...] Lorsque, plus tard, y vint le Christianisme, alors on peut dire : les barbares. [...] Si Charles Martel n’avait pas vaincu à Poitiers : puisque le monde juif s’est déjà emparé de nous – que le Christianisme est bien quelque chose de fade - nous aurions bien mieux encore reçu le Mahométisme, cette doctrine de la récompense de l’héroïsme : le combattant seul a le septième ciel ! Les Germains auraient avec cela conquis le monde, ce n’est que par le Christianisme que nous en avons été tenus éloignés. »
http://www.radioislam.org/hitler/islam.htm
Hardly the actions of a dedicated Christian or anti-muslim eh ?
2) MEIN KAMPF + PERSONAL BELEIFS
You talked of Hitler beleiving in heaven, hell, etc... this site will make it more clear about which heaven and hell he beleived in :
Koran-Mein Kampf comparasion / http://www.coranix.com/114/mein_korampf.htm
3) LIES
Hitler's mother was Jewish, but he made the world beleive that he was everything but at Jew and that all Jews must be eliminated.
In his marriages, when asked to swear that he was not a Jew (either ethnically or religiouslly) in front of a priest, he did so. Many times.
He lied all his life about his Jewishness, and yet you manage to say he could not have lied about his pseudo-christian faith. Your own links prouve he was not Christian (Jesus an Aryan -- WTF ???).
Nothing to add here.
4) ATHEISM AND EVOLUTION
See the role that atheism played in two of the most murderous ideologies of the history of mankind...
Les nazis et le darwinisme / http://www.dailymotion.com/tunisiano14/ ... darwinisme
Les fondements réels du communisme / http://www.dailymotion.com/tunisiano14/ ... communisme
Face the very unpretty truth :
To sum up, Hitler was just a crazy ass hole ...
> he loved Islam because it promises 72 virgins to the warriors and because Muslims (generally) hated the Jews, British and French.
> he loved evolutionism because it was revolutionary.
> he happened to be in a Christian country so he had to manage the Germans in a way that was not too disturbing for their faith (i-e try to marry Nazism and Christianism rather than simply eradicate the second).
DerbyX DerbyX:
There is a great myth about communism and atheism and its very telling that communism doesn't in any way promote atheism.
Soo much that Karl Marx dedicated his book The Capital to none other that Charles Darwin.
DerbyX @ Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:27 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Hitler was indeed a christian
Then I guess that's why he kept so many of the clergy in the concentration camps, because he was such a good Christian that he wanted to make sure they were kept safe.
Don't even get me started on how he demonstrated Christian charity with the gypsies and the Jews.
He put priests into concentration camps? So what. They were put there for political reasons and not religious reasons.
Anyone speaking out against his regime were targetted and the fact that some were christians is irrelevant. Hitler was and so were Hess, Himler, Goebbels, and Göring. They persecuted the jews because of their faith but not christians.
You speak as if anti-semitism hasn't been part and parcel to christianity but the unsightlytruth is that it has and still is as Mel seems to demonstrate.
Voyage of the Damned ring a bell? Jews were sent back to their deaths because they were jews and although most recoil in horror at the final solution the rabid anti-semetism of the time is no secret. European colonialism was characterized by incredible racism throughout its entire history and anti-Semitism was still such a worldwide problem in 1945 that postwar American Jews often changed their names to conceal their ethnicity and avoid persecution.
Tell me where was the christian charity during European colonization of the America's?
He was a devout christian. Get over it.
BartSimpson @ Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:48 pm
DerbyX DerbyX:
He was a devout christian. Get over it.
Then please show me any evidence whatsoever that he owned a Bible or ever quoted from Scripture, as would a devout Christian.
Also, Derby, your persecution of Christianity has been an ongoing theme on this forum the entire time I've been here.
Get over it.
DerbyX @ Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:00 pm
$1:
1) ARTICLES AND SPEECHES
You seem to have ignored this one :
You seem to have ignored this one :
You seem to have ignored these:
"It matters not whether these weapons of ours are humane: if they gain us our freedom, they are justified before our conscience and before our God" - Adolf Hitler.
"The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation."
"That this is possible may not be denied in a world where hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people voluntarily submit to celibacy, obligated and bound by nothing except the injunction of the Church. Should the same renunciation not be possible if this injunction is replaced by the admonition finally to put an end to the constant and continuous original sin of racial poisoning, and to give the Almighty Creator beings such as He Himself created?"
"It doesn't dawn on this depraved bourgeois world that this is positively a sin against all reason; that it is criminal lunacy to keep on drilling a born half-ape until people think they have made a lawyer out of him, while millions of members of the highest culture-race must remain in entirely unworthy positions; that it is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator if His most gifted beings by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands are allowed to degenerate in the present proletarian morass, while Hottentots and Zulu Kaffirs are trained for intellectual professions."
"It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god"
"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
I had so often sung 'Deutschland u:ber Alles' and shouted 'Heil' at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction."8 (the "divine court of the eternal judge" seems a rather strange idea from anyone but a Judeo-Christian, since Pagan and Eastern religions generally lack any such divine judgemental entity, to say nothing of atheism)
In fact you can quote just about all of Mein Kampf as christian fundementalism beliefs
You are ignoring the fact that The Nazis made it illegal to speak out against religion or the Christian churches. They closed all secular schools, and introduced school prayer and religious instruction in all educational institutions. They outlawed all free thought organizations.
Hardly the actions of an Atheist or Pagan.
Of course you are a desperate pathetic fool trying to say that Hitler was a muslims?????
Patrick was right about you.
All you are doing is the same thing the OSS did only you are attempting to blame the muslims.
Hitler believed in Heaven, Hell, a supreme being who created the universe, Jesus Christ, life after death, special creation, original sin, expulsion from paradise, and divine judgement.
Sounds like a christian to me. He isn't worshipping mohammed.
3) Lies: By your own logic he could have lied about all his so-called muslim beliefs also.
Your argument fails its own logic.
Evolution. You creationists have been trying to ascribe racism to evolution ever since its inception by using the worst strawman tactics imaginable.
Evolution & White Supremacy
Next you tie Atheism to communism but unfortunately for you is simply a "guilt-by-association" fallacy. Stalin didn't kill because of his Atheism. Stalin used his politics to displace and kill Orthodox Christians because of the fear that religions would threaten the intended worker-state. The Nazi's did the same thing. They killed and persecuted those that spoke out against them and threatened their regimes.
Hitler was a christian, of that there is nothing to disprove this fact.
Evolution has nothing to do with so-called "social Darwinism" or any mindless racists agenda's based on a poor understanding of its concepts. Evolution is simply an explanation to an observation as is the basis of all good science.