Lance Armstrong Banned for life.
Lemmy @ Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:32 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Lemmy Lemmy:
He killed that little girl just the same.
And yet there's no evidence to suggest he was.
DNA was from someone else but in your eyes, just the suggestion makes him a criminal.
First, yes there is evidence agianst him...lots and lots of evidence. Second, what does DNA evidence tell you? It speaks nothing about whether he strangled her or not. If I stangled you, would my DNA end up in your vagina?
Lemmy Lemmy:
First, yes there is evidence agianst him...lots and lots of evidence. Second, what does DNA evidence tell you? It speaks nothing about whether he strangled her or not. If I stangled you, would my DNA end up in your vagina?
What evidence?
DNA evidence tells you that someone was there, at the scene. There's none of that to indicate he was there or raped anyone.
A court and subsequent inquiry says so.
$1:
This Report ends where it started. An innocent person was convicted of a heinous crime he did not commit. Science helped convict him. Science exonerated him.
Now here's something that's interesting. The Sunday Province had an article about Lance Armstrong loosing his Tour De France titles and quess what. The people who would inherit his first place finishes were almost exclusively all banned for doping at one time or another.
So don't hold your breath about the Amaury Sport Organization stripping him of his Tour titles despite what the USADA does.
And here are the lucky recipients of Lances "alleged" transgressions:
$1:
Tour de France runners-up from 1999-2005:
1999: Alex Zulle - Zulle and his team were banned from the 1998 Tour de France due to doping allegations. Zulle admitted to using EPO ( Erythropoietin), but his 1999 finish has not been taken away.
2000, 2001, & 2003: Jan Ullrich - Ullrich was banned from the 2006 Tour amid doping speculations. Earlier in 2012, his 2005 third place title was stripped from him due to doping allegations.
2002: Joseba Beloki - In 2006, Beloki was linked to the Operación Puerto doping case; he was later cleared by Spanish officials.
2004: Andreas Kloden - There were doping allegations in 2009 against Kloden, claiming he used the Freiburg University Clinic for an illegal blood transfusion during the 2006 Tour de France . He was never convicted or punished.
2005: Ivan Basso - In 2007, Basso admitted plans for doping. He suffered a two-year suspension.
Should titles be stripped away from one man accused of doping to five new men who have each had their fair share of doping allegations?
As for the all-time win record, that will be split four ways. Before Armstrong broke the record, there was a four-way tie between Miguel Indurain, Bernard Hinault, Eddy Merckx, and Jacques Anquetil, each having five wins.
Lemmy @ Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:30 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Lemmy Lemmy:
First, yes there is evidence agianst him...lots and lots of evidence. Second, what does DNA evidence tell you? It speaks nothing about whether he strangled her or not. If I stangled you, would my DNA end up in your vagina?
What evidence?
DNA evidence tells you that someone was there, at the scene. There's none of that to indicate he was there or raped anyone.
A court and subsequent inquiry says so.
And they got it wrong. The Crown screwed up because they chose not introduce evidence that Jessop was sexually active, having consentual sex with a handful of neighborhood boys, including her stepbrother (The DNA found on her body was his, btw). The Crown felt it was better strategy to portray her as the "innocent young girl", but that backfired. Guy Paul Morin murdered her, but he didn't rape her, so of course, the DNA was not his. That doesn't mean he didn't kill her, which he absolutley did. Why didn't the York Region Police arrest someone else in the case? They had a DNA match. Because they know Morin did it.
The whole point here is that we've all become slaves to CSI. We think that scientific evidence trumps all others, which is a dangerous fallacy. Guy Paul Morin is guilty and so is Lance Armstrong. Well, actully I'll take that back on Armstrong because he's not charged with anything. He's a sports-cheat and we don't need CSI to make that determination.
Lemmy Lemmy:
And they got it wrong. The Crown screwed up because they chose not introduce evidence that Jessop was sexually active, having consentual sex with a handful of neighborhood boys, including her stepbrother (The DNA found on her body was his, btw). The Crown felt it was better strategy to portray her as the "innocent young girl", but that backfired. Guy Paul Morin murdered her, but he didn't rape her, so of course, the DNA was not his. That doesn't mean he didn't kill her, which he absolutley did. Why didn't the York Region Police arrest someone else in the case? They had a DNA match. Because they know Morin did it.
The whole point here is that we've all become slaves to CSI. We think that scientific evidence trumps all others, which is a dangerous fallacy. Guy Paul Morin is guilty and so is Lance Armstrong. Well, actully I'll take that back on Armstrong because he's not charged with anything. He's a sports-cheat and we don't need CSI to make that determination.
And that's all your opinion.
You think he killed her and yet there's no evidence or witnesses. So now, based on theories or hunch of an economist, we'll start putting people in jail for life.
Brilliant.
I hope for your sake you're never accused of anything....although it would be fun to watch you squirm under your own rules of how justice should be doled out.
Tricks @ Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:04 pm
Yogi Yogi:
EVERY person ( I won't use the word 'athlete', because they are not!) who uses any drugs to enhance their performance is an utter loser, and if caught, should be 'stripped and banned' for life.
They are no different than the student who cheats on all their assighnments and exams and then during graduation/commencement ceremonies, stand up on stage in front of the crowds, accepting the accolades for top honors, and crowing about how smart they are. When 'found out' should the phony student not also be stripped of all undeserved honors???
Oh really? I'm no fan of using performance enhancing drugs, but they still have to do the work to get the benefit. If you take roids and sit on your ass, they don't do all that much. So yeah it's cheating, but it still takes obscene amount of work to get to that level.
Yogi @ Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:58 pm
Tricks Tricks:
Yogi Yogi:
EVERY person ( I won't use the word 'athlete', because they are not!) who uses any drugs to enhance their performance is an utter loser, and if caught, should be 'stripped and banned' for life.
They are no different than the student who cheats on all their assighnments and exams and then during graduation/commencement ceremonies, stand up on stage in front of the crowds, accepting the accolades for top honors, and crowing about how smart they are. When 'found out' should the phony student not also be stripped of all undeserved honors???
Oh really? I'm no fan of using performance enhancing drugs, but they still have to do the work to get the benefit. If you take roids and sit on your ass, they don't do all that much. So yeah it's cheating, but it still takes obscene amount of work to get to that level.
Do 'your roids' give your athlete
ANY EDGE, regardless of how minor it may be, that they did not attain thru exercise and diet alone?
Tricks @ Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:43 pm
Yogi Yogi:
Tricks Tricks:
Yogi Yogi:
EVERY person ( I won't use the word 'athlete', because they are not!) who uses any drugs to enhance their performance is an utter loser, and if caught, should be 'stripped and banned' for life.
They are no different than the student who cheats on all their assighnments and exams and then during graduation/commencement ceremonies, stand up on stage in front of the crowds, accepting the accolades for top honors, and crowing about how smart they are. When 'found out' should the phony student not also be stripped of all undeserved honors???
Oh really? I'm no fan of using performance enhancing drugs, but they still have to do the work to get the benefit. If you take roids and sit on your ass, they don't do all that much. So yeah it's cheating, but it still takes obscene amount of work to get to that level.
Do 'your roids' give your athlete
ANY EDGE, regardless of how minor it may be, that they did not attain thru exercise and diet alone?
I'm not sure what your asking. If you asking whether or not it would give them an edge over not drug using athletes, yes of course it does. If you're asking does it mean they can train less, no it doesn't. They train the same and just as hard, but use the drugs to reap more benefit from it. I'm not stating it isn't cheating by any stretch, but to say they aren't athletes or it's the same as cheating on a test is a bit far. They still have to work harder that 99.9% of the world in their chosen field.
Yogi @ Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:05 pm
Tricks Tricks:
Yogi Yogi:
Tricks Tricks:
i]EVERY[/i] person ( I won't use the word 'athlete', because they are not!) who uses any drugs to enhance their performance is an utter loser, and if caught, should be 'stripped and banned' for life.
They are no different than the student who cheats on all their assighnments and exams and then during graduation/commencement ceremonies, stand up on stage in front of the crowds, accepting the accolades for top honors, and crowing about how smart they are. When 'found out' should the phony student not also be stripped of all undeserved honors???
Oh really? I'm no fan of using performance enhancing drugs, but they still have to do the work to get the benefit. If you take roids and sit on your ass, they don't do all that much. So yeah it's cheating, but it still takes obscene amount of work to get to that level.
Do 'your roids' give your athlete
ANY EDGE, regardless of how minor it may be, that they did not attain thru exercise and diet alone?
I'm not sure what your asking. If you asking whether or not it would give them an edge over not drug using athletes, yes of course it does. If you're asking does it mean they can train less, no it doesn't. They train the same and just as hard, but use the drugs to reap more benefit from it. I'm not stating it isn't cheating by any stretch, but to say they aren't athletes or it's the same as cheating on a test is a bit far. They still have to work harder that 99.9% of the world in their chosen field.[/quote]FAIL!
Lemmy @ Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:11 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
And that's all your opinion.
Yes and no. Yes, that's my opinion, but it's my opinion based on what's been shared with me by people on the York Region Police.
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
You think he killed her and yet there's no evidence or witnesses. So now, based on theories or hunch of an economist, we'll start putting people in jail for life.
I don't think he killed her. I know it. There are reams of evidence and you know it.
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Brilliant.
I hope for your sake you're never accused of anything....although it would be fun to watch you squirm under your own rules of how justice should be doled out.
You whack away the evenings imagining me in a prison setting, with my shirt-sleeves rolled up to reveal my biceps.
Lemmy Lemmy:
I don't think he killed her. I know it. There are reams of evidence and you know it.
You know everything. We know that.
The Professor is never wrong and his opinion is that of God.
Lemmy Lemmy:
You whack away the evenings imagining me in a prison setting, with my shirt-sleeves rolled up to reveal my biceps.
Odd that you'd take that comment and run in that direction. Says a lot.
Lemmy @ Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:49 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
You know everything. We know that.
The Professor is never wrong and his opinion is that of God.
A quarter-filled glass appears to contain a lot of liquid, from the perspective of the empty cup.
Lemmy Lemmy:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
You know everything. We know that.
The Professor is never wrong and his opinion is that of God.
A quarter-filled glass appears to contain a lot of liquid, from the perspective of the empty cup.
That's right, keep talking down to people.
That's what you do best, Professor.
Lemmy @ Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:39 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
That's right, keep talking down to people.
That's what you do best, Professor.
I was just joking with you and now you've gone and hurt my feelings, meanie. I guess I'll just sit here and cry a bit.